Im lost

skoalman315 · Dec 5, 2007

I stoped in the yard in oh good to see 40 more trucks signing on to panther. Just what we need more trucks "yeah rite!" I just cant figure it out. If you were to put my miles on a graph for the year it looks like a stair case going down down down. I have increased my time out on road. I have turned it up a notch when it comes to how far i will deadhead for a load. I have decreased what i used for average a load needs to pay just to keep moveing. Seems like backhaul is my only haul anymore. And forget about talking to panther they do not return calls. Thats when you can get threw to someone who is not a temp who will be gone in a week. Just about ready to hang it up!
O bye the way yes we run canada, yes we are haz mat, yes we run elite
and yes my numbers are good ontime 100, inservice 100, aceptance 80. 2 year at panther

fortwayne · Dec 5, 2007

Don't panic the week of Christmas they take a break and don't bring any driver on!
Of course they will follow that up with 50-100 in the two weeks afterwards.
They cover their freight - that is their job - they really don't care which driver makes the money as long as they keep enough around to cover their frieght.
That goes for any carrier - that's their job!

Fort Wayne
Like Is Good!

Tennesseahawk · Dec 5, 2007

Not ANY carrier. Just the greedy ones. There are some smaller companies who prefer to grow slowly, or not at all.

-A bore is a person who opens his mouth and puts his feats in it. - Henry Ford

grog111 · Dec 5, 2007

The only problem with that T-hawk is that in the long run,(if these are new trucks to the industry i mean), unless the smaller company has its own customer base, we all see just a few less runs and quite possibly lower paying runs during the spot bidding phase.

LDB · Dec 6, 2007

If there are 40 trucks going on, they are replacing the 38 who quit. I'd rather see only 36 replacing 38 who quit but I don't get to choose the signing numbers. I can tell you though that however many you see going on, they are mostly replacements not new.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB
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fortwayne · Dec 6, 2007

Leo -
We all know that expediting is not for everyone. Heck, as far as driving a truck, I am no longer doing that gig. But, my question to you is, why does it at least seem like Panther is one of those companies that has a full time training staff, just not recruiters, but an entire staff just to handle the training of new drivers and o/ops coming on board.
Sure there are alot of people that get into this thing and just can't handle it, some people just find out it is to much work, stressful, etc etc. But I find it hard to believe that it is always, week and week after week after month after month just the drivers and o/ops that are to blame for the outflux of people.
Is it possible that Panther (and some others) just lack 'something' as far as being able to keep people there, bringing on the right amount of people for the business flow, etc?
Just asking. And yes, while I do not drive anymore, I am still in trucking - and I am happy to discuss that with anyone via private messages, just not proper area to do it here.

Fort Wayne
Like Is Good!

davekc · Dec 6, 2007

Leo is correct. Most of what you see is replacement drivers for ones that left. From a percentage standpoint, they aren't doing any more or less than any other carrier. More trucks and a lot larger freight base is going to provide those numbers.
Big difference in comparing a 50 truck carrier or something to a 1500 truck carrier.

Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
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Tennesseahawk · Dec 6, 2007

I understand what you and Leo are saying, Dave. Yes, there's a big difference between a 50 and 1,500 truck company. But logic tells you not to build 5,000 cars when the economy calls for 1,000. It's a lot easier to keep 50 trucks loaded, vs 1,500. Human nature is that the big company tells itself to not worry about the "lower tier" of their trucks... we can afford to sit them.

By replacing those who leave, truck-for-truck, they're continuing to keep things at THEIR pace, and not the pace of the economy. Of course, it doesn't cost them much, as they profit slightly for their revolving door of equipment leaving/signing on.

Fortwayne... the volume of trucks leaving and signing with Panther is the normal ebb and flow of a downing economy. Most of the owners mentioned are looking for greener grass. Yet, they fail to realize is that for that class of 40 to sign on, 40 more trucks just like them were dissatisfied (most likely with freight volume). My guess is, within the next 3 months, they too will be dissatisfied and looking for another carrier; and another 40 trucks will come aboard to replace them.

