I need some help because I am going to do something weird/stupid

[toaster jones]

OK.... I have no idea if this is the right place but I know you will know where to send me if it isnt.
So I am a leather worker, and I am looking to build out a traveling workshop/motor home. I originally thought retired school bus, then retired motor-coach. BUT school buses are hard to insure, and motor-coaches dont have the ground clearance to take it where I want to go...

So I started exploring the idea of building a tiny home out of a shipping container slapping it on a (forgive me for using any wrong terms I am seriously out of my depth) straight truck/box truck. Then getting it re-titled as a motor home. From all my research this seems to be the same process that would be needed to convert the title of a bus to a bus conversion... but that is a me problem. By doing this the vehicle is no longer under any smog restrictions other than what was in place on the date of manufacture and GVW and CDL restrictions go away too. The final Frankenstein would be technically a Super Class C motor home.

Here is where I need help, is there a glossary of terms so I can start understanding whats going on?
How heavy is a 20' container filled to the brim with say everything you would find in a household?
What kind of a truck should I look for?
I like the idea of having tandem rear axles because I foresee a lot of bad dirt roads in my future and figure if I spread out the weight it would drive better, can I add an axle and if so how much does that thing cost (I believe if I do that after getting motor home titled it would avoid some taxes)?
I am guessing that older trucks migrate to other countries due to emissions, where would be the best place to find a serviceable truck that might not be up to snuff for an expediter but would work to drive it maybe 500-1000 miles once a month?

I need advice so I can maneuver through this crazy foolish weird plan I need to learn some things before I can move forward.

 

[terryandrene]

You could surely use a 5000 lb 20' shipping container on a cutaway of ample size; however, the conversion costs would be excessive compared to visiting the classified section of this site. You could find a fair priced, used straight truck that would have a bonus sleeper compartment that should satisfy your urge for an RV section and a mobile workshop.

 

[ntimevan]

Lengths restrictions...?
Weight restrictions ...? Very Heavy.
Pass Final Inspection. Where..? Why .. ?
License RV Frankenstein ..?
Insurance costs ...?
Construction Costs and Permits...?
Where can I LEGALLY park the thing. ...?

WHY .... am i SERIOUSLY considering doing this ..?



Money not Miles

 

[BigStickJr]

Lengths restrictions...?
Weight restrictions ...? Very Heavy.
Pass Final Inspection. Where..? Why .. ?
License RV Frankenstein ..?
Insurance costs ...?
Construction Costs and Permits...?
Where can I LEGALLY park the thing. ...?

WHY .... am i SERIOUSLY considering doing this ..?

Money not Miles

Why ???
His name gives a clue.

He’s TOASTED man !!!!

 

[Solar]

Buy a Camper, pull it with a 3/4 ton truck (minimum).

You could get a nice self contained toy hauler camper that would give you living quarters, shower, bathroom, AND have space for a work area.

You could disconnect from your camper and grab supplies when you’re parked somewhere. Also, you could put a camper shell and keep more supplies in the back of the truck if you get a bumper pull.

Or, if living quarters aren’t that important, you could dedicate your entire trailer into being a work/storage area, put signs on it, and make it a mobile store, and you could put a camper shell on the truck, and put a mattress in there, and use that area as a sleeper.

No CDL, no special insurance.

 

[toaster jones]

You could surely use a 5000 lb 20' shipping container on a cutaway of ample size; however, the conversion costs would be excessive compared to visiting the classified section of this site. You could find a fair priced, used straight truck that would have a bonus sleeper compartment that should satisfy your urge for an RV section and a mobile workshop.

I have been thinking about this, I feel there are 2 main issues with just doing a box truck conversion, I plan on taking it down unimproved roads which means I will have to substantially reinforce the walls and roof any ways. Secondly I like the look of shipping containers and who doesnt want their house to look cool. When I am too old and broken to keep up the traveling I would like the ability to crane it off and put it on pillars (or a flat bed trailer depending on local zoning) if I found a place I wanted to settle down at.

1:Lengths restrictions...?
2: Weight restrictions ...? Very Heavy.
3: Pass Final Inspection. Where..? Why .. ?
4: License RV Frankenstein ..?
5: Insurance costs ...?
6: Construction Costs (7 and Permits...?
8: Where can I LEGALLY park the thing. ...?

9: WHY .... am i SERIOUSLY considering doing this ..?

View attachment 18137

Money not Miles

I numbered them to make them easier to answer

1 legally the same max length you can put on the road practically 27' bumper to bumper gets you in about 99% of places that you can camp, 35' gets you into 95% of state parks and national parks. 40' gets you 80% of the places. 45' is only about 65% and makes most national and state parks too dificult to bother with.

