Important Ruling on In Cab Laptops pending

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
For expedite wannabees reading this who have not driven a truck before, I'll share that while Diane and I consider GPS navigation devices to be essential equipment, (we use a laptop and GPS programs), we do not rely on them to drive.

While they can be helpful, you do not need them to enter the industry. In fact, you might want to drive a while before committing to a device. You will know your needs better then.

With every run, we write the routing and local directions on a piece of paper, a steno pad actually, and keep it sitting on the dashboard. Routing and locals come to us from our carrier via the Qualcomm unit in the truck. We map trace those on our computer mapping programs and decide on the route we will use. The route is then written in the steno pad and placed on the dash.

We seldom plug the GPS antenna into the laptop, which would show our real-time location on a map on the laptop display. The laptop stays in the sleeper most of the time. If we become hopelessly lost (a rare event) we will stop and fire up GPS to determine our location. But that seldom happens.

We do not trust these devices enough to rely on them. Even Qualcomm fails from time to time. Knowing our route ahead of time and having a notebook to refer to works well for us. Heck, there are even times when we use a paper map to get from point A to point B.

I have grown past the point of buying into technology for technology sake. It's not about what the latest gizmo will do, it's about what you need technology to do for YOU. Whether you find it on a paper atlas, laptop map, or dash-mounted GPS screen, the road junction is at the same place on the ground.

The geeks will cry out with rapidly spoken words, "But, but, but, if you get lost, you can quickly get back on route, and, and, and your GPS device can talk to you, and, and, and you can zoom in your maps, and, and, and, you can play music on your device, and, and, and, you can pinpoint an address, and, and, and, you can go online and see a satellite photo of it, and, and, and you can see web pages on it, and, and, and you can display photos on it, and, and, and, you can multi-task while driving, and, and, and your productivity will improve, and, and, and you'll be COOL!"

My reply to these feature creeps is, "So what?" The landfills are overflowing with devices for which the same enthusiasm was shown a few months and years ago.

Yes, I use these devices and have above average computer skills. But the more technology changes, the more impressed I become with the reliability, cost and ease a pencil and paper provides.

The materials cost little. That format has not changed in 1,000 years, it does not require batteries, and it is its own storage device. Things written 1,000 years ago can be easily accessed today and you don't have to boot them up to read them.
 

Scuba

Veteran Expediter
1.My computer stand is bolted to the floor so in a crash its safer than that window sticker of a garmen.
2. My program zooms in on its own when it gets close to a turn so there isn't any thing hard to find also I can enlarge the view to over 200% from default making the numbers of the roads up to 1/4 of an inch making them easy to read at a glance.
3. the color contrasts so at night there isn't any bright light to mess with my night vision do the garmens do that?
4. It has voice to tell me when to turn if i don't want to look at it.
5. Every cop in the country has a laptop in their car which they use and type in while driving. Take notice the next time one is running on the side of you. They are inputting the dot number that is on the truck to check safety records for the company. How is it any safer for them.
6 This ruling if it bans them should also ban ALL gps devices and all truck video monitors like US Xpress used lets throw all of the bath water out.
7. Notice how they are only looking to ban them in trucks not cars how many cars pass you in a day that are doing the same thing but truckers are being singled out.
8. To say they should be banned because some people may watch a movie on them is no difference than saying all trucks should be governed to 55 mph so no one can speed in 55 mph states lets just keep letting the government take and take from us.
9. Going back to maps isn’t any better of an option how many of you guys pulled over to look at the map? I bet the number of people that did that is very small. Most people read the map while driving that is a fact deny it all you want. And that takes your eyes off of the road a lot longer than a glance at the 17 inch screen.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
We use a laptop GPS system. It has been a great tool. We input our routing, check it against routing supplied by our carrier, check it all on our atlas and run that. It has saved us money. When locals are bad, we find the place using less fuel. They are tools, nothing else. Used wrong, they are dangerous. Used right, they do the job. I worked on the GPS system when being developed. Keep one thing in mind, no matter how your use the sytem, laptop or stand alone. It is not a toy built with you in mind. It was and still is a military system. It is used for targeting, location finding etc. FOR TROOPS!! They have in the past, and most likely will in the future, encrypt the singnal. That will render ALL systems useles.
You should always have the proper maps etc. Layoutshooter
 

CharlesD

Expert Expediter
For expedite wannabees reading this who have not driven a truck before, I'll share that while Diane and I consider GPS navigation devices to be essential equipment, (we use a laptop and GPS programs), we do not rely on them to drive.

While they can be helpful, you do not need them to enter the industry. In fact, you might want to drive a while before committing to a device. You will know your needs better then.

With every run, we write the routing and local directions on a piece of paper, a steno pad actually, and keep it sitting on the dashboard. Routing and locals come to us from our carrier via the Qualcomm unit in the truck. We map trace those on our computer mapping programs and decide on the route we will use. The route is then written in the steno pad and placed on the dash.

