I-95 Bus Crash Caused By TT?

dieseldiva · Mar 14, 2011

purgoose10 said:
The bus driver has been put out of service on another occasion. Several witnesses have come forward and stated the truck never passed the bus and that the bus ran off the road several times like the bus driver was going to sleep.

What I don't understand with all those people on board the bus why doesn't anyone do something about the driver. If he's running off the road tell him to pull over and call the cop's.

Or with the amount of cell phones probably on the bus, say nothing to escalate the driver's problem, just call the police and explain the situation.

ATeam · Mar 14, 2011

It has become an expected characteristic of freeway driving in and near New York City to have those tour buses blow by us at speeds much faster than the prevailing traffic flow and often higher than the posted speed limit.

Diane and I cannot recall a single time when we have seen a tour bus or commercial motor coach pulled over by an officer. But trucks get pulled over all the time.

I guess a load of lettuce on a big rig driven by one person is more important to bring into compliance than a bus filled with dozens of human beings being driven by a lead foot.

With the FMCSA so keen to put EOBR's in trucks, I wonder how hard it would be to convince them to require the mounting of large speedometers in the front of passenger buses that all passengers can see?

greg334 · Mar 14, 2011

Chucky Shumer seems to be making a lot of noise about this. As sad as it is to hear anyone died, it may have some positive outcome if it is taken seriously.

What I hope is they force bus companies to comply with the same rules as we do and states start enforcing speed laws.

Stricter training and licensing

EOBRs in all OTR buses

AND with that said, the accident rate among buses is low but the fatality rate among serious accidents is high - maybe even higher than that of trucks.

It is like the accident in Atlanta a few years back, the company and many in the industry blamed the freeway design but I can't. ANY bus should not be traveling in Atlanta in the left lane at high speeds.

cheri1122 · Mar 14, 2011

dieseldiva said:
Or with the amount of cell phones probably on the bus, say nothing to escalate the driver's problem, just call the police and explain the situation.

The accident happened at around 0530, when nearly all passengers were asleep - and because the hospital required translators, it's assumed many passengers didn't speak much [if any] English.
Also, when the Chinese community was asked for help identifying victims, they were assured that immigration status wasn't going to be questioned, leaving a clear picture of people who wouldn't be likely to call the cops on anyone, for anything.
It looks like the bus driver nodded off or fell asleep, and how much of the blame is due the tour operators, and the driver himself, is to be determined.
Interesting, though, how readers' comments went from "lynch the truck driver who hit and ran" to "the truck may have been a red herring" - but only after the papers reported it.

redytrk · Mar 15, 2011

NTSB probes bus crush, driver's criminal past revealed - NYPOST.com

OntarioVanMan · Mar 15, 2011

Lets look at what I'd say should really be looked at...

Lax Rules for Discount Buses Cited After I-95 Crash

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/n.../json8.nytimes.com/pages/nyregion/index.jsonp

OntarioVanMan · Mar 15, 2011

redytrk said:
NTSB probes bus crush, driver's criminal past revealed - NYPOST.com

Killer behind the wheel? catchy headline...but really distracts from the REAL issues..

purgoose10 · Mar 15, 2011

Driver served 7 years for manslaughter. Had 2 D/Lic with fake names, so I would think he'll go back to prison and the bus company will be closed up. Bus companies carry 5 million per seat insurance (supposed to) so the law suits will probably eat their lunch.

OntarioVanMan · Mar 15, 2011

purgoose10 said:
Driver served 7 years for manslaughter. Had 2 D/Lic with fake names, so I would think he'll go back to prison and the bus company will be closed up. Bus companies carry 5 million per seat insurance (supposed to) so the law suits will probably eat their lunch.

W.W.T is a fairly big outfit...they'd be more likely to fold there a reopen under a different operating name and they carry on...

and this...http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_tour_...DeW5fdG9wX3N0b3JpZXMEc2xrA255Y2J1c2RyaXZlcg--

On Monday night, another company's luxury tour bus from Chinatown to Philadelphia crashed on the New Jersey Turnpike, killing the driver and a passenger. About 40 people were hospitalized.

cheri1122 · Mar 15, 2011

OntarioVanMan said:
W.W.T is a fairly big outfit...they'd be more likely to fold there a reopen under a different operating name and they carry on...

And shouldn't the frequency and ease of doing just that also be an issue to look at?
It seems that companies/corporations can simply file bankruptcy and dissolve when hit with negative consequences for their own lack of integrity, then reform [meaning form again, not change their behavior] under a different name, carrying on until/unless they get caught again.
I often wonder if the officials of Arrow Trucking have done just that....

OntarioVanMan · Mar 15, 2011

cheri1122 said:
OntarioVanMan said:

W.W.T is a fairly big outfit...they'd be more likely to fold there a reopen under a different operating name and they carry on...

