How Ron Paul's Minions Plan to Hijack the GOP Convention

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
When I say that Paul has no fire, I mean in his gut. He never sat out to win. He did not believe he could, his campaign reflected that.
I think you are correct (about him not thinking he could win early on) ... that however did change awhile back (Paul and the campaign actually acknowledged this)

Where he's at on it currently, I dunno ... it certainly has to be disheartening seeing the system and the process being gamed like it is ...

To fix what's wrong at the top, we need to start by fixing what is wrong at the bottom ....

When I voted this past Tuesday I made it a point to tell the poll worker that was manning the ESS optical scanning machine that they needed to chuck that piece of corrupt junk and go back to counting votes by hand in public ....

She was ..... stunned ....

She tried to tell me that they did count the ballots (they count the ballots - not the votes - to make sure ballot count agrees with the scan count)

I told her that was next to worthless .... since it's been proven that the optical scanners can be easily hacked to manipulate the results ... suggested she might wanna watch the HBO Special "Hacking Democracy" ....

I was pretty loud (to ensure others would hear) .... there was probably 20 people there in the room at the church (3 precincts) ... I had at least half of them listening before I left ...

I kept it short enough to avoid getting thrown out or escorted off the premises .... but the poor lady looked shell-shocked by the time I left ....

Planting seeds ....
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
You cannot raise awareness without a free, independent press. We don't have on.
I was going say something to your earlier comments on the press but hadn't gotten to it yet.

I think you are exactly spot on re: an independent press.

But I also think that it's actually happening (thank the internet) ... the traditional media is creating it's own demise .... only a matter of time ....

No a small minority, no matter how relentless, is still a minority and they will still lose.
I disagree - because it is a small minority that determines the outcome of every election - the swing voters - and they actually win.

I've heard it said that we gained our liberty initially because of such small relentless minority - 1/3 didn't care and stayed home, another 1/3 supported the crown, and the last 1/3 fought and won against the odds.

I haven't actually read the full history of it, but it sounds plausible .... and I like the idea ... :)
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I was going say something to your earlier comments on the press but hadn't gotten to it yet.

I think you are exactly spot on re: an independent press.

But I also think that it's actually happening (thank the internet) ... the traditional media is creating it's own demise .... only a matter of time ....


I disagree - because it is a small minority that determines the outcome of every election - the swing voters - and they actually win.

I've heard it said that we gained our liberty initially because of such small relentless minority - 1/3 didn't care and stayed home, another 1/3 supported the crown, and the last 1/3 fought and won against the odds.

I haven't actually read the full history of it, but it sounds plausible .... and I like the idea ... :)

I was taught that it took 10% of the population to win an armed revolt. It is, however, that Obama has already been 'chosen' to win. Early voting will destroy any chance of a 'fee election'. Also, watch for them to find a way to insure that the troops overseas don't get a vote.

Obama and his followers are Evil.
 

pelicn

Veteran Expediter
To fix what's wrong at the top, we need to start by fixing what is wrong at the bottom ....

Rlent, I quoted only part of your comment, because it is the most IMPORTANT part. No matter what happens in the presidential election, if we don't start at the local level nothing will change. I am a Ron Paul supporter and I will NOT compromise on that, but until the STATES take their rights back ( which they won't because they LOVE that borrowed FEDERAL MONEY) nothing will change! The GOP machine is just that, a machine that will bring their own "brand" of BIG Government...nothing will change. We as a Nation, can only survive if we break up that MONSTER called DC and get back to the original intent of the founders.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Rlent, I quoted only part of your comment, because it is the most IMPORTANT part. No matter what happens in the presidential election, if we don't start at the local level nothing will change. I am a Ron Paul supporter and I will NOT compromise on that, but until the STATES take their rights back ( which they won't because they LOVE that borrowed FEDERAL MONEY) nothing will change! The GOP machine is just that, a machine that will bring their own "brand" of BIG Government...nothing will change. We as a Nation, can only survive if we break up that MONSTER called DC and get back to the original intent of the founders.

Fewer and fewer people believe in their own rights let alone the rights of the State. Far too many are more concerned,a and believe that they have a "right", to be cared for by the Federal government at the expense of hard working people.
 

pelicn

Veteran Expediter
Yes and that will be our Nation's downfall! If only our STATES would step up and put a stop to the Federal Government we would be better off, but you see, the STATES are in on it. They can not continue to spend money they don't have without the Federal Government sending those "borrowed" dollars to them. As much as I hate the thought of another Obama term, maybe that is what is needed for the American people to WAKE UP! Our LIBERTY and our FREEDOM is at stake and we will be the generation that lost it. Look at history.... :(
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Yes and that will be our Nation's downfall! If only our STATES would step up and put a stop to the Federal Government we would be better off, but you see, the STATES are in on it. They can not continue to spend money they don't have without the Federal Government sending those "borrowed" dollars to them. As much as I hate the thought of another Obama term, maybe that is what is needed for the American people to WAKE UP! Our LIBERTY and our FREEDOM is at stake and we will be the generation that lost it. Look at history.... :(

I don't know about your State, mine, Michigan, is overrun with Obama bums. Lazy and dependent. Shoot, even lottery winners with 1/2 million in the bank BELIEVE that they are ENTITLED to others money. Nothing but welfare rangers and medicaid mamas. Those who want to work are in the minority.
 
