If You Don't Know Michelle Malkin....

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Sorry, but I'd rather see someone a bit younger;
Sure .... who wouldn't ?

However, I would submit to you that operating on the basis of selecting the lesser evil, the substitute, imposter, the insider, the one who is part and parcel of the "party machine" ..... has brought us exactly what ?

and that's coming from someone who mostly agrees with Paul.
You have to do what you see fit as your conscience dictates. The only advice I can give is vote for that who you think is the best overall for this country .... not necessarily based on whether common wisdom, or the pundits (or other naysayers) says they have a chance, or are "electable"

No one ever got anywhere, or accomplished anything by saying (or adopting): "It can't be done ...." at the outset.

The fact is, most who don't know him will likely vote against him BECAUSE of his age.
Then I submit to you: the task at hand is to ensure that people do get to know him.

An example of how one might do that is speaking out when the ill-informed and rather sadly misguided seek to malign and misrepresent who Dr. Paul actually is, and what he is really about - often twisting things out of context, assigning non-existent significances (meanings) to things which have no actual basis in fact.

If you are familiar with Dr. Paul and who he really is (as opposed to what some people would like to make him out to be) then you could actually start doing that right here in this thread. As always, it's ones choice.
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
So you are saying you want Palin to run in '12?
I wouldn't mind it - I think she would be an excellent candidate .... but not at the top of the ticket (for reasons enumerated earlier) .... she needs to grow in to something more .... the potential is there .... but the cake ain't quite done yet ..... needs more polish.

How 'bout this ticket, Palin/Limbaugh or Palin/Beck how about Palin/Hannity
Any of them ain't goin' nowhere but down ..... all of those would be dead before the birth ever took place.

But I'm sure some of you here would be salavating at the chance to vote for one of those tickets.
Not I, not a one of them .... and not because Palin was on the ticket, but because of who else was.

You do realize that the Republicans are trying to distance themselves from her?
You mean the "party machine" Repubs of course ..... yeah, you bet they are .... she's way too independent ..... not an insider ....

The good folks you speak of (sarcasm) were already very, very busy from within, during the last campaign, trying to derail her with the backstabbing .....

If Paul (without Palin) runs I will vote for him, I don't care if he's 84 years old.
Now there's an interesting proposition - a liberal/conservative alliance to take back our country ?

Question is, as always, is anyone else big enough (and brave enough) to step up to the plate ..... and help make it happen ?
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
I suppose I could take the time and effort to parse these multi-chaptered screeds of yours and insert cutsy, smart-a**ed comments along with insults to your intelligence and other personal remarks
Oh ..... you must mean that previously calling me a liberal wasn't a personal remark - specifically intended to be insulting ?

In light of the content of many of your posts, and what you have repeatedly claimed your politics to be, I just assumed that the word "liberal" to be a pejorative (<--- click for definition) ..... was I wrong about this ?

If so, a thousand pardons ..... :rolleyes:

that lower the level of debate and exchange of ideas in this venue;
.... but ya figger that posting slanderous hit-pieces on political candidates is probably ok .... and will raise the level of debate ?

but that would probably be crossing the line of the personal attack policy posted at the very top of the forum.
I would rather imagine that it would depend on what was actually said .....

Since you seemingly haven't read Dreamer's post
I can assure you: I have indeed read it .... multiple times, in fact.

or have chosen to ignore it due to your special type of hubris, I'll just insert the last sentence:
"Disagree if you want. Leave the personal insults, and background insinuations out of it."
One would always do well to examine one's own conduct - indeed the panes in ones own house - before casting stones in another's direction .....

Disagreeing with you or having a conservative viewpoint doesn't make me or anyone else a "mental midget" or "utterly retarded."
Well .... I don't believe I ever said that it did ..... I merely characterized what I thought of certain positions or ideas .....

Rest assured, I will continue to illustrate any position or idea however I see fit - within the bounds of the terms of service I agreed to, to participate on this site .... if you (or anyone else for that matter) deem that I am in violation of those terms of service, please feel free to inform myself and the moderators.

Upon being so informed, I will happily re-examine what I have said and, if necessary issue an apology to the community for any infractions.

