I-95 Bus Crash Caused By TT?

jansiemoo

Seasoned Expediter
I read about this crash on USA Today and NYTimes, there seems to be conflicting info so far of whether the bus was hit from behind, side-swiped, or just overeacted to being near the truck. They have not found the truck yet. Also noted was the bus company had recently been flagged for fatigued drivers, although the safe stats are satisfactory. I am wondering how this will pan out...

http://nyti.ms/e7ZVhc
 

purgoose10

Veteran Expediter
This is a good subject. I-95 and tour buses. Those buses running out of New York and other points heading to Florida with Gram ma and Grandpa for the once in a lifetime family reunion. Everybody here knows what it feels like to run from NYC to Tampa non stop. Have you ever seen a Tour Bus stopped for anything other than a flat????
To me they are the most dangerous thing on 95 in the summer.
And what beautiful buses they run, (I'm being ugly here).
 

BillChaffey

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
US Navy
The Bus was coming back from the Indian Casinos around Ledyard Ct. Easy to blame some other vehicle that''s not around.
 

dieseldiva

Veteran Expediter
The Bus was coming back from the Indian Casinos around Ledyard Ct. Easy to blame some other vehicle that''s not around.

True enough and which one of us hasn't been passed by a bus running like it was stolen.......BUT......I read that the truck was in the passing lane and either crossed over into the lane beside him or possibly side swiped the bus.....so in the spirit of fairness, which one of us hasn't been passed by a TT that's drifting into our lane? Also in fairness to both drivers, if this took place where I'm thinking, it's very narrow and not much room for errors.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
There are several different versions being described, such as which lane the bus was in, and which the t/t was in, and whether the t/t clipped the bus, or the driver simply overreacted to a perceived possibility that it might make contact.
There's a couple red flags, like the bus company's history of accidents involving fatigued drivers, and the witness' statements that the bus was going VERY fast. Another driver for the same company pointed out how easy it is to overreact [especially likely if the driver is overly fatigued] to a 'near miss' and lose control.
Big question: did the driver sleep during the six hours between runs? If not, his 20-22 hr work day [per the other driver] is much too long for safety.
Maybe the tractor and trailer found by the state police will have some answers, or some traffic cameras - it would be good to resolve the questions.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
One other thing: locals say the exit the bus was about to take is often the scene of large vehicle crashes, because of the need to get their speed down a lot in a short distance.
It might be that the bus simply couldn't decelerate from 'very fast' to a low speed exit - at times, the posted speed for the exit appears with very little time to comply.
Most of us know to slow down a LOT before exiting, just in case, but a very tired driver may have not been all that alert, either.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Another DIFFERENT update! Passengers on the bus stories contradict that of the driver of the bus.


Official: Riders say NYC bus crash driver swerved​

NEW YORK – Passengers and witnesses to a New York City bus crash that killed 14 people are contradicting the driver's story that he was clipped by a tractor-trailer before the accident, a law-enforcement source said Sunday.

Passengers said driver Ophadell Williams swerved at times to the right for no reason before sliding off the road at dawn on Saturday and into a sign pole, the source told The Associated Press.

The official wasn't authorized to speak publicly about the probe and spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity.

The official said that passengers said they didn't feel anything hit them and that other motorists on Interstate 95 said they didn't see the bus get hit. The official said police spoke to the tractor-trailer driver, who said he was following the bus.

Williams remained hospitalized in serious condition Sunday and has not commented publicly.

Williams had told police that a tractor-trailer clipped his World Wide Tours bus just as it crossed the New York City line on a trip from the Mohegan Sun casino in in Connecticut. The victims had traveled for a quick overnight trip to the casino and were returning to New York's Chinatown.

Capt. Matthew Galvin of the NYPD's Emergency Service Unit was one of the first rescuers on the scene. He said when officers clambered into the wreckage, they found "bodies everywhere."

As many as 20 passengers were treated at area hospitals. Nine, including the driver, remained hospitalized Sunday, according to spokesmen for St. Barnabas Hospital and Jacobi Medical Center in the Bronx. Most were in critical condition.

The 14 victims — eight men and six women — all
died of blunt force trauma, said Ellen Borakove, a spokeswoman for the New York City medical examiner's office. She said the office was working with family members to identify them.