2 You do know how heavy a bus conversion is (33,000+) this is what I have been looking at. Hell most factory motor homes in the size I wold need are going to be that 26k plus range. Those folks driving the insane sized monsters are pulling things nearly as heavy as you guys, with almost no oversight.

3 I dont quite know what you are referring to? For motor home conversion of a title, usually you go to local dmv, or the one in the region who spefically does them. The rig will no longer be governed under mc regs or usdot, instead it is now governed only under the rules of the licensing state and must follow the rules of motor homes.

4 Once the title is changed it will forever be an rv, even if you rip everything out of it and it is a giant empty shell (this is quite common with buses they pull out some seats and put a sleeper sofa and Coleman stove, a fridge (in highway buses they already has a bathroom) get it re titled the put the seats back in to drive to sporting events with their friends), I am sure if you tried to do this and swap it back into commercial service they would get you on something, but good news I plan on living in it.

5 Honestly I dont know, but...... basically there is ALWAYS a way to get liability only on a homemade RV, that said if you make a claim they will cancel your ass. Now if i were a member of the RVIA builders alliance and paid all their guild fees, I could slap a sticker on it and it could get full insurance under most circumstances (the RVIA is a joke/scam created by the industry and not the insurance companies and their codes are the reason so many trailers catch on fire and blow up in crashes it was only created to keep the federal government out of regulating the industry)

6 As much or as little as you want to spend, I would try for about $15k to $20k and make upgrades as I go along you know like a house. I bet I could find a serviceable box truck and outfit it for about $10k maybe less if I wanted to waste a bunch of time looking for free stuff.

7 F**king NONE! That is the best part! (remember how I said the RVIA is a scam to avoid regulation you can thank them for that)

8 That is the most complex question you pose, most states/ counties/ cities have their own regulations about it but rule of thumb (the most common rule) is 72 hours on public streets, lots of places ban public street parking for anything over 27', some places ban sleeping in vehicles (this is constitutionally questionable but is often only used against vagrants/ homeless people who, well, lets face it are not going to fight it to the supreme court). BLM gives you usually 16 days unless otherwise posted, national forest is 14 days unless otherwise posted then in both cases you must move a significant distance (not a legally specified number but is controlled by the governing ranger district (typically between 1 and 25 miles). Camp grounds and rv parks that are privately owned can allow you to stay as long as the local ordinances allow (some indefinitely some have a specified amount of time allowed under zoning codes), now there are campgrounds/ rv parks that have a 55+ age limit, some done allow rigs older than 10 years old, and some wont allow non RVIA rigs (this is typically used to keep out hippies, jalopies, and eye sores). <<<All of those apply to diy and factory made RVs

9 if that was a question to me I will respond with this, As I was sitting keeping my dog company as he was dying I began to think why do I need a home base? The dogs and ty jobs are the only thing keeping us in one place. We had always liked the idea of tiny homes/ shipping container homes and I was trying to convince the special lady friend to build up a stealth van so we could go from city to city not paying rent and stretching our dicking about budget that way. Then I found the world of skoolies (go to skoolie dot net), skoolies suffer from a kind of campground racism(not being allowed no matter how nice or well done they were) They are also very hard to get insurance on due to the all to common college drunkwagon party bus, not to mention if you are 6' tall you might not be able to stand up in a bus any where except the dead center meaning probably need to roof raise which would cost a couple a couple of grand and take time (also why hard to insure). I found world of motor coach bus conversions bigger more comfortable easier to insure. Now I realize the places I want to be able to go will require more ground clearance than a highway bus has and I dont want to be stuck looking for places that have big flat 40'+ spots and then have to pay the extra cost for that. SO why not make my shipping container tiny home (probably around 28') put it on a truck frame and make a DIY super class c made for my crazy dreams/life (super class c is a class c motor home built on an industrial truck chassis they typically start $100k)
Now if you were asking yourself that question I cant answer that for you but I suggest you look over at skoolie dot net. I have also found a couple of guys (yes no women) who have converted step vans maybe a handful who have converted a box truck into RVs so I know it can be done.

I just need to learn about industrial trucks so I can make an intelligent purchase. I find it is always easier to start the words on the culture so you can understand what people are saying and so you can ask better questions.

Buy a Camper, pull it with a 3/4 ton truck (minimum).

You could get a nice self contained toy hauler camper that would give you living quarters, shower, bathroom, AND have space for a work area.