However, I realize it's probably hard to keep your charming personality from bubbling over onto the keypad.
Well .... there is little doubt that I am an acquired taste ..... just ask my wife :rolleyes:

Now back to the subject at hand, a couple of points:

1. Paul was never a viable candidate, and his poll numbers never got above single digits.
As stated, I believe that is factually inaccurate - and therefore what you have said (at least without you qualifying it further) is factually a lie .....

As but one example - an MSNBC online poll (prior to the debates) had Ron Paul with only about 9% approval ... as compared to at least a high of 34% (after the debate)

I'm currently on a load so I don't have unlimited time to do more digging.

No sitting member of the House other than James A. Garfield in 1880 has been elected President of the US - and even then Garfield had already been elected to a position in the Senate before campaigning for President.
Well there ya go ! Thanks for informing me of the historical context.

I guess then that it is a utter impossibility for Ron Paul to be elected .... outside of the laws of this universe .... a fact, undoubtedly and completely reinforced, by who the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue is ... a no-name, three-term minor state official (senator), who was elected to the US Senate .... and served a whopping three years of his initial 6-year term ...... yup .... ya got me convinced ...

Folks, it's a lock ..... might as well go home .... roll up the carpets and head out .... last one out turn off the lights ..... Pilgrim has spoken .....

2. About those wackos:
Ahhhh yeeeaaah .... well here's the deal ..... to treat such a libelous screed with the appropriate attention and thoroughness it deserves, it's gonna take time ..... so stay tuned ....

Suffice it to say - I doubt that you are gonna like the response .....

But hey, you just keep settin' 'em up .... and I'll do my best to do my part. :D
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Just a quick one:

Source Watch: American Thinker

Read what is posted on this site (which is non-partisan) about American Thinker very, very carefully .... most particularly the example - and the link defining what an "echo chamber" is .... it gives some insight about how the game is played.

Like I said before, if you repeat the lie often enough ..... people can, and do, believe it .... often unwittingly.

Or just skip it .... afterall, ignorance is indeed bliss.
 
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Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
As stated, I believe that is factually inaccurate - and therefore what you have said (at least without you qualifying it further) is factually a lie .....

As but one example - an MSNBC online poll (prior to the debates) had Ron Paul with only about 9% approval ... as compared to at least a high of 34% (after the debate)


One last point about Ron Paul, and I'm done with this dead horse. Question: how many Republican primaries or caucuses did he win? If memory serves me correctly, I believe it was NONE. How many did he come close to winning? Once again, I believe it was NONE. The following is a summary of GOP presidential candidates with their delegate counts. You'll notice that Paul came in a distant fourth with a whopping 35 delegates at the GOP convention - 1.6% (Romney was third with 271). I believe it's safe to say that the vast majority of Republican voters regarded him as an interesting but insignificant candidate.

Republican Party (United States) presidential primaries, 2008 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
One last point about Ron Paul, and I'm done with this dead horse.
Translation:

"Please, please, please stop talking about this subject - you are making me extremely uncomfortable .... especially with all that Paul/Palin talk ...... please do not look behind the black curtain .... it is very unsafe ..... and, if you do, pay no attention to the man at the lever ...."

prolly because Paul didn't walk goose step with the mainstream GOP.....:eek:
Heheheh ..... go ahead - tell me that was a Freudian slip ...... and wasn't intentional :eek:
 
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OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Translation:

"Please, please, please stop talking about this subject - you are making me extremely uncomfortable .... especially with all that Paul/Palin talk ...... please do not look behind the black curtain .... it is very unsafe ..... and, if you do, pay no attention to the man at the lever ...."