The crash happened at 5:35 a.m. Saturday, with some of the 31 passengers still asleep. The bus scraped along the guard rail for 300 feet, toppled and crashed into the support pole for a highway sign indicating the exit for the Hutchinson Parkway.
The pole knifed through the bus front to back along the window line, peeling the roof off all the way to the back tires. Most people aboard were hurled to the front of the bus on impact, said Chief Edward Kilduff of the Fire Department of New York.

The southbound lanes of the highway were closed for hours while emergency workers tended to survivors and removed bodies.

State police Maj. Michael Kopy said at a news conference Saturday night in Hawthorne, N.Y., that the crash was being handled as a criminal investigation.

"It will take a long period of time to determine what, if any, criminal acts may have occurred here," he said.

Kopy said police had received reports from witnesses that the bus driver had been speeding on the Interstate, where the limit is 55 mph.

Chung Ninh, 59, told The New York Times and NY1 News that he had been asleep in his seat, then suddenly found himself hanging upside-down from his seat belt, surrounded by the dead and screaming. One man bled from a severed arm.

Ninh said when he tried to help one bloodied woman, the driver told him to stop, because she was dead. "Forget this one. Help another one," he said the driver told him. He said he and other passengers who were able climbed out through a skylight.

Passenger Jose Hernandez, 49, said he also was asleep at the time of the crash.

"We tried to help people, but there was twisted metal in the way," Hernandez told the Times.

The bus, a 1999 Prevost, was being inspected at state police barracks. Video from a camera on the bus had been obtained by authorities but not yet analyzed, Kopy said.

The National Transportation Safety Board sent a team of investigators and planned to hold a briefing later Sunday.

Christopher Hart, the vice chairman of the NTSB, said the team would be looking at the motor carrier's safety programs, including those involving driver fatigue, as well as highway design and the bus itself. He said that part of the investigation could take several days.

Many of the passengers on the bus were Chinatown residents. They ranged in age from 20 to 50, officials said.

Chinatown community organizations offered to help victims' families cope with their loss.

Oanfa Quan, who runs a company that provides wigs and medical prostheses, said she was working with a community group called the Lin Sing Association to provide wigs in case some of the victims need them for burial.

"Usually the family wants it for their own peace of mind," she said. "Even if the casket is closed, they still want to know that their loved one looks the way they were prior to the accident."
World Wide Travel of Greater New York, the operator of the bus, said it in a statement that the company was "heartbroken" and cooperating with investigators.

"We are a family-owned company and realize words cannot begin to express our sorrow to the families of those who lost their lives or were injured in this tragic accident. Our thoughts and prayers are with them," it said.

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration records listed World Wide Travel as having at least two other accidents in which people were injured in the past 24 months. The agency flagged the company for possible extra scrutiny due to violations involving driver fatigue regulations.

The bus was one of scores that travel daily between Chinatown, in Manhattan, and the Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun casinos in southeastern Connecticut.

Mohegan Sun, in Uncasville, Conn., has estimated a fifth of its business comes from Asian spending and caters to Chinese-American gamblers. Its website has a Chinese-language section offering gaming and bus promotions.



Official: Riders say NYC bus crash driver swerved - Yahoo! News
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
As I mentioned in the first post, the stories are varied, the details unclear, because the least injured passengers [who could verify or rebut the driver's statement] were in the rear, where they saw nothing, even if awake.
Only the driver said the t/t "may" have clipped him, but that was the first thing most folks read [and some readers' comments on big trucks are downright scary!].
Later stories seem to point to driver error as more likely, with witnesses reporting the bus to authorities [before the crash] for excessive speed, and nothing at all to back up the driver's version.
The truth will be found, through the bus 'black box', and video from it's internal camera, plus roadside cameras, eventually.
Too bad some folks just need to blame someone right NOW, before knowing what actually happened. As usual.

 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Trucks and truckers are an easy target. Everyone hates us. Blame the big, bad truck.

It still may turn out to be a trucks fault but the automatic stone throwing is bad.

If it is the driver he was looking for a scapegoat. Blame a truck, everyone will buy that story.
 

BillChaffey

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
US Navy
Where #95 crosses the State line from Ct to NY is at Byram\Greenwich Ct. It's a long easy curve going to your right. The only sharp? turn is is getting off to go to White plains towards the Tappan Zee Bridge. Puts you on as I recall #287
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Cheri, who did that?? I'm not seeing what you're talking about.

