How Are You Getting Paid for Tolls?

[Turtle]

So...If it were to become excessive, then id start asking for compensation, but it isn't. To me those thing are just a fact of doing business...not abig deal and i don't see the need to be compensated for them...

That's fine, more power to you. But do keep in mind that that thinking is not the norm in the industry. Services are performed, compensation is paid. That's how it works.

Oh and as for hand unloading, only if the customer is a jerk about it, then ill call and get paid, other then that, nope.....

One can take the whole "no touch freight" to absurd levels. Most any of us will help load or unload without expecting compensation. A few pieces here or there, not too heavy, etc. But if it's gonna take an hour or two, 85 boxes off a 2200 pound skid that goes from the van up onto a dock, or up a freight elevator to the 17th floor, not so much.

And I'll continue to do as i do now....

...its how i did it at my previous carrier also, never put in for any of it, never called to ask for any of it....

And what carrier were you with before that? I'm just pointing out your extensive experience, that you may have led a somewhat sheltered life, which has clouded your thinking and left you ignorant about a few things. It can and does happen in this business. I know one driver, for example, who was with three carriers before his current carrier, and at all three he never got paid for detention or inside deliveries. That was part of the job, he thought. He was shocked to find that his current carrier pays him extra for an inside delivery and detention, despite him hearing about other drivers getting paid for it. So I'm just pointing out it's easy to live life in a bubble out here.

Also, pointing out that it makes little professional or business sense to fail to charge a customer for a chargeable service. We all remember the pallet and debris removal extravaganza thread, but Phil was spot-on about that being a chargeable service, for all of the reasons that came out in that thread.

well there was no "layover pay"...which is the industry std....and yes it is appreciated, but not really neccessary, because as we all point out to newbies, "sitting and waiting is part of the deal"......

As Phil pointed out, it may or may not be part of the deal. Layover while loaded in terms of a 500 mile run picking up on Friday that cannot deliver until Monday is not part of the uncompensated deal, by and large, usually, for the most part. Sometimes it is, for a variety of reasons, but with exclusive use of the truck it's the customer who is responsible for you being hijacked for an extra two days without pay, and they should be paying for that use. I once had to sit on a load for five days, and there was never a single thought about my doing that for free. I was well paid for my time and exclusive use. (Well paid by even Panther standards, BTW.)

I do know, for a fact, that my previous carrier on many occasions billed the customer for layover, and did not pass that on to me unless I asked for it, and even then they'd sometimes tell me they have one day of layover in there when in reality they had two. Money grubbing cheapskates. <hrmph> Same also happened on more than one occasion with East Coast tolls, where they charged the customer and then made no mention of it to me. I nailed them to the wall once on that one. After that, I always asked to get it on record. Several times I ended up getting money that wasn't there, but later magically turned up.

If by layover you mean the layover pay we get from Load 1 for having to sit and wait on a load, no, that's not industry standard. That's a very generous perk, jut one among many, that we get at Load 1.

Oh and for what it is worth, my wife thinks i am nuts also...she would agree with you...but i ain't changed it for her either...

I never said you were nuts. I said you were crazy. Oh, wait... did I say you were nuts? I might have. Sounds like something I'd say. Yeah, I probably did. Never mind.

 

[CharlesD]

The important thing isn't whether or not you feel that you want money for being detained or not or if that extra stop is right on your way or not. A lot of times a driver will tell me not to worry about trying to get things like detention or dry run or extra stop or what not, but I feel obligated to get as much as possible. If anything, I think detention and dry run charges should be doubled to send a message to shippers and consignees that the driver's time is worth as much as theirs is and they should do everything in their power to get that truck taken care of in an expedient manner.

The other huge problem is dry runs. I know I haven't been in this business nearly long as many on here, but I'm pretty convinced that there are way more load cancellations now than there were when I started. Does anyone actually believe that the load is actually cancelling every time that happens? Freight is being shopped a lot more now than it used to be and it's not uncommon to see a load pulled after being awarded because the shipper or someone farther up the food chain simply found someone cheaper. The dry run charges need to be high enough to make people think twice about doing something like that.