Heheheh ..... go ahead - tell me that was a Freudian slip ...... and wasn't intentional :eek:

for you to figure out and me to know...hehehe;)
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Common sense, especially in these trying times but if this is the best you have against Michelle it's rather lame.
Of course I was only responding to the fact that she had gored my ox ..... I hadn't really looked into anything beyond that ... but since you raised the issue:

"Another controversy involving private addresses began on July 1, 2006, when Malkin and other bloggers commented on a New York Times Travel section article that had featured the town where Vice President Dick Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld owned summer homes. The article included a picture of Rumsfeld's long tree lined driveway that showed a birdhouse and small portion of the housefront. Malkin declared that this story was part of "a concerted, organized effort to dig up and publicize the private home information of prominent conservatives in the media and blogosphere to intimidate them." Within two days, the Center for American Progress reported that Rumsfeld's office had given permission for the Times story and that the Secret Service said there was no security threat." (source: wikipedia.com)

And then there was the "scarf controversy" .....:

"In late May 2008, celebrity chef Rachel Ray appeared in a web advertisement for Dunkin' Donuts iced coffee wearing a thin nylon neck scarf. The following day, conservative bloggers, led by Michelle Malkin, described the scarf as a "keffiyeh", (which is a traditional Arab male headdress made of heavy cloth woven with a checked pattern, and which has come to represent the Palestinian uprising or intifada). Malkin dubbed the scarf "jihadi" chic, implying that Ray and Dunkin' Donuts were promoting Islamic extremism. Malkin's opinion spread widely through the internet, and conservatives began to condemn Dunkin' Donuts and organize a boycott."

The company withdrew the ad within one day, and several days later stated: "In a recent online ad, Rachael Ray is wearing a black-and-white silk scarf with a paisley design. It was selected by her stylist for the advertising shoot. Absolutely no symbolism was intended. However, given the possibility of misperception, we are no longer using the commercial." (source: wikipedia.com)


For this last little bit of total journalistic irresponsibility, I hereby nominate Michelle Malkin for the very first annual:

Chef Dennis Frothiness Award ™

Should I wonder at your "truthiness" on Michelle ..... ?
Ahhh .... how's that saying go ?

".... fool me once, shame on you .... fool me twice .... and shame on who ?"
 
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Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
But it's all about appearances, Rlent. Ask Don Imus what was intended, but ask Al Sharpton what was perceived. In this case, what comes around goes around; but no one was hurt in the end. Again... ask Don Imus about getting taken out of context; and ask those kids who counted on his cancer ranch about being let down.
 

dieseldiva

Veteran Expediter
(source: wikipedia.com)

You have every right to your personal opinion but you're going to have to do better than "implications" that Michelle made and using wikipedia as a solid source, in their own words...

I can't rely on a "source" that is edited by "anyone and everyone". That makes it no different than a blog unless the blog lists their sources, as Michelle Malkin always does.
 

letzrockexpress

Veteran Expediter
But it's all about appearances, Rlent. Ask Don Imus what was intended, but ask Al Sharpton what was perceived. In this case, what comes around goes around; but no one was hurt in the end. Again... ask Don Imus about getting taken out of context; and ask those kids who counted on his cancer ranch about being let down.


Ask Don Imus's own kids how they felt about being abandoned in Cleveland when he took off with some skank back in the 70's...
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
You have every right to your personal opinion
Indeed - as do you.

You even have a right to an opinion, all while shielding your eyes to avoid looking and/or seeing .....

but you're going to have to do better than "implications" that Michelle made and using wikipedia as a solid source,
Nah .... actually I don't - all I have to do is hold out the possibility ..... and invite others to then take a look .....

You are making the mistake of assuming that when I write on here, I am writing to you - or some other party who I appear to be responding to.

Often I'm really not - many times what I write is intended for those that read, and don't ever post ..... the intention is to get others to think .... to question ..... and to consider another viewpoint or possibility besides their own ...... or the so-called mainstream "conventional wisdom" ......

I usually don't waste my time trying to convince the "true believers" (although it might appear that way to some) ..... generally no convincing is even possible - one could show a picture of the Earth, taken from the Moon, to a flat-Earther, and they would deny it ..... claim it had been doctored in Photoshop or something ... and that the Earth was indeed flat.

I can't rely on a "source" that is edited by "anyone and everyone".
While it might well be edited by anyone, I'm fairly sure that it is not edited by everyone ..... :rolleyes:

Had you bothered to actually look up Michelle Malkin on Wikipedia, you would have seen the article that I cited contains numerous citations (and links to them) as to the source material that the article is based on - many of them from Michelle Malkin's website itself, in her own words - as well as such dubious sources as the New York Times and The Boston Globe (which, admittedly, can certainly be wrong at times - just like any source, since they are all written by humans)

Of course, I understand your trepidation at relying on such a source as Wikipedia - in that case, one could always just read the numerous sources cited on Wiki's Malkin page - many of which (all ?) are accessible on the web - and then draw one's own conclusion to what it all means .....

