Hours of Service Concerns

davekc · Oct 30, 2005

The only sore
>point is getting your company to recognize that you need to
>shut down the truck for 3 hours to be legal.

I'd be lucky to name 1 out of the last 10 runs that i could of shut down for 3 hours. And God help ya if sumthin would occur, if indeed ya shut down for those three hours. Too risky shuttin down , WAY TOO RISKY !!!
=====================================================================
This would be my concern with regards to expediting. Our situation mirrors yours in that our teams have had a handful of runs to were they could apply this strategy.

Many runs are timed in a fashion that brings many safety issues into question.
How would this work in the winter months requiring any travel in the northern or western states?
Stopping for a three hour period forces the driver to drive faster and in a unsafe manner in order to complete a delivery.

My concern is for my drivers to complete a delivery in a safe manner.
If all concerned within the transportation industry come together with alternatives or a change in the current rules, all will benefit.
How involved the expedite companies become involved, remains to be seen. Alot of issues to address.

In this regard, safety would be my priority. As we see with these posts, that is open to alot of interpretation.

Davekc
owner
21 years

x06col · Oct 30, 2005

Folks, you simply adjust the delivery time. The computer generated delivery time cannot be adjusted easily, so, you are in the hot seat over nothing.

Tennesseahawk · Oct 30, 2005

This thread is getting good!!! These last few posts introduced a new warcry for expediters... Safe or Legal?

The ones that didn't make the cut are...
Give me split berth or give me death!
To split or not to split.
Thanx to Washington, my kids will be fatherless(motherless)(orphans)!
This truck brakes once every 8 hours.
This truck doesn't brake for FMCSA lawmakers!
If this truck's a rockin, I'm having a seizure! (Oops... that doesn't belong here) :7

RichM · Oct 30, 2005

Where is my check..LOL

Tennesseahawk · Oct 30, 2005

ROFL... I apologize, Rich! Can I trade you my first born, instead? Tonight, my wife told me she stood up in the restaurant booth and called out, "Hi friends!" to everyone in there. She's almost potty-trained, and loves her veggies too! :7 :7 :7 :7 :7

Let me get home, and I'll send it. I'm finally getting some money from this gig ;-)

Why couldn't you have bet me on the Rams or Cowboys game??? LOL

highway star · Oct 31, 2005

If a load is red hot and a carrier tells a customer they are adding 3 hours to delivery, that customer will "simply" call someone else.

ATeam · Nov 1, 2005

> A Team,Just curious and don't take it the wrong way. You
>said you were going to talk to FDX
>safety,recruiters,dispatchers re the HOS rules. I was under
>the impression that they would only discuss issues with
>Owner operators or Fleet Owners. I was told that if they
>allowed drivers who work for fleet owners to discuss
>problems or situations that they were not happy with,they
>would be inundated with calls.

Apparently, RichM, you were told wrong. From our very first day at FedEx Custom Critical, we've always been able to speak with anyone we sought out at the company. Of course, we've always tried to be professional and constructive in those conversations. That makes people of any stripe at any company more willing to take your calls.

ATeam · Nov 1, 2005

>The only sore
>>point is getting your company to recognize that you need to
>>shut down the truck for 3 hours to be legal.
>
>
>I'd be lucky to name 1 out of the last 10 runs that i could
>of shut down for 3 hours. And God help ya if sumthin would
>occur, if indeed ya shut down for those three hours. Too
>risky shuttin down , WAY TOO RISKY !!!
>=====================================================================
>This would be my concern with regards to expediting. Our
>situation mirrors yours in that our teams have had a handful
>of runs to were they could apply this strategy.
>
>Many runs are timed in a fashion that brings many safety
>issues into question.
>How would this work in the winter months requiring any
>travel in the northern or western states?
>Stopping for a three hour period forces the driver to drive
>faster and in a unsafe manner in order to complete a
>delivery.
>
>My concern is for my drivers to complete a delivery in a
>safe manner.
>If all concerned within the transportation industry come
>together with alternatives or a change in the current rules,
>all will benefit.
>How involved the expedite companies become involved, remains
>to be seen. Alot of issues to address.
>
>In this regard, safety would be my priority. As we see with
>these posts, that is open to alot of interpretation.
>
>Davekc
>owner
>21 years
>

I think you misunderstand. We are not driving fast to gain three hours on a load. We are contacting dispatch, explaining our need for sleep and asking the dispatcher to adjust the delivery time to ADD three hours to the run. So far, we've ony had to do this once because we've received mostly short runs since the new rules went into effect. But the one time we did ask for an additional three hours, it was granted. Can't say what will happen in the future. Still finding our way through the new rules and our carrier's response to it.

ATeam · Nov 1, 2005

<snip>

>My concern is for my drivers to complete a delivery in a
>safe manner.
>If all concerned within the transportation industry come
>together with alternatives or a change in the current rules,
>all will benefit.
>How involved the expedite companies become involved, remains
>to be seen. Alot of issues to address.
>
>In this regard, safety would be my priority. As we see with
>these posts, that is open to alot of interpretation.
>
>Davekc
>owner
>21 years
>

Thank you for the info. May I ask, what are you, DaveKC, a high-profile fleet owner and leader in the EO community, specifically telling your drivers regarding the new HOS? What guidance are you and/or Panther II giving them?

davekc · Nov 1, 2005

Ateam wrote

So far, we've ony had to do this once because we've received mostly short runs since the new rules went into effect. But the one time we did ask for an additional three hours, it was granted
=====================================================================
October is one of the busiest months with our trucks averaging over 5,000 miles a week.
If you are only doing short runs since Oct 1st, your company has already addressed your personal situation.
Not a likely path that most expediters are willing or wanting to follow.
==========================================================================================================================================
Ateam wrote
Thank you for the info. May I ask, what are you, DaveKC, a high-profile fleet owner and leader in the EO community, specifically telling your drivers regarding the new HOS? What guidance are you and/or Panther II giving them?

