Imam Rauf: Moving Mosque Location Threatens Our National Security

[Turtle]

Where in the bible does it say we must act as the perceived enemies of any religion, burn their temples of worship, burn their holy books, kill their followers?

Deuteronomy, 13:13-19
That wicked men are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again. And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and shew thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers; When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.


Deuteronomy, 17:2-3,5
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; ... Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

 

[greg334]

NO NO NO not getting away with that Turtle!

I am talking about new testament stuff, the Jesus loves you stuff.

If we consider those as part of the need to destroy, burn and kill, then it works with any three of the Abrahamic religions - Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

 

[Turtle]

NO NO NO not getting away with that Turtle!

I am talking about new testament stuff, the Jesus loves you stuff.

If we consider those as part of the need to destroy, burn and kill, then it works with any three of the Abrahamic religions - Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

Yes, it does. Ironic, isn't it?

Jesus was a big fan of the Old Testament, thoroughly approving of the Old Testament, its laws and the prophets.

Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

So in Jesus' own words, the Old Testament is part and parcel, and is not to be dismissed, but should be fulfilled.


In Luke 19:27, he also says...
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

In effect, Worship me, or else. Or else being my worshipers will hunt you down and kill you. So there.

 

[Poorboy]

They said on the radio the Martians have landed in Grover's Mill but that was kind of wrong.

Was it wrong? Look at what we have for politicians

 

[RLENT]

Aristotle,

RLENT... why do you waste all this personal invective and scorn toward Pilgrim when you know full well he placed you on his IGNORE LIST several months ago?

Well, first: actually, I don't know it - full well, or otherwise (since knowing implies certainty) ..... as far as I know I never received any notification of it, unless Pilgrim just happened to mention his intention to do so ...

Is there some EO mechanism whereby a member is notified when he is placed on someone's ignore list ?

Secondly, I make no automatic assumption that anything that I write (or what anyone else writes for that matter) is "a waste" .... obviously you read it, and I suspect that others may have as well.

Third, if your assumption is that whatever I write in response to what someone else has posted, is for consumption only by that particular party, you would be incorrect.

In many instances (but not all) it makes no difference whatsoever to me, whether the individual I'm responding to reads what I write or not .... I'm not communicating only to a single individual via PM ..... in an open forum there is a wider audience you know.

He cannot see what you write nor respond to it.

Well, his loss I suppose ....

Like I said - makes no difference to me - if Pilgrim chooses to do the functional equivalent of holding his hands over his ears and uttering "Nana-nana-boo-boo" ..... like my children used to do when they were little, then it's certainly his right and choice ..... I'm not attempting to enforce my communication on him - he is free to read what I write - or not - at his pleasure.

Of course, the downside of not reading someone's response to what you have written is that one deprives oneself of the opportunity to respond and address any substantive points raised - and thereby leaving the position or argument undefended.

Can't say I blame him.

Oh I don't blame him - but I do reserve the right to hold him accountable for whatever he writes (by commenting on it) ..... if I so choose ....

Bullying is most repugnant.

Do you really think so little of Pilgrim's intellect, personal strength, and ability to defend himself, to honestly believe that I could bully him ?

Quite honestly, I think you are selling him a little short - in a number of instances I have found him to be, in some respects, a fairly worthy opponent.

 

[RLENT]

I Reported it the way it was reported on the radio, Nothing added and Nothing left out!

Poorboy,

My comments were only intended to clarify the actual facts of the matter - and were not meant to imply that you intentionally misrepresented things. It's very real to me that something on radio or any media source might not be entirely accurate.

 

[RLENT]

Maybe me thinks you should take your fingers out of your ears. Most people including christians consider him a nut. EVEN HIS OWN CHURCH.

Sorry - I should have been more specific in what I wrote: my comment was not really directed at the reactions of general public - it was aimed largely at the EO community, Soapbox denziens specifically.

Thank you for link.

And your point is taken.

 

[Pilgrim]

Yes, it does. Ironic, isn't it?

Jesus was a big fan of the Old Testament, thoroughly approving of the Old Testament, its laws and the prophets.

Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

So in Jesus' own words, the Old Testament is part and parcel, and is not to be dismissed, but should be fulfilled.

But there are other interpretations:
Matthew 5:17-48 - Passage*Lookup - New International Version - BibleGateway.com

In Luke 19:27, he also says...
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

In effect, Worship me, or else. Or else being my worshipers will hunt you down and kill you. So there.

Really?? Read the entire parable (most of us will recognize this one):
Luke 19 - Passage*Lookup - New American Standard Bible - BibleGateway.com

It's easy to take Bible quotations out of context, especially when parables are involved.

 

[Pilgrim]

RLENT... why do you waste all this personal invective and scorn toward Pilgrim when you know full well he placed you on his IGNORE LIST several months ago? He cannot see what you write nor respond to it. Can't say I blame him. Bullying is most repugnant. The cult following never learns.

Aristotle - you quoted him in the blue box and now my eyes have been exposed once again to the vitriol that creates a lot of emotional turmoil that is for the most part without substance. I see nothing has changed - the crux of the retort is "since you don't agree with me, you're an ignorant redneck using mind altering drugs." No sense parsing the entirety of his BS since the message boils down to his opinion being superior to any others. However, in spite of my better judgement I feel it's necessary to respond to this incredible statement on behalf of all those of us who have worn the uniform:

QUOTING RLENT: "Maybe instead you and other like-minded individuals could all get together and do a traveling roadshow - you could lay in a supply of United States flags, copies of the Holy Bible, and then go visit each of the Founding Fathers graves.
When you get to each individual gravesite you could put a United States flag over the grave, and then place a Bible on the flag, and then you can all jointly take a dump on all three ..... grave, flag, and Bible ...."

