How Long Before This Happens Here.....

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
It is this reason that may be the proverbial straw for me coming off the road. We live a stone's throw from Inkster, MI, which will be a hot bed if riots start. I need to talk the woman into letting me buy a couple of shotguns.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Too many to list here, but the big one is Clinton's “The National Homeownership Strategy: Partners in the American Dream” directive which said, essentially, everyone deserves to own a home.

What Clinton said exactly was nothing of the sort - he cited the need for assistance to "young WORKING couples" in a [post WalMart] economy where income doesn't allow for saving for a down payment, as our parents did. Every single solitary word is about the "people who are doing it right" and still not getting there, not about "everyone deserves a house".
The "American Dream" has always been about working for it, and that used to be enough - but it isn't anymore.
It certainly wasn't meant to enrich the flippers, but they sure got their profits, didn't they?:mad:

 

Dakota

Veteran Expediter
No you're not. It's like a Mini Cooper, it only SEEMS like you're in the mood for one. But your body will definitely tell you differently afterwards. :eek:

I love Shepards Pie. I also like the baked beans and bacon and eggs for breakfast
Also I drive a car that is nearly the size of a mini cooper...mine just has four doors
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Too many to list here, but the big one is Clinton's “The National Homeownership Strategy: Partners in the American Dream” directive which said, essentially, everyone deserves to own a home.

What Clinton said exactly was nothing of the sort - he cited the need for assistance to "young WORKING couples" in a [post WalMart] economy where income doesn't allow for saving for a down payment, as our parents did. Every single solitary word is about the "people who are doing it right" and still not getting there, not about "everyone deserves a house".
The "American Dream" has always been about working for it, and that used to be enough - but it isn't anymore.
It certainly wasn't meant to enrich the flippers, but they sure got their profits, didn't they?:mad:

What Clinton said to us, and what he said to the banks, are two different things. Basically, he told the banks to "Do what you have to to get more minorities owning homes." And they did. And we suffered for it. And we bailed them out.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
I love Shepards Pie. I also like the baked beans and bacon and eggs for breakfast
Also I drive a car that is nearly the size of a mini cooper...mine just has four doors

I love Shepherd's Pie too... in Canada!

Heaven is: an American salary, an English house, a Chinese cook, and a Japanese wife.
Hell is: a Chinese salary, a Japanese house, an English cook, and an American wife.
-- Peter Kegelman
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Too many to list here, but the big one is Clinton's “The National Homeownership Strategy: Partners in the American Dream” directive which said, essentially, everyone deserves to own a home.

What Clinton said exactly was nothing of the sort - he cited the need for assistance to "young WORKING couples" in a [post WalMart] economy where income doesn't allow for saving for a down payment, as our parents did. Every single solitary word is about the "people who are doing it right" and still not getting there, not about "everyone deserves a house".
The "American Dream" has always been about working for it, and that used to be enough - but it isn't anymore.
It certainly wasn't meant to enrich the flippers, but they sure got their profits, didn't they?:mad:
I was being somewhat sarcastic with the "everyone deserves a house" crack, but that initiative and a large portion of Clinton's goals were about raising people's standard of living. The "young WORKING couples" you mention above who need that assistance, would see their standard of living go up if the assistance were provided.

We have to remember that there are millions of people just like them who believe that home ownership is out of reach. They may be paying monthly rents that could cover a mortgage payment. They may scrape to save, but a downpayment is still out of reach. They are locked out by rigid restrictions or by a home-buying system just, as Jean said, too difficult or too frightening. And that is not right.
That's a quote from Bill Clinton in his remarks on the National Homeownership Strategy. Everything about that paragraph says those people deserve to be able to put a downpayment on a house, and thus that they serve a higher standard of living.

No person, even the President, can look at these young people and say, I will guarantee you, no matter what happens in the global economy, you will always have the job you have today, and you'll make more money next year than you did this year. You know no one can guarantee that in the global economy. That's not the way the world works anymore.

But we can guarantee to people that we're going to empower them to help themselves. We'll make home ownership more accessible. We'll make lifetime education and training more accessible. We'll make the things that make life work for people who are trying to do the best they can for themselves there. We have to begin with the basic things that make it worth doing.
Seems to me that he's saying that people who do work hard deserve to reap the rewards rather than have to accept the crappy cards they've currently been dealt. Everything about the above is about raising the standard of living because people who work hard for it deserve it.