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davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I don't know about your State, mine, Michigan, is overrun with Obama bums. Lazy and dependent. Shoot, even lottery winners with 1/2 million in the bank BELIEVE that they are ENTITLED to others money. Nothing but welfare rangers and medicaid mamas. Those who want to work are in the minority.

That is why the chances are good we have another four of Obama.:( Rupublicans will wind up with Romney and his chances of winning are tied to gas prices continuing to climb. If they get high enough people will take an alternative no matter who it is.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Here's an interesting thought about starting at the bottom...

It's well known (to most, I suppose) that incompetent people usually have an inability to recognize their own limitations. But what happens when you apply that finding to politics?

People Aren't Smart Enough for Democracy to Flourish, Scientists Say - Yahoo! News

From the article: "The democratic process relies on the assumption that citizens can recognize the best political candidate, or best policy idea. But a growing body of research has revealed an unfortunate aspect of the human psyche that would seem to disprove this notion, and imply instead that democratic elections produce mediocre leadership and policies."

"The research shows that incompetent people are inherently unable to judge the competence of other people, or the quality of those people's ideas. If people lack expertise on tax reform, it is very difficult for them to identify the candidates who are actual experts. They simply lack the mental tools needed to make meaningful judgments...democracies rarely or never elect the best leaders. Their advantage over dictatorships or other forms of government is merely that they "effectively prevent lower-than-average candidates from becoming leaders."
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Here's an interesting thought about starting at the bottom...

It's well known (to most, I suppose) that incompetent people usually have an inability to recognize their own limitations. But what happens when you apply that finding to politics?

People Aren't Smart Enough for Democracy to Flourish, Scientists Say - Yahoo! News

From the article: "The democratic process relies on the assumption that citizens can recognize the best political candidate, or best policy idea. But a growing body of research has revealed an unfortunate aspect of the human psyche that would seem to disprove this notion, and imply instead that democratic elections produce mediocre leadership and policies."

"The research shows that incompetent people are inherently unable to judge the competence of other people, or the quality of those people's ideas. If people lack expertise on tax reform, it is very difficult for them to identify the candidates who are actual experts. They simply lack the mental tools needed to make meaningful judgments...democracies rarely or never elect the best leaders. Their advantage over dictatorships or other forms of government is merely that they "effectively prevent lower-than-average candidates from becoming leaders."


This article kinda brings a couple things to light, so to speak. One, the public school system is doing it's job. It has been used for several decades to 'dumb down' the population. Second, the 'push' is on to make the idea of a 'benevolent dictatorship' in the United Soviet Socialist States, more acceptable. That will soon come to pass. Although, I doubt that it will be very benevolent.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I don't know about your State, mine, Michigan, is overrun with Obama bums. Lazy and dependent. Shoot, even lottery winners with 1/2 million in the bank BELIEVE that they are ENTITLED to others money. Nothing but welfare rangers and medicaid mamas. Those who want to work are in the minority.

Why is it that people think that this is all a democrat thing, when in fact the republicans have the same amount of people voting who are welfare rangers, medicaid mamas.

Our state is overrun with idiots of all shapes and sizes with no one political party leading the pack. If you would travel a bit around the state outside of hunting season you can see it for yourself. Most of those republicans sit around one county, kissing the ring of the king maker there, while an equal amount of democrats are in the next county and actually flourishing. The majority of the population sits in the south east section of the state but if you travel outside this area of despair, you will find a lot of right leaning people in the majority but all of them seem to have the same thing in common - ME First.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Why is it that people think that this is all a democrat thing, when in fact the republicans have the same amount of people voting who are welfare rangers, medicaid mamas.

Our state is overrun with idiots of all shapes and sizes with no one political party leading the pack. If you would travel a bit around the state outside of hunting season you can see it for yourself. Most of those republicans sit around one county, kissing the ring of the king maker there, while an equal amount of democrats are in the next county and actually flourishing. The majority of the population sits in the south east section of the state but if you travel outside this area of despair, you will find a lot of right leaning people in the majority but all of them seem to have the same thing in common - ME First.

No Greg, I don't see all of what you see. When I get out of the "area of despair' I see people who are willing to put their lives on the line for others. They volunteer to go into burning buildings, they risk injury and disease, for no pay, to staff rural ambulances. They clean up the roads, themselves, with their own equipment when storms hit.