Here's an example that happened to me when I was still on the road. I was in Texas and not seeing much freight out so I booked a load from another carrier that was picking up the next day in Little Rock. I deadheaded over into Arkansas and got as far as Texarkana and decided to stop there at the J for some sleep before going on over to Little Rock the next day to pick up the load. The next morning I woke up and got out of my van to go in to the restroom before pulling out and saw a van parked next to me with the logo of the carrier I had gotten the load from. The driver was also getting out of his van and we struck up a conversation, the usual where are you headed talk. He told me that he was headed over to Little Rock to pick up a couple skids going to Norfolk. I remarked the coincidence that I was also headed to Little Rock to pick up two skids going to Norfolk. When I was walking out of the restroom my phone rang and it was the other carrier telling me that the "customer cancelled that load." I told them that I wanted $200 for the dry run and they were trying to tell me that since it was still over three hours until the pick up time and I wasn't at the shipper, they didn't think they should charge the "customer" for the dry run. I asked if their driver who was headed there to pick up the same load had also had his load cancelled as well. I ended up getting $250.

So now when a load cancels, whether the driver wants the money or not, we're going after it, every penny we can get. If people are going to play those kinds of games, then it should cost them.

 

[jaminjim]

Chef we also tell newbies that they need to treat expediting as a business. Asking your Carrier to cut your pay is not treating it like a business. Suggesting that your Carrier stop paying the fleet money that it wants to pay your fellow O/O's is Treasonous . j/k

 

[Steady Eddie]

Man, what a tread! Note: to newbes. Get all pay you can, tolls, wait time, hand load or unload. Your carrier will thank you for increasing your and thier revenue. Your time is worth something as mine is, and dispatchers, if my carrier can bill it I get it. They can not bill it if I do not let them know.

Maybe this tread should be renamed "How Are you Getting Paid, and Why Are you Not Getting Paid What You Should"

 

[moose]

I'm Paying to use the Hwy with my fuel taxes.
if the Gov. decided to charge me twice for using MY (now) hwy again, i make dern sure to pass it on to the person paying to move the freight.
the only exception is the M.A turn pike, which is not a part of the US HWY system, and there for is not reported at my travel trip report for IFTA.

My Expedite carrier gave me an EZ pass device,
and where EZPass not working then what Dave/Dave/Turtle/Ateam said.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

all I can say is wow...all the experts have chimed in......

 

[ATeam]

The other huge problem is dry runs....

So now when a load cancels, whether the driver wants the money or not, we're going after it, every penny we can get. If people are going to play those kinds of games, then it should cost them.

Bless you, brother!

When Diane and I were with FedEx Custom Critical, we got to know the hard way a shipper who happily booked a truck to have one if needed, and then canceled the run if it was not. This shipper was located in remote Texas and we would not know if the load would cancel until we arrived to pick it up. The freight was such that the shipper did not know if it would ship just then.

FedEx only charged the shipper $250 for a dry run, regardless of the fact that we invested, in good faith, a significant amount of time and miles to get to the pick up. After that happened twice, we refused to serve that shipper again.

A time then came when we were the only available truck qualified to handle this shipper's load. We explained the history and said we would be happy to cover the load if the carrier would assume the risk of yet another cancellation. If the carrier would promise in writing (Qualcomm) to pay us enough money to make the run profitable even if the load canceled, we would be pleased to serve this customer. But if we were the ones being asked to take the risk with this shipper who was already known to act in bad faith, the answer was no.

The dispatcher consulted the supervisor. The supervisor would not agree to the deal. We said no and that was that.

This relates to the comments above where people are explaining why expediters should insist on being paid for their services. If you don't, the carriers and customers will take full advantage of your generosity without the slightest concern for your financial well-being.

In this case, the carrier was delighted to send us in to be available for the customer at our expense but was unwilling to take the financial risk themselves. When Diane and I turned the table and asked the carrier to take the financial risk, that very important customer became instantly unimportant and the carrier left the customer without a truck.

Rule of thumb: To succeed financially in expediting, you should be as protective of your profits as your carrier is protective of his.

 

[jaminjim]

all I can say is wow...all the experts have chimed in......

Think about it a minute Ken. If you need an extra $500 in deductions simply buy something for your business, or get something done on your van. No need to give money away that the Carrier wants to reimburse you for.

 

[Ragman]

all I can say is wow...all the experts have chimed in......

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Think about it a minute Ken. If you need an extra $500 in deductions simply buy something for your business, or get something done on your van. No need to give money away that the Carrier wants to reimburse you for.

Jim....this might be hard to believe....but running a cargo van at tax time the deductions far exceed the income and some deductions just go to waste.....I am always at 0 by the time the accountant is done....does that make some sense?

I guess I could take the money and just use up the used deductions and still not pay any tax right?

 

[jaminjim]

That'd be my guess.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

That'd be my guess.

Not trying to be wisecracker Jim.....But I've never mentioned the issue of tolls to me accountant since I've been Americanized.....my Canadian carrier never paid tolls so I just carried on with the same habit of deducting on my own down here...appears it was mine and mine alone mistake....