What we are doing today will allow more homes to be blessed by more families. I hope it will start all these young people on a path that will take them to great joys in their personal lives, and perhaps to other homes, but something they will always know that their country wanted them to have because they were entitled to it as a part of the American dream.
That certainly seems like "something of the sort" to me.

The question you posed was, "
Can anyone cite even ONE instance of people being told they 'deserve a certain standard of living' [other than minimal necessities]?" Well, that's one example, unless you need a specific quote where someone said it to someone using those exact words which didn't involve a luxury apartment or a Rolex.


One quote in his comments that really stand out, though, is:
Our home ownership strategy will not cost the taxpayers one extra cent. It will not require legislation. It will not add more Federal programs or grow Federal bureaucracy.
Wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong.

It reminds me of Teddy Kennedy's equally fatal prophetic comments when he pushed Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 reforms through when he stated: "First, our cities will not be flooded with a million immigrants annually. Under the proposed bill, the present level of immigration remains substantially the same.... Secondly, the ethnic mix of this country will not be upset.... Contrary to the charges in some quarters, [the bill] will not inundate America with immigrants from any one country or area, or the most populated and deprived nations of Africa and Asia.... In the final analysis, the ethnic pattern of immigration under the proposed measure is not expected to change as sharply as the critics seem to think.... It will not cause American workers to lose their jobs."

Wrong on all counts.


I was about to comment on the flawed comparisons to the "President Roosevelt created the Federal Housing Administration and made home ownership available to millions of Americans who couldn't afford it before that," and the "Harry Truman rewarded service men and women with the GI bill of rights, which created the VA Home Loan Guarantee Program," and how during those times we had a strong manufacturing-based economy, relatively good job security, and sustained low unemployment, none of which we had when Clinton set this mess in motion, but then I remembered what this thread was about, so I'll refrain from commenting on it. :D


BTW, Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the engineers are German, the administrators are Swiss and the lovers are Italian.

Hell is where the police are German, the cooks are British,
the engineers are Italian, the administrators are French
and the lovers are Swiss.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Retail is not a job to be buying a house on. Young couples starting out SHOULD be using their retail job to help pay for an upgrade of their skill so they can get a job that pays enough to buy a house. They can get into apprenticeships, or tech schools and do as well or even better than many college grads do. Skills are always in demand.

Many today also believe that they are entitled to free or subsidized health care.
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
Retail is not a job to be buying a house on. Young couples starting out SHOULD be using their retail job to help pay for an upgrade of their skill so they can get a job that pays enough to buy a house. They can get into apprenticeships, or tech schools and do as well or even better than many college grads do. Skills are always in demand.

Many today also believe that they are entitled to free or subsidized health care.



I know I'm fighting a losing battle on this one, but here goes LOL ......


Isn't it a citizens right to have good health - not just for those that can afford to pay for good health?

Therefore isn't it a Governments obligation to maintain the good health of its citizens?



:rolleyes:
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
[/B]


I know I'm fighting a losing battle on this one, but here goes LOL ......


Isn't it a citizens right to have good health - not just for those that can afford to pay for good health?

Nope.

Therefore isn't it a Governments obligation to maintain the good health of its citizens?



:rolleyes:

Nope. I could say I have a right to 3 wanton women a night; but that doesn't make it so.

Good health is up to the individual. Getting healthcare is also up to the individual, unless your state has a plan covering you. It's not for the federal government to come in, take over 12-16% of the GNP, and dictate who gets what procedure. It just isn't.
 
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Dakota

Veteran Expediter
I love Shepherd's Pie too... in Canada!

Heaven is: an American salary, an English house, a Chinese cook, and a Japanese wife.
Hell is: a Chinese salary, a Japanese house, an English cook, and an American wife.
-- Peter Kegelman

I should say I love real Shepherd's pie, alot of place use beef here and call it Shepherd's pie when it should be lamb!!!
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
Ever make spotted dick?:D:eek:

Seriously though, if you car to share the recipe for Shephard's Pie, please PM me.