We seldom plug the GPS antenna into the laptop, which would show our real-time location on a map on the laptop display. The laptop stays in the sleeper most of the time. If we become hopelessly lost (a rare event) we will stop and fire up GPS to determine our location. But that seldom happens.

We do not trust these devices enough to rely on them. Even Qualcomm fails from time to time. Knowing our route ahead of time and having a notebook to refer to works well for us. Heck, there are even times when we use a paper map to get from point A to point B.

I have grown past the point of buying into technology for technology sake. It's not about what the latest gizmo will do, it's about what you need technology to do for YOU. Whether you find it on a paper atlas, laptop map, or dash-mounted GPS screen, the road junction is at the same place on the ground.

The geeks will cry out with rapidly spoken words, "But, but, but, if you get lost, you can quickly get back on route, and, and, and your GPS device can talk to you, and, and, and you can zoom in your maps, and, and, and, you can play music on your device, and, and, and, you can pinpoint an address, and, and, and, you can go online and see a satellite photo of it, and, and, and you can see web pages on it, and, and, and you can display photos on it, and, and, and, you can multi-task while driving, and, and, and your productivity will improve, and, and, and you'll be COOL!"

My reply to these feature creeps is, "So what?" The landfills are overflowing with devices for which the same enthusiasm was shown a few months and years ago.

Yes, I use these devices and have above average computer skills. But the more technology changes, the more impressed I become with the reliability, cost and ease a pencil and paper provides.

The materials cost little. That format has not changed in 1,000 years, it does not require batteries, and it is its own storage device. Things written 1,000 years ago can be easily accessed today and you don't have to boot them up to read them.

Amen. I couldn't have said it better myself.
 

pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
Things written 1,000 years ago can be easily accessed today and you don't have to boot them up to read them.

I have to agree as well. Ever since our family has had a digital camera, there have been no new photos in our house, they're all on the computer, rarely looked at, while the old fashioned kind are easily accessible. I tell myself that 'someday' I will get some prints made, but that day seems to never come.

As well, I'm not the greatest at navigating unless I know exactly where'd I'm going, from say, a map. But when I use the GPS, it just takes me there. While some might like this, for me I would rather map my way, and it will stay with me forever, whereas I would never find my way again to a place the GPS guided me to.

To me, it's kind of like what Turtle was talking about when he was talking about learning to do math manually before using a calculator. Then again, perhaps I'm just getting old, and the old fashioned way of doing things is looking better and better to me :)
 

TeamCaffee

Administrator
Staff member
Owner/Operator
We found just the opposite of Phil and Diane on why we enjoy our GPS so much. We first tried just the map and writing the route on a piece of paper. Works great till you have a detour. I am more timid then Bob while going through large cities and when we first started the fear I felt was very real, if one little thing went wrong I was calling for help on getting me back on track. If there was a decision to make on changing interstates even with my piece of paper I would do the wrong thing. We then tried the laptop and I just never could get the hang of looking at the screen and back to the road. We do the same thing now except we do not write the route out we compare our route plan to our computer and also to the directions on the GPS and if we need to deviate where that will happen as we know the GPS will recalculate our route. Once I got used to looking at the GPS and watching ahead to when I would need to turn and what lane I needed to be in the GPS took a load of fear off my shoulders. When I have to do a detour off of the interstate we are on I do not panic and even better I do not need to wake Bob up I can handle it and not panic. If our GPS breaks we will be purchasing another one as the GPS has just become one of gauges that we scan often.
 

Scuba

Veteran Expediter
People keep saying laptop on the dash. Why would anyone want it there it blocks the windshield. A properly mounted laptop sits just below the dash and in line with the fender mirror. That way its a short glance down. Do you people that wine about looking at it just stare out the windshield? If you are you are more dangerous than the person that is glancing around. If your eyes aren't moving you end up fixating on a spot out of the windshield and you miss what’s happening around you. God I hope I don't drive around you
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I NEVER "wine" when driving, only when dinning!!! I try not to whine the rest of the time. LOL, soooo sorry, could not resist that one. I can be a real meany sometimes!!! Sure hope no one ever looks at my spelling!!! Layoutshooter
 

juliewray60

Not a Member
ford-navigator-med-01.jpg

In a best case senario a laptop
mount would be in above pictured
position. Possibly could be raised
a little but too much screen
interferring with view.
But this kinda mount you must take
your eyes off road to view. And
i cant imagine entering text via
the keyboard and driving.

sg0n5g.jpg

The above gps mount is probably
the closest thing youd get to an
aircraft or military mounting position.
You can view the screen and never
lose the sight of your traffic lane.
You could also enter text without
ever losing sight of whats ahead of
you.