Fact of the matter is: If these ppl keep looking for greener grass, they'll eventually fall off the cliff. If you're at a company where the dispatch knows your name, my advise is to STAY PUT and weather out the storm. You won't find any greener grass out here.

-A bore is a person who opens his mouth and puts his feats in it. - Henry Ford

ATeam · Dec 6, 2007

Expediter wannabees reading this thread should see red flags flying everywhere. Consider the numbers. 40 trucks a week to replace about the same number that left? Let's trim it down by half and say 20 trucks a week just to be conservative. 20 trucks a week times 50 weeks a year (two weeks off for Christmas) is a turn over of 1,000 trucks in a 1,500 truck fleet. Two out of three trucks will be someplace else a year from now.

A lot of the regulars here in the Open Forum have been with the same carrier (including Panther) for several years; some for many, many years. What does that make us? I don't know...maybe freaks?

Tennesseahawk · Dec 6, 2007

HOT DAMM Ateam, we finally agree!!! :7

I understand that sometimes you have to find a better fit. But when it's this slow, how are you going to know what a good fit is if ALL the companies are slow? Therefore, the majority of the crowd looking for greener grass will soon be looking in another industry.

-A bore is a person who opens his mouth and puts his feats in it. - Henry Ford

redytrk · Dec 6, 2007

ATA reported higher annual driver turnover rates for both large and small truckload carriers during the 2006 third quarter. Large truckload carrier line-haul driver turnover rose to 121% from 110% in the second quarter. Small truckload carrier turnover, meanwhile, jumped to 114% from 100%. Large truckload carriers generate at least $30 million in annual revenue.

panthercub · Dec 6, 2007

For what it's worth...

At orientation 2 months ago, we were told that 32% of the people who go thru Panther orientation will remain with Panther after 12 months. While that seemed staggeringly low to me at the time, they are PROUD of this statistic, saying it is nearly twice the industry average. So that backs up the 2/3 theory from above. Yeah, it's hard to sit out in the prairie somewhere for a day or two, and wonder why 50-100 drivers are added on each week, including adding me on two months ago. But I'm just trying to keep the faith and stick it out until I know for sure whether or not I can earn a living at this. Someone is doing it right, or they wouldn't still be out here...I hope.....

Daniel
Panther 12055

panthercub · Dec 6, 2007

To folow up on my own post....

If 2/3 of the work force is leaving, that means 50-100 drivers are added each week to replace the 30-60 who are leaving, again using the 2/3 theory. Maybe too literally, but still. That means there is the possibility that there are up to 40 ADDITIONAL drivers being added per week, not just replacements. Am I way off here?

Daniel
Panther 12055

guest · Dec 6, 2007

my opinion maybe I'm wrong but Why Have an IPO?
The obvious reason that any company has an IPO is to raise money. Why would a company need to raise money?
In the business world, there are as many reasons to raise money as you yourself might have. Think of a few of the reasons you might want to raise $1,000 -- to take a vacation, to pay for important surgery, to make repairs on your house, to invest in a business, or just to buy something you want. Businesses aren't that different, but they operate on a larger scale, and they have different needs and plans that require money. Some of more common reasons that a company might need money, or capital, include:

To buy new equipment or upgrade old equipment
To expand into a new region or a new kind of business
To pay back old debts (and avoid paying the interest on them)
As an "exit strategy" for the owner or original investors
To make the original owners and investors rich
Panther offering is 250 mil..what is worth 250 mil at Panther?

Tennesseahawk · Dec 6, 2007

If those numbers are accurate, I'd say yes. But to suggest they are adding that many on every orientation would put them at an extremely high growth. I just can't believe there are that many owners who think Panther is worth a shot vs those who are leaving. Maybe a couple orientations go that way, offset with some that are much slower. That's my guess.