No one here - I mentioned that some of the readers' comments [following the articles] were pretty scary, because they assume the bus was clipped by a t/t, and they're ready to lynch the truck driver. :mad:
It's a good thing they can't, because if they could, the poor driver would be dead before they found out they'd acted without knowing the facts.
 

dieseldiva

Veteran Expediter
No one here - I mentioned that some of the readers' comments [following the articles] were pretty scary, because they assume the bus was clipped by a t/t, and they're ready to lynch the truck driver. :mad:
It's a good thing they can't, because if they could, the poor driver would be dead before they found out they'd acted without knowing the facts.

Oh ok, I get it now. I didn't take the time to read any of the comments but you sure are right about that lynching thing, they just don't like us!

The longer this story goes on, the more turns it's taking.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
The bigger the story, the faster they present it - too fast to confirm the details of who said what, usually.
Looks like the bus driver first said he "was" clipped by a t/t, then that he "may have been" - now, police are focused more on the bus driver's speed and/or alertness than the t/t [which they located immediately, and have apparently cleared of involvement, though they aren't saying so yet.] Several passengers are now making statements that the driver 'swerved' several times before the accident, as well.
I just hope the final determination gets as much coverage, sigh.
 

jansiemoo

Seasoned Expediter
http://nyti.ms/fmX4X7

They are now saying the truck driver actually contacted investigators after the crash and that the driver and trucking co are being "very cooperative".
They have the ECM and video from the bus and the gps(qc?) from the truck.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
According to this report in the New York Post, the truck was found but no marks were found on the truck that indicate contact was made between the truck and the bus.

It irritates me that the bus driver was quick to blame a trucker. It irritates me more that the bus companies so-called "fatigued driving" statistics are being trumpeted in the news.

Journalists who do not specialize in the trucking industry do not understand that "fatigued driving" violations, as defined by the FMCSA, often have nothing to do with the physical condition of a driver.

If you forgot to sign your log book one day and got written up for it by a scale cop later in the week, it would be classified by the FMCSA as a fatigued driving violation. You might have been wide awake and forgot to sign your log book because you got distracted by an incoming phone call while you were working on your book. That does not matter. The FMCSA says yours is a fatigued driving violation.

This fatigued driving label is one of many shortcomings in the CSA system that the FMCSA is rolling out.

Not that it is a good thing, but expediters should know that there are some well known expedite carriers whose safety records make this bus company look like a pillar of safety responsibility in comparison.

If a truck leased to one of these expedite companies in involved in a newsworthy wreck, you can be sure the reporters will be all over the FMCSA's newly released CSA stats to broadcast the carrier's fatigued driving violations, equipment maintenance violations and other evil deeds. You might have a perfect record but if you run with many of the carriers in our industry, the press will make you look like a evildoer by association.
 
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purgoose10

Veteran Expediter
The bus driver has been put out of service on another occasion. Several witnesses have come forward and stated the truck never passed the bus and that the bus ran off the road several times like the bus driver was going to sleep.

What I don't understand with all those people on board the bus why doesn't anyone do something about the driver. If he's running off the road tell him to pull over and call the cop's. :eek:
 

dieseldiva

Veteran Expediter
Doesn't sound like someone I would want to get into ANY vehicle with..................

Driver of bus that crashed in NYC, killing 15, has criminal history that includes manslaughter

By The Associated Press, Monday, March 14, 5:12 PM

NEW YORK — Investigators on Monday were examining surveillance video from a Connecticut casino as they tried to retrace the actions of a driver with a criminal history whose bus overturned in a horrific weekend crash, killing 15 people.

The investigation continued to focus on the driver, Ophadell Williams, 40, whose story that his tour bus carrying 32 people was clipped by a tractor-trailer has been contradicted by passenger and witnesses who saw him driving erratically before Saturday’s crash on Interstate 95.

The bus, taking gamblers back to Manhattan’s Chinatown after a few hours at the casino, was sheared in half by a sign pole after overturning on the highway, leaving a jumbled mess of bodies. Alcohol and drug test results for Williams were pending.