Used carrier atlas for 15
years. Used laptop for 3
years.Have owned a windshield
mounted gps for 6 months.

Id never consider using anything
else but a standalone gps.
 

nightcreacher

Veteran Expediter
with the voice comands of the gps,why do you have to watch it,my garmin,streets and trips and the sprint navigation in my phone all tell me what to do,just like having a dispatcher in your truck,of which none know that you wont fit under a 9' tall bridge
 

pelicn

Veteran Expediter
Streets and Trips...Motor Carriers atlas and a good co-driver to help out. :)

To heck with all the GPS stuff, I just want a cell phone (without a camera, or keyboard or internet or email or address book etc....) that makes a phone call! :rolleyes:
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
"While they can be helpful, you do not need them to enter the industry. In fact, you might want to drive a while before committing to a device."

I understand the reason behind this comment but I think it is wrong.

Many of us live in a ‘Just In Time’ world and proper directions are critical. Taking 15 minutes out to locate the place before you roll away form the shipper is the smart thing to do.



The best that one can do is to learn how to use all the tools that they can afford and use them often. By telling some newbie not to use the tools that are available, it short changes them in their learning curve of this business of being on the road as a profession.

Also just as I am thinking about it, the gadget thing has to go. These are tools people, not toys. You may spend $300 on an Xbox for your truck but again you may spend $800 on software to route you like a real truck. Tools matter, toys don’t. The key is to learn each of them and have fall backs if one fails so you can still use another – being prepared is a key. I am not saying one has to spend a fortune but invest in some good maps, learn how to read them if you can, invest in a PC program or a standalone GPS system and learn how to use them. Don’t fret about device failure or anything like that. Embrace technology to make your job easier which will make it safer.

It is a very good habit to write things down, to make sure that you can read them and to be consistent with your directions so not to confuse yourself later on. I also think referring to the written directions is the best way to go but there is no reason why the 5 to 15 minutes of prep work before you roll on mapping and directions should not take place with every available tool one can afford.

The standalone GPS units are easy to learn and make a great primary tool. I don’t own one, I used a bunch of them last year and one prototype this year which was poorly designed but still made it to the market. You can buy the relatively cheap and updates are easy to install in some of them. If my father can use one, anyone can.

The PC/MAC programs are also very good but Streets and Trips for one lacks a few things like proper updating capabilities and the ability to have real points of interest (PoIs) put into the data base not as push pins but as real PoIs. I have three different programs on my laptop, two I reviewed and were given in the process and they seem to be all about the same but not all three are prefect. Yesterday I had a chance to test out all three on a new industrial complex, only one found it and that was Promiles XF kingpin.

The other thing that I also use, speaking of PC/MAC stuff is my trusty cr*ppy AT&T aircard and on line maps, I usually save them to a PDF file to keep just in case if nothing else works. BUT I have been finding out that Google Earth has actually helped me in where the docks are at some locations and what entrance to use – look for the trucks. This was helpful at one of my regular pickups in Detroit, all the mapping software/online maps put the pickup address in the middle of I94 but Google earth showed me where it is and how to get into it easily.

With this good ol’ map idea, the problem is not everyone can read or even learn to read a map. Some like my wife and I have a couple friends who are well educated, they can get lost with simple maps, they can’t read a map to save them. I don’t have to assume this with some in the expediting world, I have helped out a few who were clueless on reading a map, even one with turn by turn directions printed in big bold letters. One I led to his pickup in my truck because he kept getting lost, no reward from FedEx for that one. Some people have no sense of direction, even if they know that the sign says north, they still get confused.

I keep my handy 2005 atlas (should have bought the new 2008 when it was on sale for $5 at Loves the other day but being as busy as I was….) and this helps me with restricted roads and low clearances. I have the NYC maps (thanks Phil) and I have my AAA collection of mid-west/east coast city maps somewhere just in case (thanks AAA).

But another serious problem is that there is an assumption that the dispatcher can tell you directions, some can a lot can’t. I never depended on any dispatched directions except for Hazmat routing and I always double checked that. The reason for this is the dispatcher sometimes is clueless on how to give directions, especially if they do the Map Quest thing.

One thing that I find interesting in giving advice is that many live with one company and become comfortable with the QC directions. Not all of us work like that, I don’t get any directions now and when I started out I didn’t either, but in between I did and they were not always the best.

By the way the best solution I am finding is calling ahead (or when I get loaded) to find exact directions but keep in mind that it also means you got to know how to ask for directions, like what are the nearest cross streets, etc….

Layout, I thought Clinton opened up the P Code signals to the public in the 90's for things like IFR non-precision instrument landings. They still have encrypted P code signals or I think they do. You know that the military sold a number of GPS units to one of our European NATO friends and they sold those units on the open market when they upgraded their communications systems?
 

iceroadtrucker

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Well the same people that will make the ruling are the ones cutting our throats any way.