 

[chefdennis]

Let's be clear about what "we all point out to newbies."

Sitting and waiting is part of the deal for this expediter team when Diane and I have delivered a load and are next waiting for a load offer to come in. Sitting and waiting when the shipper or consignee is responsible for the sitting and waiting is called detention time.

Detention time is legitimately charged to the party that detains your truck because by detaining you, the shipper or consignee is preventing you from being available to serve another paying customer.

Ahh yea "Let's be clear"...we are talking 2 different types units and business plans...When I (and most others also) talk about "sitting and waiting" to a newbie" we are talking about AFTER a load is dropped, not detention time. And that is what my reference to that comment was about. As for Detention time, In the almost 5 yrs i have been doing this, i can count on 1 hand the number of times I would have even been entitled to detention time...again we are talking to different types of trucks....As i pointed out when talking about the issue of tolls, I might have a totally different point of view were i in a ST /TT, but i am not and weather detention time is a legitimate charge has nothing to do with my opinion on it in my situation or in my business plan...

Believe me , when i have to start worrying about tolls and layover pay and , detention time and being paid for hand loading or unloading as a "part of my income" that i figure i need to survive in this business, then ill get out of the business..

As has been pointed out years ago , i do not do this to pay my household bills. As long as this truck pays for all the expenses it incurrs on the road and i put a few bucks in the bank, thats all that matters..and the expenses that are being discussed in this thread are of minor importance in that equation....And up until today, i have done pretty good at making money and "putting a few bucks away"...

So yes, I'll continue to do as i do and you and everyone else will continue to do as you and they do. We all have different wants and needs from our businesses, so as i said earlier, this is not advise on my part, it is how i do things, don't do as i do, unless it works for you.

 

[chefdennis]

That's fine, more power to you. But do keep in mind that that thinking is not the norm in the industry. Services are performed, compensation is paid. That's how it works.

One can take the whole "no touch freight" to absurd levels. Most any of us will help load or unload without expecting compensation. A few pieces here or there, not too heavy, etc. But if it's gonna take an hour or two, 85 boxes off a 2200 pound skid that goes from the van up onto a dock, or up a freight elevator to the 17th floor, not so much.

And what carrier were you with before that? I'm just pointing out your extensive experience, that you may have led a somewhat sheltered life, which has clouded your thinking and left you ignorant about a few things. It can and does happen in this business. I know one driver, for example, who was with three carriers before his current carrier, and at all three he never got paid for detention or inside deliveries. That was part of the job, he thought. He was shocked to find that his current carrier pays him extra for an inside delivery and detention, despite him hearing about other drivers getting paid for it. So I'm just pointing out it's easy to live life in a bubble out here.

Also, pointing out that it makes little professional or business sense to fail to charge a customer for a chargeable service. We all remember the pallet and debris removal extravaganza thread, but Phil was spot-on about that being a chargeable service, for all of the reasons that came out in that thread.

As Phil pointed out, it may or may not be part of the deal. Layover while loaded in terms of a 500 mile run picking up on Friday that cannot deliver until Monday is not part of the uncompensated deal, by and large, usually, for the most part. Sometimes it is, for a variety of reasons, but with exclusive use of the truck it's the customer who is responsible for you being hijacked for an extra two days without pay, and they should be paying for that use. I once had to sit on a load for five days, and there was never a single thought about my doing that for free. I was well paid for my time and exclusive use. (Well paid by even Panther standards, BTW.)

I do know, for a fact, that my previous carrier on many occasions billed the customer for layover, and did not pass that on to me unless I asked for it, and even then they'd sometimes tell me they have one day of layover in there when in reality they had two. Money grubbing cheapskates. <hrmph> Same also happened on more than one occasion with East Coast tolls, where they charged the customer and then made no mention of it to me. I nailed them to the wall once on that one. After that, I always asked to get it on record. Several times I ended up getting money that wasn't there, but later magically turned up.

If by layover you mean the layover pay we get from Load 1 for having to sit and wait on a load, no, that's not industry standard. That's a very generous perk, jut one among many, that we get at Load 1.

I never said you were nuts. I said you were crazy. Oh, wait... did I say you were nuts? I might have. Sounds like something I'd say. Yeah, I probably did. Never mind.

My previous carrier paid detention time and lay over iff the truck was loaded...I seldom requested it just as i seldom do now.. I have drive home with freight that i couldn't deliver and babysat it for days, even here at Load 1...I just babysat freigjht for 2.5 days in Shreveport and when i took the load there was a "Chance" that might happen, but I didn't ask to be paid, and i wouldnt tomorrow either...