And shouldn't the frequency and ease of doing just that also be an issue to look at?
It seems that companies/corporations can simply file bankruptcy and dissolve when hit with negative consequences for their own lack of integrity, then reform [meaning form again, not change their behavior] under a different name, carrying on until/unless they get caught again.
I often wonder if the officials of Arrow Trucking have done just that....

Click to expand...

Any convictions should be against the US DOT number and they should not be allowed to simply change names and get another number and away they go....

ATeam · Mar 17, 2011

New York State Police are cracking down on tour bus operators.

36 roadside inspections, 10 drivers placed out of service.

Full story here, as told by NY DOT.

Diane and I drove through New York City on Tuesday (3/15), northbound on I-95. This was mid-day and traffic was moving at the speed limit excpet for brief slowdowns at the usual choke points. We only saw one tour bus but it blew by us in the usual fashion.

OntarioVanMan · Mar 17, 2011

ATeam said:
New York State Police are cracking down on tour bus operators.

36 roadside inspections, 10 drivers placed out of service.

Full story here, as told by NY DOT.

Just one of them knee jerk reactions?

ATeam · Mar 17, 2011

OntarioVanMan said:
Just one of them knee jerk reactions?

More I think a reaction to the public spotlight which will naturally shift in the DOT's direction. Smart PR people at the department would urge a crackdown to keep the DOT ahead of any criticism that may come its way.

The inspections are not a bad thing but it is sad to see such after the fact actions. It happens when a traffic light goes up only after someone gets killed in the intersection. So too with rail road crossing gates. Dead bodies have a way of motivating public officials. Citizens can petition to get a light put up in their neighbor hood but lights tend to go up only after the blood flows.

When expediters Glen and Janice Rice were involved in a horrific wreck on the Florida Turnpike, median barriers went up soon after. The accident in which a four wheeler crossed the median and crashed into the Rices was the event that got the highway people off the dime and the barriers erected.

moose · Mar 18, 2011

In one of the news covered relating to this crash, it was mentions that some crash investigations ,was handed over to the NTSB .this can becomes a problem for all commercial drivers ,as the NTSB only investigate 4 to 5 road accidents a year. it's finding are published as an recommendations ,and regulators MUST address those to prevent further liability .

another example is the involvement of the NTSB in that O.K Truck crash . story here :
http://www.todaystrucking.com/news.cfm?intDocID=24727
and a mandatory " a fatigue management program" coming to your carrier soon .

BillChaffey · Mar 18, 2011

I don't see how the driver was "Fatigued" According to the paper I read he said he slept in the bus while his passengers gambled. He crashed some where in the Bronx. He was probably less then 5 hours from the Mohegan Sun.

jansiemoo · Mar 18, 2011

ATeam said:
New York State Police are cracking down on tour bus operators.

36 roadside inspections, 10 drivers placed out of service.

That's a pretty big percentage oos, isn't it?

cheri1122 · Mar 18, 2011

BillChaffey said:
I don't see how the driver was "Fatigued" According to the paper I read he said he slept in the bus while his passengers gambled. He crashed some where in the Bronx. He was probably less then 5 hours from the Mohegan Sun.

Oh yes, he said he slept - he also said he was clipped by the t/t, which was untrue [the t/t was impounded, driver questioned, authorities are calling him a witness now - he didn't cause the crash] so he knows what to say to minimize his responsibility, but it's not necessarily the truth.
The story has disappeared - wonder if they'll bother letting us know how it all turned out?

ATeam · Mar 23, 2011

This is an ongoing story with news published as developments occur, though it has mostly dropped off the front page.

Three bus crashes are now in the news; one in New York City, one in New Jersey and one in New Hampshire. The New York DOT responded quickly with a very public series of inspections. I view this as an attempt by the DOT to get ahead of the story by showing the public that they are part of the solution and not part of the problem. It didn't work.

Today's USA Today ran a piece, "Bus companies in crashes cited for safety violations."

Excerpt:

"Two tour bus companies involved in fatal crashes this month have not received full government safety audits in more than two years, even though roadside inspections found problems that were serious enough to place them on "alert" status.

"The two companies are among hundreds of motor coach operators that have been cited for major safety violations but have faced little oversight of their full operations, a USA TODAY analysis of government records found."

The analysis is of records recently made publicly available by the FMCSA. The release of that information was challenged at the time (see this).

Since its release the public data has been horribly misused by journalists who -- among other things -- do an inaccurate and superficial analysis of the data and report violations that make truckers and carriers look bad because many of the so-called "fatigued driving" violations have nothing to do with the physical condition of the driver.

The USA Today piece, offers a new twist, using the data to put the DOT in the cross hairs. It that the the DOT/FMCSA has been hoisted with their own petard.

jansiemoo · Mar 24, 2011

The most intriguing part of this whole ordeal is that the DOT did a special sting after the second crash and inspected 14 buses in Manhattan. ALL were in violation. I think eight had to be towed, the rest had to have new drivers finish the runs. 14 for 14 is not a good sign.