Personaly I found THe GPS Computer Nav a very big help in big cities like NY or Low Bridges King of Prushia PA ect. Or up in Boston for that matter.

THis whole thing on Picking on Truckers is a bunch of Crap.
Its about time to clean out the Barn and the Hog House and then while were at it the Hog yard and Cattle Yard and after that lets realy get down to business and check out the Hen house and clean it out as well. As the Crap is realy getting deep and is realy begining to stink. Leave The Truckers alone !!!!!
What more do they want to do to us??? Raised the Prince of Fuel so we about cant make a living, Hit us with dumb rules and Regulations and this and that. Now they want to take our uptodate Nav Equipment away because some nice nuckel head in Ca was watching a rerun movie on Chips which showed a Driver of a Truck watching TV while going down the Road. Give me a break. Your all Joking Surely!!!!!!
If by case and chance your not, THis should be the last straw that broke the camels back so to speak. Whats next our CB Radios as well oh well have to buy license in every state to use them as well. HMMM
I wonder Sounds like more and more every day comminsum at its finest taking place.
Sorry but this is just so crazy.:mad:
 

pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
"While they can be helpful, you do not need them to enter the industry. In fact, you might want to drive a while before committing to a device."

I understand the reason behind this comment but I think it is wrong.

Many of us live in a ‘Just In Time’ world and proper directions are critical. Taking 15 minutes out to locate the place before you roll away form the shipper is the smart thing to do.

The best that one can do is to learn how to use all the tools that they can afford and use them often. By telling some newbie not to use the tools that are available, it short changes them in their learning curve of this business of being on the road as a profession.

Hindsight is great, but we would've loved to have heeded Phil's advice when husb was getting into this biz. We definitely wouldn't have chosen the one we did. We didn't realize all the different options available at the time. We hadn't yet discovered this site, unfortunately. It's an expensive mistake to make!
 
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iceroadtrucker

Veteran Expediter
Driver
The only mistake I can see right now is some one running out and buy an Truck with the price of Fuel sky rocketing and the Freight rate droping and already were seeing the big carriers getting scrunched big time just a matter of time and were right in the line for the pickens so to speak.

Look US EXPRESS all there trucks got those moniter on the dash with GPS and All that. HMM not to good for them either.
Like I said they keep Taking from us little by little soon we wont be the Modern Cowboys Cow Girls so to speak no more.

The FED Giveith the FED Takeith.:mad:

:mad:
 
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curto018

Seasoned Expediter
Greg, i tried your advice when i started expediting last year, don't need a gps system, i can read maps pretty well. drove a semi for a few years w/ a local carrier, never got lost even though the dispatchers directions sometimes were god awful!!
1st day, ran my dedicated run up to chicago, already had addresses and maps printed of the three stops for the run, no problems... this business will be easy!! wrong!! dispatch calls with a load going to michigan, gives me the pick and drop addresses. i ask for directions, he pretty much laughed! what directions?? they don't have any!! i got it done, but as soon as i got home, i bought me a tomtom, i lasted one day in the expedited business without a gps unit. best investment i've made in a while, very accurate except for a place in mt. vernon IN, was a couple miles off!!
i will say though, i did find it somewhat distracting upon my windshield, always found myself staring at it for no reason. so i moved down next to my cup holders on my console (cargo van), still gets good enough signal to keep up and work properly. will say that i hardly ever use the voice directions, they get very annoying very quickly!! especially when you know a short cut and stupid thing keeps telling you to turn around a dozen times until it figures out what you're doing.
i still keep my atlas in the van, but decided i wasn't going to buy maps of every little town/city i go to especially when i don't get any directions so start with, since they still may not help out enough.
just my two cents worth, since two cents isn't worth much anymore!!
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Since alot of these GPS are bouncing off partially used military satelite space, so Ive read...wonder if we ever have a REAL war and they restrict or deny access to them...GPS's become dead in the water...millions of cars bumping into each other driving in circles with mindless droids at the wheel...
 

always confused

Seasoned Expediter
if the average car driver can drive while reading a book, putting on makeup, talking on phone, beating the kids, playing with the dog in their lap... i don't see why a professional driver can't use a computer/gps to help them navigate..... probably makes them safer because they aren't wandering around lost, making uturns in driveways, running accross meadians, and going the wrong way on one way streets.... not that any of those things would be done by a professional driver......
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
if the average car driver can drive while reading a book, putting on makeup, talking on phone, beating the kids, playing with the dog in their lap... i don't see why a professional driver can't use a computer/gps to help them navigate..... probably makes them safer because they aren't wandering around lost, making uturns in driveways, running accross meadians, and going the wrong way on one way streets.... not that any of those things would be done by a professional driver......

Now your describing the realtime Panther van driver!!!!
 
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