Since being at Load 1 i have Loaded from the dock 2 skids of "ticket grade printing paper in El paso texas going to wyoming...2000 lbs, it was either load it or lose it...I loaded it and didnt ask for the pay, and dispatch was not aware the the UPS site was dock high only....Another place I unloaded skids of medical equipment, again a dock high only place and a union shop and the guy wouldn't touch it...in that case, i called and wouldn't take it off until i had a new pay screen...
indoor up on even the 3rd floor delivery, never have done it since i have been in the the business.

And yes the "layover pay" i am speaking of is as i replied to Phil, AFTER the load is off the truck and the pay that comes from Load 1 and is not billable to anyone...As for any of the other, you can read most of it in the reply to Phils post...

And the calling be crazy , its all good, its what keeps me from going insans...well most if the time...

 

[OntarioVanMan]

My previous carrier paid detention time and lay over iff the truck was loaded...I seldom requested it just as i seldom do now.. I have drive home with freight that i couldn't deliver and babysat it for days, even here at Load 1...I just babysat freigjht for 2.5 days in Shreveport and when i took the load there was a "Chance" that might happen, but I didn't ask to be paid, and i wouldnt tomorrow either...

Since being at Load 1 i have Loaded from the dock 2 skids of "ticket grade printing paper in El paso texas going to wyoming...2000 lbs, it was either load it or lose it...I loaded it and didnt ask for the pay, and dispatch was not aware the the UPS site was dock high only....Another place I unloaded skids of medical equipment, again a dock high only place and a union shop and the guy wouldn't touch it...in that case, i called and wouldn't take it off until i had a new pay screen...
indoor up on even the 3rd floor delivery, never have done it since i have been in the the business.

And yes the "layover pay" i am speaking of is as i replied to Phil, AFTER the load is off the truck and the pay that comes from Load 1 and is not billable to anyone...As for any of the other, you can read most of it in the reply to Phils post...

And the calling be crazy , its all good, its what keeps me from going insans...well most if the time...

That and you can't spell worth beans.....LOL or someone moved the letters around on your keyboard.....hehehe

 

[chefdennis]

Chef we also tell newbies that they need to treat expediting as a business. Asking your Carrier to cut your pay is not treating it like a business. Suggesting that your Carrier stop paying the fleet money that it wants to pay your fellow O/O's is Treasonous . j/k

Yes if they need to pay their bills from this it is a business and while all i ask of this "business" is that it support itself, i do this because i want to and can, I don't need to. Don't think for a moment that when i say i am a paid vactioner that i am not seriuos...

And as for the telling the carrier not to pay for the 1st 24 hours being "treasonous", well ill just let it at that..cause i am sure you know my answer...

 

[chefdennis]

That and you can't spell worth beans.....LOL or someone moved the letters around on your keyboard.....hehehe

Spellings not the issue, i cant type and only use 2 fingers and have to try and see each key when i hit it and often miss..and then there is the deal with the cusor moving and putting the letters i where ever it wants at times....but hey, it is what it is.... And besides, by now, you know EXACTLY what i am doing ....

And with that, i am gping to dinner and spend money that i didn't make make..but if anyone thinks i didn't make my share last yr, ask to see my 1099 the next time you see me, its all good...

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Spellings not the issue, i cant type and only use 2 fingers and have to try and see each key when i hit it and often miss..and then there is the deal with the cusor moving and putting the letters i where ever it wants at times....but hey, it is what it is.... And besides, by now, you know EXACTLY what i am doing ....

And with that, i am gping to dinner and spend money that i didn't make make..but if anyone thinks i didn't make my share last yr, ask to see my 1099 the next time you see me, its all good...

Dennis..you know I don't really give a rats butt about the spelling....LOL..poke, poke, stir, stir......

 

[Steady Eddie]

all I can say is wow...all the experts have chimed in......

They have now.........Geee Whizzz

 

[chefdennis]

Dennis..you know I don't really give a rats butt about the spelling....LOL..poke, poke, stir, stir......

LOL, hey thats what all the "smileys" are in there for...You know that for most here and most here also know that this place serves the purpose of informing, and entertaining....and as for "poke poke stir stir"..DUH....LOL...

And you know that since Phil and Diane have left the Fed, Phil is much more involved in the day to day happenings of the industry..and that is a good thing ..And Phil, please do not take that as a "shot" at you at all...you seem to be seeking more info than you might have needed at the FED where you were more, shall we say "insulated" from the day to day happenings that most of us dealt with without a 2nd thought...and your seeking that info is a good thing, and you also are more involved here in asking those questions, and that can only help other as the different answers come in...