One could even go so far as to Google the matter and look for other sources as well, to try and counter the possibility of any Wikipedia "agenda" ....

But in order to do that, one would have to at least be willing to look ...... in the first place.

Reading the articles mentioned above gives some insight into the actual use on the right/conservative/Republican side of "echo chambers" to try and make a story seem "true" or valid. BTW - they certainly don't have a lock on it - the left/liberal/Democratic side does it as well .... either way (or side), it is misleading at best, and inherently dishonest.

That makes it no different than a blog unless the blog lists their sources, as Michelle Malkin always does.
Yeeaah .... well .... pretty much addressed above .....

But here's the real deal: citing a source, while certainly a good thing (in terms of giving one more thing with which to evaluate the veracity of the information someone is trying to push off on you) it is never any guarantee of said information being accurate, or true ..... it just merely evidence that someone else also said it. One could cite sources till the cows come home .... and it would not make anything anymore factual, or anymore "true", if in reality it wasn't.

To drive the point home a little further of what it is I'm really trying to get at, I'll tell you what happens with me, when I watch one of these media pundits or celebs (from either the left or the right) on the tele .... which is pretty rare these days - simply because I have learned over time that very rarely is there is much in the way of actual, useful information to be gained .... most of what is there comes with an agenda - and prolonged exposure to this crap is hazardous to ones health (mental, spiritual, and possibly physical)

I will see them say some thing where they just totally nail it .... they get it right in one small aspect - that's great and fine and all .... the problem generally arises fairly quickly: they continue to talk - often because they are so enamored with the sound of their own voices (a dangerous thing to be sure - ask me how I know :D) .... and it just goes off the rails from there ....

The point is, while one might have immense admiration for a few certain, select things one of these .... ahhh ..... media :censoredsign:s .... might say ..... one has to be very, very careful in terms of agreeing with them wholesale .... as many times it is not readily apparent what the full package is that one is buying into ..... and I can tell you with absolute certainty that sitting back and accepting a constant inflow of others thoughts whilst nodding one's head in agreement, does not raise one's own ability to think or reason ..... in fact, it does the exact opposite.

On that note: kudos to you for recommending a book to read ..... a potentially less harmful alternative to be sure ..... :D
 
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OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I like that....you are responding to the idea or proposed thought that is written NOT to the person that wrote it...that does take it away from the personal side....
The Dirty Dozen in here often get this "pile on the bunny" fever and posting things rabidly without much thought to the news stories other then see something and quickly post it here...without any real regard to whether it makes sense or the sources, to wit only to their personal idealogies.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Rlent... I totally agree with what you're saying about following someone blindly, if only for the reason they're on your side of the soapbox. I'm sure I'll find something I disagree with Michelle on - just as I have Rush, Wilkow, Palin, etc. I have my own mind; therefore, I don't subscribe to anyone's wisdom. I may agree with them in general; and they may sway my opinion a bit; and they may come up with something I haven't thought of before.

But for the most part, I am just a conservative who is against 99.9% of the things that aren't in the Constitution. It's a pretty narrow view, I know; but one that has served this country successfully for over 200 years. So having that narrow of a view, it is not hard to agree with a lot of things said by conservative talking heads.

The same could be said about presidents and politicians in general. I think the REAL danger lies in being totally absorbed in their promises and talking points. If you're a student of history/sociology (or whatever ology relates to what I'm talking about), you'll find that a lot of conservatives did not like Bush a whole heckuva lot; altho we are considered Bush lapdogs. Whereas, most of the lefties who claim this are still claiming Obama's campaign promises as a reason he's a great president. You could go further, and show the circus that was the Obama supporter who knew NOTHING of the issues, in the man-on-the-street interviews. Unfortunately, I think you'll find that more of the norm in this day and age.