Errr that would be a no .... can't even bring myself to order that in a restaurant :eek:



Will do .... but its a secret recipe ..... now how does that saying go?

If I tell you I will have to .......... :p
 

dieseldiva

Veteran Expediter
[/B]


I know I'm fighting a losing battle on this one, but here goes LOL ......


Isn't it a citizens right to have good health - not just for those that can afford to pay for good health?

Therefore isn't it a Governments obligation to maintain the good health of its citizens?



:rolleyes:

Thawk is correct. Maybe our opinions differ because of our different cultures. If you believe, as our founders did, that your "rights" are God given then it narrows the description. If you were raised in a country were the government supplied all these things to it's citizens then that would seem perfectly normal to you.

What we conservatives are trying to do is reverse that thought pattern here and stop it from seeping into future generations as we believe that more government in your life means less liberty and we're all about liberty.



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EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
Thawk is correct. Maybe our opinions differ because of our different cultures. If you believe, as our founders did, that your "rights" are God given then it narrows the description. If you were raised in a country were the government supplied all these things to it's citizens then that would seem perfectly normal to you.

What we conservatives are trying to do is reverse that thought pattern here and stop it from seeping into future generations as we believe that more government in your life means less liberty and we're all about liberty.



Posted with my Droid EO Forum App


I truly am trying to understand this concept but I find it incredulous that, for a first world nation, so many ppl cannot see a doctor or buy the meds they need or have an operation they need because they cannot afford it - or those that do end up paying the price of a mortgage for upteen years.

Money is indeed the root of all evil.

Please do not think we are supplied healthcare - it is not free - it is paid for in our taxes - which are taken at source.
Granted if you don't work you still get healthcare, as would you if you were to fall ill in the UK, that still does not make it "free" though.

I really think that there should be some inbetween system - ours is too lenient and the US is too expensive :rolleyes:
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Health care is a personal responsibility. So is earning a living. No one is entitled to either. Our Constitution limits the scope of government. It was written to insure that the individual has control over their own lives without undue interference from government.

When government controls health care they control the very lives of the people. People are dependent on government. Government is therefore in control.

In this country the People control the government, or at least that is how it was meant to be. Far too many are willing to give up freedom for handouts. Remember the government cannot pay for health care, only people can. The more government controls the higher the costs.

People have forgotten that along with the right to succeed on their own merits and control their own destiny that they can also fail. Too many want bailed out when they refuse to accept responsibility for their own lives.

The more government takes control the more the People are enslaved.

A freeman will never be a serf. A freeman would prefer to fight and die than give in to government control.
 

dieseldiva

Veteran Expediter
I truly am trying to understand this concept but I find it incredulous that, for a first world nation, so many ppl cannot see a doctor or buy the meds they need or have an operation they need because they cannot afford it - or those that do end up paying the price of a mortgage for upteen years.

Money is indeed the root of all evil.

Please do not think we are supplied healthcare - it is not free - it is paid for in our taxes - which are taken at source.
Granted if you don't work you still get healthcare, as would you if you were to fall ill in the UK, that still does not make it "free" though.

I really think that there should be some inbetween system - ours is too lenient and the US is too expensive :rolleyes:

Understood and that's why we need reform and not a takeover of all healthcare by the government. There are many things that we could do to make it better without turning over more of our freedoms to those that think they know what's best for us.

My whole point of this post was about those with an entitlement mentality. I don't think our citizens need to be told outright that they deserve this or that but if they're raised with that thought pattern then they will likely adopt it.

Hard as some of us try, it's easy to end up with family members that think they deserve more. Everyone has at least one of these in their family, if not more and it's a big part of what's wrong with our young people today.

There are a lot of programs and charities in place to help those in need, it's not perfect but it does make a difference.



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Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
EL... what you're failing to realize is that every country going broke is doing so because of their entitlements coming home to roost. Fewer people are being taxed, and the number on "retirement" are growing.

Think of it as an engine (our country) that produces an increasing amount of smoke (entitlements) that runs on an ever-decreasing amount of oil (tax paying citizens). Eventually, there will be too little oil to run the machine; and it will break. That's where we, and Europe, and China are now.
 
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