Just got the numbers from our recruiter/safety/decal guy, Mark. Out of 85 drivers/ O/Os currently there, this is the breakdown of how long everyone's been with C&M.
3-10 years -36
2-3 years -9
1-2 years -19

From what I see, the numbers for a successful smaller company makes a large company with 100%+ turnover look like they don't know what they're doing. But I know the bigger ones know EXACTLY what they're doing. Just not always to the driver/ O/O's benefit.

-A bore is a person who opens his mouth and puts his feats in it. - Henry Ford

LDB · Dec 6, 2007

The people at Panther who do the training during orientation also do other jobs. Yes, they are "the ones" who do the orientation but you don't see them in there every minute. That's because one also has a job in safety, one has a job in Canadian operations and I don't know about the others. Each company I know about, admittedly a small number, have a core staff who handle the orientation training plus additional duties and responsibilities.

No, the numbers are wrong re: the 2/3 meaning that if there are 65 replacements there are also 35 new out of 100. In tractors, 3/4 of solo drivers are gone within 45 days. They don't stay long enough to learn the system or good spots or anything before jumping ship. That means a solo tractor could have several drivers in one year. Extend that and you could have over a dozen replacements in the 3 trucks while the fourth guy is the one who stays for over a year. It boils down to almost everyone in orientation being replacements with many turning more than once a year thereby offsetting the 1/3 or so who stay a year or more.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB
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Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
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butterfly610 · Dec 6, 2007

We've been running kinda slow lately. One good thing is even when we have a slow week, I have to remind myself we're still making more money then we would with a regular job working lots of hours. I would rather be on the go...but I guess it's just slow right now. I know there are lots of people that quit right when they start, so I'm sure some of the people getting hired are definately replacing people who quit. The only problem I've had lately is that I've been encountering some pretty rude dispatchers. I never had this problem before, but lately there's been quite a few instances of it happening. I don't talk back to them even when they're rude, so I don't see why they are being that way. I know they are busy and put up with a lot, but it's just hard when you're out on the road for a month at a time, and you have someone with no clue about what its like, treating you badly. I get frustrated but still like doing this. One of the hardest things for me is that when they want you to answer them and do what they expect immmediately, but when you need their help or an answer right away regarding a load or something, it seems that they will drag their feet and sometimes not help you. Not always, but sometimes. There are some really nice dispatchers that are really helpful too. They seem to be the ones that have been there longer. Anyway...that's the only problem we've been having lately.

panthercub · Dec 6, 2007

No doubt in my mind that the company knows exactly what they are doing. And I don't blame them one bit for trying to do things that benefit them. I just hope they are also considering how their decisions affect the operators who haul their freight.

Daniel
Panther 12055

FIS53 · Dec 6, 2007

Well 610 you've hit it on the head. Your still running and making money. Maybe not as much as you would like but still.

Re rude dispatchers well that happens a bit at bigger companies when the slow times hit as quite a few drivers are calling and asking for redirect to a freight lane that's moving and how cum their 5th up when normally in that area their 2nd up etc. Some are asking for van frieght just to keep moving and the vans are asking for anything!
Remember that when it's busy no one calls dispatch too much as their rolling and making a buck and don't have time to worry about sitting too long and can count on being out of an area in a day. Now it's like 3 days and only 2 guys have moved off the board out of 10. Now you have 6 of those 8 left calling and getting on dispatches #####.

And yes the grass can be greener on the other side of the hill. I made two moves over 3 years ago and each one was better. I increased my income, do less handbombing and am appreciated!! Bosses don't always love me but I perform and they know it and so I keep making money. Secret is don't pissoff dispatch too much, bail them out if you can without too much trouble (read that as not really losing your butt too badly) and make sure your available and able to do whenever however (if possible). Now for me the smaller outfit has paid off better than the biggie one.
Everyone has to find their own fit with a company, some take a few tries. So what works at one may not work perfectly at another. So enjoy the job and work out the problems.
Rob