I don't find it funny when someone brags about a candidate, and knows nothing about the issues. It waters down the power of legitimate voters. I would respect a leftie who is knowledgable, and truly believes in his ideology, over someone who voted for McCain because they were into older balding men who were tortured. Homework is a healthy thing, IF you do it with an open mind.
 

dieseldiva

Veteran Expediter
Rlent: your comments and much of what was written with them are both patronizing and insulting.

I have used Wikipedia but I don't take their word as gospel and I don't use them as a quotable source.

The assumption is, that because I agree with and enjoy someone's writing, that I am somehow blinded by them. That insults my intelligence. I enjoy and pass on many writers, doesn't mean that I'm blind to their humanity.

I am capable (believe it or not) of thinking my own thoughts and (heaven forbid) making my own decisions. That being said, I am interested in not just the news story of the day, but also, what is the "buzz", what are others thinking and saying. I'm a comparable thinker and it serves me well to explore other's opinions and views that any one news story may not include.

I make no apology that I do not pick an author apart before I read or recommend their work to others. When I see a writing that I enjoy, I pass it on, period. That makes me, IMHO, neither naive, blind, or stupid.
 

dieseldiva

Veteran Expediter
I will add that some seem more interested in shooting the messenger than ingesting the message. The recommended book is an expose' of the different characters involved in this administration, many of them "shady" at best. I didn't bring it forward for the vetting of the author, to my knowledge, she isn't running for any public office. I merely thought some might be interested in the content, not having the time or resources to research these people on their own.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
OVM wrote:

The Dirty Dozen in here often get this "pile on the bunny" fever and posting things rabidly without much thought to the news stories other then see something and quickly post it here...without any real regard to whether it makes sense or the sources, to wit only to their personal idealogies.

Exactly..if it works for me and the agenda that i come from, thats all that matters and i don't give a crap what the writer has done or said in the past.. .on the issues of today, it is all about discrediting barry and his ideals and showing him as he is a socialist, statist marxist....and if someone that has been shown in the public to use mistruths, half truths, outright lies writes something that will work to that agenda, its fair game to use and spread as far as 1 can.....it is up to the reader to decide how they want to either use it, believe it or dis-regard it... RLENT , turtle and alot of others here are excellent at doing exactly that...so its all open season and spreading anything that works...

As to blindingly following anyone, if you are basing that on using another persons writings to further an agenda, then you are under the impression that to use that material you has to believe it themselves, nothing could be further from the truth, i personal do not believe all i use, but if it works to do what i want, it gets used....me personally, i believe in the right for a woman to choose, but if their is an article showing barry providing money for abortions, you can bet i will use it and spread it all over...it goes the same way as to finding an article that shows barry in a positive light, it will never be used by me....

We all have agendas and ideals that we follow, when we come across a writer or speaker or commentator that is on our side of AN issue, for the most part, the narrow view that we most often take is all that we care about....i don't care about what a person has said in the past unless it works to my benefit, other then that, its about the single issue for me

I ve heard here on this board that the way i go after barry even to use something that might not be true does nothing but push people to the other side....i guest the libs have been doing the same thing, look at the shift in how the people are now turning on barry.......his base is getting to the point that his only support is coming from those who voted for him because he was black.......so using info from anyone that you want doesn't mean you blindly follow that person, its all about using info to further your agenda and ideals, nothing else.....
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
Diva wrote:

I merely thought some might be interested in the content, not having the time or resources to research these people on their own.

Now you went and done it!! You see providing info is only a good thing here IF it fits into the ideas of the others here, if they agree with you, then its ok, but if they are on the other side of your opinions, then doing so is out of line because they have the ability to find info for themselves and don't need you to provide them with anything...thats been pointed out to me more then once.....but i'll keep doing it as each time :D they do, i get e-mails telling to continue because some just don't have the time to look all over the web for info...they then decide if it has any value for them....

Keep it up Diva, you do a good job....;)

PS: while i had heard about michelles book early on, i didn't pay it until after i read your post, i had forgotten the name of it, and your post gave me that info, i then bought the book...it is in the truck with levins, and becks now....oh and also with "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand,that one is a hard read, but she certainly hit it out of the park and you can see the things she wrote about coming to pass now......it is also flying off the shelves of book stores as people are coming around to see what is going on in our country.....
 
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