You could disconnect from your camper and grab supplies when you’re parked somewhere. Also, you could put a camper shell and keep more supplies in the back of the truck if you get a bumper pull.

Or, if living quarters aren’t that important, you could dedicate your entire trailer into being a work/storage area, put signs on it, and make it a mobile store, and you could put a camper shell on the truck, and put a mattress in there, and use that area as a sleeper.

No CDL, no special insurance.

Ok well for starters any toy hauler worth full timing out of is $50k+ which, nope dont have that cash laying around. And I would have to buy a truck big enough to pull it too min $7k. Once a commercial vehicle is converted which varies from state to state but usually requires a bed, a toilet, cooking facilities, and water storage... you can get the title changed to motor home, car home, rv (also varies by state). Once it has been converted there is no special insurance required or driving licenses in most states (40) 10 do require you to get a non commercial class a/b...written test only. Texas requires a written and driving test. Also not a mobile store, they are not effective at all, I go from art show to art show and set up a booth.


I have been looking at DIY tiny living for about 5 years, and nomadic tiny living for the past 3, but the idea of a DIY Super C is only 2 weeks old (hell Super Cs are only about 5 years old anyways and only in the past 2.5 have more manufactures begun to make them)

 

[Solar]

I’ve seen some nice carnival setups that were also living spaces, set up on class b vehicles. I never really questioned them about the process of it, but it obviously can be done.

Also, you don’t need to buy a brand new toy hauler. I’ve seen solid FEMA trailers for $1,000 that could be converted into whatever you want, and it only takes a 3/4 ton to pull them.

Good luck with your endeavors!

 

[toaster jones]

I’ve seen some nice carnival setups that were also living spaces, set up on class b vehicles. I never really questioned them about the process of it, but it obviously can be done.

Also, you don’t need to buy a brand new toy hauler. I’ve seen solid FEMA trailers for $1,000 that could be converted into whatever you want, and it only takes a 3/4 ton to pull them.

Good luck with your endeavors!

I know what you are saying I respect you are trying to help. The reason I am not looking into most commercially made RVs is that they are designed to be used 8 weekends a year, never during the winter and have a 5-10 year service life. So your average camper is basically only designed to be used for 160 days before its trashed. Units that are built to last usually start $200k new. There are some around $100k but they need about $20k dumped into them to get them full time capable. The typically recommended best practice is to buy a 15+ year old unit that was a $400k+ model, as no one will loan on a 15 year old RV and thus it becomes a cash only transaction, its not atypical for a 20 year old million dollar motor coach to be sold in the $50k range. Other than updating the interior it is good to go for another 20 years. The biggest problem is I am going to have to reinforce the area where I put my industrial sewing equipment and I will have to feng sheui it to turn the bed room into a workshop and then relocate the bed room, by the time I do that I might as well just build it from scratch, it will be cheaper however it will take longer. The biggest advantage is I can balance the weight and locate my wiring where it needs to be. I find the problem is that I am trying to something that is very far off the beaten path so tools the that already exist are just not quite what I need, sure they can be modified (with enough time and money any thing can). This is the problem when you dont live in a normal way, I looked at the rigs for sale in the classifieds, those are all neat but not normal rigs I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles in my life and I have rarely seen straight boxes with sleepers. The folks on this forum for the most part are not living a normal life too, hence why I am asking you guys here. I like the vibe here, I like how people around here seem to be on fringe of the trucking industry, you guys are doing something interesting with and equally interesting perspective. I can honestly say I had found the job of expediting and these live aboard rigs when I was in my early 20s I probably would have gone into it.

 

[Solar]

I wasn’t meaning RVs so much as a camper, pull trailer. The reason I brought it to the table is sometimes you need to run and get something. In that box truck you “may” be liable to hours of service, a headache you don’t want.

While it’s true a FEMA trailer isn’t built to really hit the road hard, I’m just looking at the basic components, axles, hubs, rims, tires, trailer frame, all of which can me upgraded to your liking.

Or, you could buy a flatbed trailer, I read you saw tiny house videos, many are built on trailers.

I have a friend who worked in the tent industry, would put up those huge tents you see at fairs. He drove a box truck to carry the equipment. He had to keep a log book. He had to pull into every weight station.

If research on here you’ll notice a common occurrence. People that drive solo are in “Vans”. People that drive box trucks are in “Teams”. People will read you make more $ driving a box truck, so they say hey, I’m going to buy a box truck, but I want to drive solo. Well with hours of service, you can only drive 11 hours. That means your potential is only 500-600 miles, fueling and breaks included. This may not effect you, except how do you plan on gathering supplies? You move that box truck at 7am, that means anytime after 6pm that vehicle is now illegal for you to drive. The clock doesn’t stop if you stop. You’d have to go off duty for 10 hours before you could reset the clock

There’s so much information you haven’t got to yet. I’m just trying to give a heads up on the oncoming headache.