This sounds exactly like the shrill tripe that came from the cowardly, stringy-haired punks that would hang out in airports during the 1970s and try to spit on the soldiers (from a safe distance of course) coming home from Viet Nam. Of course this sort of button-pushing could only come from an ignoramus incapable of making a substantive case for his position. Instead he thrives on making provocative ad hominem attacks, rubbing his clammy palms with glee after thinking up a series of personal insults that he would dare not say to someone in person. I invite all who frequent this forum to read the above statement again so there will be no question as to why I refuse to waste time attempting to engage this annoying pest in civil debate.

 

[Turtle]

It's easy to take Bible quotations out of context, especially when parables are involved.

Oh, you bet there is. People snatch snippets of the Bible and interpret them and use them however they want all the time, usually to make others think like them. Who's interpretation is correct? Yours? Terry Jones? Mine?

Context, in anything, whether it be the Bible or not, is extremely important (which is why I find it funny that you have quoted something out of context above when it suited your purpose, but aren't a big fan of it when it doesn't). I find it extremely ironic that the Word of God can be interpreted in so many different ways by so many people. Don't you?

The Bible in many different places tells you that it's not only OK, but actually demands that you kill non-followers of the Bible. Wacko will take that stuff out of context and use it for their own justifications. The Qur'an is exactly the same, where if taken out of context it says kill the infidels, but when taken in context it doesn't really say that at all. But many people, Christians in particular, don't want to mess with the context, since they aren't looking for context, but rather a justification for their feelings and beliefs. If people believe Muslims and Islam is evil, for example, then anything that Muslims do or say will immediately be interpreted as being evil, and will be placed in the context of evil. "The true colors of this guy continue to emerge," are the true colors in the context of evil that you want to be there. No matter what he says, you see an evil bent to it. For example...

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf said, "If we move from that location, the story will be that the radicals have taken over the discourse. The headlines in the Muslim world will be that Islam is under attack. The danger from the radicals in the Muslim world to our national security, to the national security of our troops . . . will be increasingly compromised if the radicals are strengthened. If you don't do this right, anger will explode in the Muslim world."

Fox News (Gretchen, anyway, but no one disagreed with her this morning) called that an outright threat, from him to us. Clearly, you agree. If it were a Christian or an atheist saying those same exact words, it wouldn't and couldn't be considered a threat. But because they are coming from a Muslim (and all Muslims are evil and think the same way), it's a threat.

Fact is, it's not a threat at all, it's merely telling you how radical Muslims think and how they will react to certain things.

 

[greg334]

It depends on who you are - looking inside from the outside or looking outside from the inside.

I think victimism is also a real religion that has been created to make people like they are part of something or allow them to justify being empty in their lives.

 

[LDB]

The guy in Fla. is a total idiot and probably also narcissistic just like some of the people who post on EO.

 

[greg334]

Who could that be?

 

[Turtle]

The guy in Fla. is a total idiot and probably also narcissistic just like some of the people who post on EO.

He's a man of God, a Christian, same as all the other Christians. He represents what Christians are all about. Doesn't he? Or are there some Christians who aren't wacko crazy and not as extreme as this guy?

 

[Pilgrim]

Just for the sake of argument: it was, and still is his constitutional right to burn Korans - freedom of speech, and all that good stuff just like the people who burn the American flag, Bibles, Geo. Bush in effegy, etc. However, after the public outcry he relented and agreed to a compromised plan of action having come to the conclusion it wasn't the proper thing to do even though he had every right to do it. He could very easily have said that he couldn't change his mind because his religion wouldn't allow it, Christianity is under attack and the KKK and other white supremacy groups might take retribution against muslims all over the country. From the way he defused the situation, he sounds like a pretty reasonable guy

 

[RLENT]

From the way he defused the situation, he sounds like a pretty reasonable guy

My bet is that Gates told him during the phone call that unless he changed his tune, he was gonna either:

A. provide an all expense paid vacation to Kabul (with rural day-trip to the hinterlands), or

B. waterboard him, or

C. send him to Guantanamo and let his new cellmate Abdul make him his bee-otch .....

 

[RLENT]

From the way he defused the situation, he sounds like a pretty reasonable guy

Of course, the flip side to this is, is that said retard is the doofus which created the entire situation in the first place ....... so ....

Rev. Retard = Reasonable = CLASSIC FAIL

 

[xiggi]

The Koran burn guy is nothing but a nut case. Even people in his own family said he is running a cult. He has a whopping 50 followers, the real shame was that he was given any air time at all.

 

[Turtle]

The Koran burn guy is nothing but a nut case. Even people in his own family said he is running a cult. He has a whopping 50 followers, the real shame was that he was given any air time at all.

Muhammad started off with four followers.
Jesus with twelve.
Fifty is a lot.

 

[xiggi]

Muhammad started off with four followers.
Jesus with twelve.
Fifty is a lot.

How many people were on earth then compared to now. They were both teaching something new. This guy is supposed to be teaching the christian faith. I know what your getting at but comparing a few then to 50 now I am not sure how that would work out.