I can tell you why rates are so low. Its not fuel.

Opel2010

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Great insightful responses. I am headed to an exclusive carrier again. I did do much better for some time with the multi-carrier arrangement. Not anymore. o_O
One of my drivers asked me few days ago to give up on the carrier that I'm leased with, and switch to multi-carrier formula... I explained to him that his proposal is a bad idea. Been there already 5-6 yrs ago, I wouldn't do it again.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Brokers, carriers and shippers have discovered that they can drive down the cpm for the driver by simply saying, "would you do it for .70 cpm? Or would you do it for .60 cpm? The brokers are largely maintaining their rate while increasing the amount they keep from the driver. Lets say a brokers bids the load at 1.00 per mile. They used to then give the driver .80 per mile. Now they are saying to the driver, "Hey, can you do it for .70 or less? So instead of keeping .20 per mile, they are keeping .30, or more. As drivers, we tend to trust our carriers or brokers and count on them. All of them are not doing this, but a high enough proportion of them are to have a large negative impact. Many brokers and carriers know that rates that are too low will drive the driver out of business and so avoid the "short changing" the driver. If you put drivers out of business, who is going to keep brokers and carriers in business? Many, however, just don't think about that. Its about getting that extra for the moment. Idiots. Driving a van for less than .75 cpm as an owner operator, at current fuel prices, will not keep you in business in the long term, even if your van is paid for. Vans don't have eternal life. Savings have to be built. Insurance, maintenance, etc. Lets say a broker has a load and they have 2 vans in the area, they will call one driver and ask how much they will do it for. If that driver says .80 cpm and has been sitting for 3 days, they will call the other driver that has been there for 1 day and ask them if they would do it for .70 cpm. Guess who gets the load? This did not use to happen at the scale it is happening now. If drivers simply stopped running at these rates it would stop. You will not be running for long anyway. Wake up.

and no one cares if you survive or not..they just use you up..... millions of other suckers to take your place.....the pool is endless....Unless something drastic, like regulation (and thats not even a guarantee example straight rates) comes along the CV portion of this biz is for part timers. semi retired and maybe a 2nd to 3rd income....
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
For every expediter who will not move below a certain rate, there are a dozen high functioning retards who will.
really? are they really retards? harsh words....or is this business just morphing into an ugly duckling?
now some may just have to drive...and drive a lot of miles to make a living....no more living like a king on the road.....No more eating out at all the buffets every day....more spam and PB sammiches....no more flat screen tv's and all the toys for comfort...just an old rusty van running bare minimum trinkets....this is not going to support $50K convert vans no more and as a single source of income profession
 

sarniko

Seasoned Expediter
Driver
i think problem is that there are more and more drivers and less load. many trailer truck drivers switching to expediting van business as some of them prefer to have less but be more them self. i do not own my van yet but drive a box truck on fixed rate with more load opportunity than vans but only did 3k miles last 3 weeks.
 

SWTexas1

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
really? are they really retards? harsh words....or is this business just morphing into an ugly duckling?
now some may just have to drive...and drive a lot of miles to make a living....no more living like a king on the road.....No more eating out at all the buffets every day....more spam and PB sammiches....no more flat screen tv's and all the toys for comfort...just an old rusty van running bare minimum trinkets....this is not going to support $50K convert vans no more and as a single source of income profession

True to a point, But rates still need to support repairs and be able to save some money so that equipment can be replaced.
 
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bubblehead

Veteran Expediter
really? are they really retards? harsh words....or is this business just morphing into an ugly duckling?
now some may just have to drive...and drive a lot of miles to make a living....no more living like a king on the road.....No more eating out at all the buffets every day....more spam and PB sammiches....no more flat screen tv's and all the toys for comfort...just an old rusty van running bare minimum trinkets....this is not going to support $50K convert vans no more and as a single source of income profession
Well...just so you are up to date, no more old rusty vans either. We got a fleet message advising us that some automotive clients will no longer allow trucks/vans over 9 years old...probably because of your van OVM!
 
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xmudman

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Well...just so you are up to date, no more old rusty vans either. We got a fleet message advising us that some automotive clients will no longer allow trucks/vans over 9 years old...probably because of your van OVM!

Will rates reflect this? They expect every driver to show up in a shiny new Transit, but they wanna pay for a '94 Econoline. Make up your mind, people :mad:
 

brokcanadian

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Well...just so you are up to date, no more old rusty vans either. We got a fleet message advising us that some automotive clients will no longer allow trucks/vans over 9 years old.
Yes I think they will end up paying for that one. Makes no sense unless that's their solution to not having their freight brokered 5 or 6 times showing up on a mid 90s penske...it won't make me buy newer they can't pay enough for that, even at over 1.15 a mile...

Edit: sounds like a kooky scam to get us to buy their stuff. Must burn them at auto plants when we don't buy new, I'll just go local and sleep in my own bed
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
really? are they really retards?
Of course not really. It's hyperbole, using the same exact phrasing in the post to which I was responding, that being the reference to what brokers and carriers think most of us are. Can you not recognize hyperbole when you see or hear it?

It's the same non-harsh, exaggerated hyperbolic speech of all van drivers are morons. It doesn't literally mean that all van drivers have an IQ of between 50 and 69. Sheesh. It's used in the hyperbolic speech of the informal definition, of a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgement. While it could be argued that driving a van in expediting is quite notably stupid and demonstrates a woeful lack of good judgement, that argument would move the phrase from the hyperbolic to the literal That's just retarded.
 

blizzard2014

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Well...just so you are up to date, no more old rusty vans either. We got a fleet message advising us that some automotive clients will no longer allow trucks/vans over 9 years old...probably because of your van OVM!

And what will these automotive clients do when no one can afford a van that is not older than nine years because the rates are too low to do so? They can't have it both ways. Something has got to give!
 
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davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I wouldn't read much into it. Years ago on straights it was "nothing over five years". See how well that went over. Carriers even had that requirement for a period of time, and then they realized it wasn't realistic to provide that to a customer and still skim large percentages off the top.
 

Dynamite 1

Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
The only one I have heard of lately questioning age is American Axle. Then it was just the age of the box. 10 years & newer. It's funny though, when they put the loads out for bid they say nothing about it till you get to the guard shack. Then they want proof.
 
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OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Of course not really. It's hyperbole, using the same exact phrasing in the post to which I was responding, that being the reference to what brokers and carriers think most of us are. Can you not recognize hyperbole when you see or hear it?

It's the same non-harsh, exaggerated hyperbolic speech of all van drivers are morons. It doesn't literally mean that all van drivers have an IQ of between 50 and 69. Sheesh. It's used in the hyperbolic speech of the informal definition, of a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgement. While it could be argued that driving a van in expediting is quite notably stupid and demonstrates a woeful lack of good judgement, that argument would move the phrase from the hyperbolic to the literal That's just retarded.
sorry know not what hyperbolic is or even means....never heard the word ever before....
 
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OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
And what will these automotive clients do when no one can afford a van that is not older than nine years because the rates are too low to do so? They can't have it both ways. Something has got to give!
I do believe its more of a union thing then a company thing....IMO
 
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