 

[toaster jones]

Yes, that is why you have to re-title it as a motor home if you dont you would have to follow MC regulations. It also gives you more legal protections against unwarranted search and seizures (like being able to have open alcohol in the rig or being able to drink while parked and not grounds for a dui). I am also not trying to stealth it, by the time I am done with it it will be equal parts Mad Max, Dr Seuss and Dwell magazine. My question has nothing to do with the legalities of the trucking industry my question is what kind of truck to I need to to carry a 20' container that has been extended 8' has had half of the metal cut off and replaced by tongue and groove siding with some windows doors a fold down deck, a generator, water tanks (you can see how this no longer resembles an a commercial hauling rig in any way). When I am done with my conversion there will be no ambiguity that its a motor home /tiny home. My philosophy is you are not going to successfully stealth in anything that is 40' so why try. I would rather look like a tiny home and set peoples expectations that it is a tiny home, therefore they will treat me as such. When you are looking like a commercial vehicle and acting like a commercial vehicle they are going to treat you like one too e.g. your friend with the tent truck. Basically I am guessing that my crazy box is going to weigh between 15,000 ad 20,000 lbs (average weight of a built out 20' container home is 12-15k lbs with out personal affects). I am not concerned about the legal issues, trust me they will disappear when re-titled as an RV or else no one could ever self convert a bus into a super coach class a). My goal is that the machine would only be driven no more than 4 times in a month, realistically less than 25 times a year and less than 300 miles in a day seriously I dont want to drive my home weekly that sounds annoying also thats why I will tow my 4runner. I know a boat load about the legalities of the bus conversion to motor home process and tiny home construction.What I need to learn what kind of trucks and frames and where to find them and what they are worth and where to learn more... I dont really care about the legal issues of commercial driving, well, I mean I do, I am an anarchist and believe the government controls the industry too much and in stupid ways that make little sense. Once it gets it gender reassignment at the dmv it has to follow the rules of an rv.

 

[Treadmill]

Yes, that is why you have to re-title it as a motor home if you dont you would have to follow MC regulations. It also gives you more legal protections against unwarranted search and seizures (like being able to have open alcohol in the rig or being able to drink while parked and not grounds for a dui). I am also not trying to stealth it, by the time I am done with it it will be equal parts Mad Max, Dr Seuss and Dwell magazine. My question has nothing to do with the legalities of the trucking industry my question is what kind of truck to I need to to carry a 20' container that has been extended 8' has had half of the metal cut off and replaced by tongue and groove siding with some windows doors a fold down deck, a generator, water tanks (you can see how this no longer resembles an a commercial hauling rig in any way). When I am done with my conversion there will be no ambiguity that its a motor home /tiny home. My philosophy is you are not going to successfully stealth in anything that is 40' so why try. I would rather look like a tiny home and set peoples expectations that it is a tiny home, therefore they will treat me as such. When you are looking like a commercial vehicle and acting like a commercial vehicle they are going to treat you like one too e.g. your friend with the tent truck. Basically I am guessing that my crazy box is going to weigh between 15,000 ad 20,000 lbs (average weight of a built out 20' container home is 12-15k lbs with out personal affects). I am not concerned about the legal issues, trust me they will disappear when re-titled as an RV or else no one could ever self convert a bus into a super coach class a). My goal is that the machine would only be driven no more than 4 times in a month, realistically less than 25 times a year and less than 300 miles in a day seriously I dont want to drive my home weekly that sounds annoying also thats why I will tow my 4runner. I know a boat load about the legalities of the bus conversion to motor home process and tiny home construction.What I need to learn what kind of trucks and frames and where to find them and what they are worth and where to learn more... I dont really care about the legal issues of commercial driving, well, I mean I do, I am an anarchist and believe the government controls the industry too much and in stupid ways that make little sense. Once it gets it gender reassignment at the dmv it has to follow the rules of an rv.

FWIW why not give Bolt Custom Sleepers a call in Fort Wayne In and maybe pick their brain. They do alot of truck conversions and i know that’s not what you want but mavbe just maybe they could head you in the right direction. I don’t have their number but others on here may have it. Just my honest opinion.

 

[Solar]

Yea, generally speaking, I remember people having a Ford 550 dump truck that, idk legally, but could carry 10 tons with no issues. So a long bed cab and chassis Ford 550 equivalent or bigger will do the trick.