Williams was convicted of manslaughter for his role in a stabbing in 1990 and served just over two years, according to New York State Department of Correctional Services. He had initially been charged with second-degree murder.

He also served about three years, from 1998 through the middle of 2002, for grand larceny for removing an $83,905 check from a Police Athletic League fund, according to Linda Foglia, correctional services spokeswoman. Williams used aliases in both those cases.

He also was arrested by New York City police on June 4, 2003, for driving with a suspended license, and for possession police radios. In 1987, he was arrested on charges of trying to get on public transportation without paying.

New York State Police Investigator Joseph Becerra wouldn’t say specifically what police were seeking from surveillance video. He said the video was from inside and outside the Mohegan Sun casino in Uncasville, Conn.

“We’re trying to recreate his whereabouts while he was there,” Becerra said. He said police hoped to see video from the time the bus arrived Friday night to its departure early Saturday.

Meanwhile, a 70-year-old man died Monday morning at St. Barnabas’ Hospital in the Bronx, bringing the death toll to 15.

State police also identified all but two of the victims. Officials said most were of Chinese descent, not all of their ages were available.

Miguel Aquino, 55; Kam Ming Eng, 81; Yuk Chun Eng; Jose Garcia; Bing Fong Lee; Don Lee, 76; Biqun Mei; Ninh Tran; Jian Hua Wan, 40; May Lin Won; Ock Thling, 83; Yang T. Xian; and Michael Yeh, 65.

Becerra said an accident reconstruction team, and the National Transportation Safety Board, were trying to determine the cause of the accident and the speed of the bus at the time of the crash. The NTSB scheduled a news conference for later Monday.

Becerra said if the investigation “reveals that any laws were broken, appropriate charges will be filed.” He said he could not predict when or if that might happen. District attorneys from both the Bronx and Westchester County were involved because the crash occurred on the city line, Becerra said.

He would not disclose anything Williams had told police during their interview of him.

Becerra said it appears Williams did not get a room at the casino.

The casino has a lounge for bus drivers with coffee, soda, snacks and televisions, Mohegan Sun President Jeff Hartmann said. He said he did not know whether Williams was in the lounge before the trip.

“We don’t keep track of them. They’re on their own,” he told The Associated Press. He said the casino was cooperating with police.

The bus was one of scores that travel daily between Chinatown and the casinos in southeastern Connecticut. The Mohegan Sun caters to Chinese-American gamblers and has estimated that one-fifth of its business comes from Asian spending. Hartmann said 44,000 buses visit the casino annually from around the region.

Williams, who was released from the hospital on Sunday, was at home in Brooklyn on Monday but did not appear outside. His friend and neighbor, Francisco Rivera, said Williams was a safe driver.

“I think something else happened. ... I’ve been in a car with him several times and I’ve never seen him drive crazy ... or swerve,” Williams said.

He said there was a death in Williams’ family this year and a younger brother was lost “to the streets.”

“And now this happens to him. Everybody’s just messed up in the family right now,” he said.

On Sunday, the NTSB said it had interviewed passengers but not the driver. Vice Chairman Christopher Hart said the board planned to talk to the bus company, World Wide Travel, about its fatigue-management program and to see if the driver checked into a room at the casino. A blood sample has been taken from him to check for drugs and alcohol.

The company, which didn’t return messages on Monday, has said it was cooperating.

At City Hall on Monday, two Democratic politicians asked the NTSB to go beyond its investigation of Saturday’s crash and examine the regulations governing low-cost tour buses in general.

Sen. Charles Schumer and Rep. Nydia Velasquez released a letter to the board that said, “There is ample evidence that the incident involving World Wide Tours is not an isolated incident but rather just one example of an industry that in many cases is operating outside the bounds of city, state and federal transportation safety guidelines.”

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration records listed World Wide Travel as having at least two other accidents in which people were injured in the past 24 months. The agency flagged the company for possible extra scrutiny due to violations involving driver fatigue regulations.

Copyright 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

I mentioned in a previous post the high speed drive-bys that we all get from these buses....take that one step further and ask yourself how many commercial buses you've seen pulled over by a state trooper and then compare that number with the number of trucks you've seen. If your count is anything like mine, the trucks are too many to number while the buses may be one in 8+ years of driving. There's more people out there with blood on their hands but you'll never hear about them.
 
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