Sure, there are "Obama Bums" every where, but, the further you get away from the 'freebie dispensing sites" (larger cities) the percentage of them in relation to the area population, drops off.

The term "Obama Bum" has little to do with 'democrats' but more to do with the putz setting the trend in Washington. "Bush Babies" worked when he was in. On the very outside chance that Romney is elected, just as an example, they would be "Romney's Runts".
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
No Greg, I don't see all of what you see. When I get out of the "area of despair' I see people who are willing to put their lives on the line for others. They volunteer to go into burning buildings, they risk injury and disease, for no pay, to staff rural ambulances. They clean up the roads, themselves, with their own equipment when storms hit.

Not exactly what I'm talking about. I would think that putting lives on the line for others is not something unique to other parts of the country, it happens here too. I think community sprite lives on with volunteer fire and even police if that is possible.

What I mean has nothing to do with cleaning up after a storm or cleaning a road.

This would work in cities that are strapped for cash, for example my great township has been playing games with the budget and police pensions all the time complaining we have little cash but yesterday I was watching a boom truck take down banners and doing some "beautification" work, I say fire the workers, get people willing to do the work and sell the boom truck, money is more important.

But see the problem is the public worker and their union which by the way Tallcal mentioned in that other thread that was locked. I think his point was clear as is mine, the core problem is the mentality of public servants from the top down and until we, the people get the idea how it should work, we are slaves to them.

Sure, there are "Obama Bums" every where, but, the further you get away from the 'freebie dispensing sites" (larger cities) the percentage of them in relation to the area population, drops off.

You know here is the thing that gets me, in order for you to get rid of them, you have to do two things - fight to reintroduce liberty and stand back when something happens that you don't like that other people do.

It is that simple.

This breaks the back of the bureaucracy that was created to feed the bureaucracy and keep people in power.

The term "Obama Bum" has little to do with 'democrats' but more to do with the putz setting the trend in Washington. "Bush Babies" worked when he was in. On the very outside chance that Romney is elected, just as an example, they would be "Romney's Runts".

But he isn't setting the trend, that was done back when the system was created. The expansion of the system wasn't done to help people but to keep those in power, in power. YOU want to end it, find someone like Paul who is willing to try to break these things up and who has radical ideas that just need to be tried.

Like the Fairtax, you are opposed to anything that may work. The Fairtax has to have a chance to work before it can be deemed not working and then we can try something else. Even though taxes are a problem, the real problem is how we are being approached on a political level with them, there is too much ambiguity and with the fairtax there isn't any, it is simple and out in the open.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Not exactly what I'm talking about. I would think that putting lives on the line for others is not something unique to other parts of the country, it happens here too. I think community sprite lives on with volunteer fire and even police if that is possible.

What I mean has nothing to do with cleaning up after a storm or cleaning a road.

This would work in cities that are strapped for cash, for example my great township has been playing games with the budget and police pensions all the time complaining we have little cash but yesterday I was watching a boom truck take down banners and doing some "beautification" work, I say fire the workers, get people willing to do the work and sell the boom truck, money is more important.

But see the problem is the public worker and their union which by the way Tallcal mentioned in that other thread that was locked. I think his point was clear as is mine, the core problem is the mentality of public servants from the top down and until we, the people get the idea how it should work, we are slaves to them.



You know here is the thing that gets me, in order for you to get rid of them, you have to do two things - fight to reintroduce liberty and stand back when something happens that you don't like that other people do.

It is that simple.

This breaks the back of the bureaucracy that was created to feed the bureaucracy and keep people in power.



But he isn't setting the trend, that was done back when the system was created. The expansion of the system wasn't done to help people but to keep those in power, in power. YOU want to end it, find someone like Paul who is willing to try to break these things up and who has radical ideas that just need to be tried.

Like the Fairtax, you are opposed to anything that may work. The Fairtax has to have a chance to work before it can be deemed not working and then we can try something else. Even though taxes are a problem, the real problem is how we are being approached on a political level with them, there is too much ambiguity and with the fairtax there isn't any, it is simple and out in the open.

A straight sales tax. NO pre-bates, rebate or what ever they call it. NO double taxes. ONE tax per item. Federal fuel tax? No sales tax. etc.

You have your ideas, I have mine, neither are going to be enacted by Obama, Romney or Paul, it makes no difference
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Wow you didn't read the other stuff?

Yep, no need to comment. Nothing is going to change what we have. There are far more 'do nothing's' now than there are 'do something's' The plan has worked. The rest will take place when things get ripe. It is how it is.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Then I would think that my idea for term limits and for repealing the 17th amendment and a path to recall by the state is better looking than sitting here and complaining about how things are.

Right??
 
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