As mentioned, safety would be my primary concern with regards to HOS regulations.

Davekc
owner
21 years

ATeam · Nov 2, 2005

>Ateam wrote
>
>So far, we've ony had to do this once because we've received
>mostly short runs since the new rules went into effect. But
>the one time we did ask for an additional three hours, it
>was granted
>=====================================================================
>October is one of the busiest months with our trucks
>averaging over 5,000 miles a week.
>If you are only doing short runs since Oct 1st, your company
>has already addressed your personal situation.
>Not a likely path that most expediters are willing or
>wanting to follow.

October is a busy month for ALL expediters. It's not true that our carrier has addresed our situation by assigning short runs and you know it. NO trend can be divined from a few short days. There is absolutelty NO evidence to support the conclusion you draw. Despite your denials in a previous thread, it seems your anti-FedEx theme continues.

The implication that your trucks are doing better than us is also without merit. The FACT is, DaveKC, that if our daily revenue average from Nov 1 to date holds through the end of the month, we'll have a month over $30,000 gross to the truck. And if our mile average holds, we'll have earned that having driven less than half of the miles your trucks drive. Not to worry, though. We don't expect to gross $30,000 in November. We've had some great months on the road, but none that great. My point is simply that November will likely be a great month for your trucks, our truck, and the trucks of all other expediters that run hard in the busy season.

Can't use October as a good month to compare. We had several days down because we deadheaded cross country and took time off to move from a dry box truck into a reefer truck. The owner of the drybox truck wanted to get back into it and drive it himself when he saw how much money we made in September. We also lost some time due to a truck breakdown. It was a positive driver/owner parting, as a reefer truck came available from another fleet owner and we've been wanting to get back into a reefer truck for a while. Had we wanted to stay in the dry box truck, the owner would not have pulled it out from under us. We chose the October deadhead and down time loss because we know the additional reefer revenue will more than make up for it over the next few months.

By the way, in over two years of expediting, we've never come close to driving 5,000 miles a week in a month's period of time. That's a LOT more driving than we'd ever want to do. Our monthly average ranges from 10,000 to 15,000. 20,000 miles a month is a harsh pace leaving little time for the quality of live events we enjoy on the road. Reading what you wrote, increases my appreciation for our pay-by-load arrangement. Less operating expense. Gross revenue that is equal to or better than any Panther team Panther recruiters can name. We've checked. If we could make more money at Panther, we'd be there.

To be fair, I must also disclose that our revenue is enhanced by the accesserioral services we provide like inside deliveries, lift gate, reefer (when we're in a reefer truck), pads/straps/load bars/pallet jack/dollies/appliance cart/hand truck/ and other special handling equipment used to handle special-care freight. While we drive less miles, we spend more on equipment. The nice thing about a pallet jack and the other items is they don't have fuel tanks, but they still earn money!

RichM · Nov 2, 2005

Very true but you have not bought all of the accessories that you mention. The owner of the truck made the investment and hired you(until you fire him) to operate his unit.
It may be that he/her is not happy with you doing your tourist thing when times are busy.
Dave has a significant investment and needs to keep his units running hard. You have no investment so until you walk in his shoes,you cannot make an adequate comparision.

davekc · Nov 2, 2005

For whatever reason, you are trying to read something into my post that isn't there. That can happen if you pour a few too many.

Your quote again;
>So far, we've ony had to do this once because we've received
>mostly short runs since the new rules went into effect. But
>the one time we did ask for an additional three hours, it
>was granted
==================================================================
You are the one that indicated you were doing "mostly short runs"
You latest post says "a few" followed by your equipment failures.
===================================================================
Ateam wrote
The implication that your trucks are doing better than us is also without merit. The FACT is, DaveKC, that if our daily revenue average from Nov 1 to date holds through the end of the month, we'll have a month over $30,000 gross to the truck. And if our mile average holds, we'll have earned that having driven less than half of the miles your trucks drive.
===================================================================
That is almost funny.
You are forgetting I use to have trucks at Fedex.
You have how many at Panther?
You wouldn't have a clue as to what rate I run my trucks.
I have a EO member that drove for Fedex last year and is running for me currently. I don't think his Fedex experience met his expectations. That can happen anywhere.
But,using your numbers and quote, that means at 10,000 miles a month, you are averaging over $3.00 per loaded mile to average over $30,000 for a month.
I changed my mind, that is really funny.
Yes, Panther doesn't pay over $3.00 per all loaded miles.
Then again, maybe your pushing your pallet jack more miles than the truck moves?
====================================================================
The mention of 5,000 miles per week was in relation to the thread. "Hours of Service Concerns"
It was in response to the scenerio of shutting down for 3 hours per every 24 hour cycle.
Nowhere in my post did I mention Fedex.
I did say your carrier addressed your concerns by providing you with "mostly short runs"
Not sure how you translate that into trashing Fedex?

Pour another one before you respond.

Davekc
owner
21 years

ATeam · Nov 2, 2005

DaveKC and RichM. Listen! Can you hear them? The EO community is breathing a collective sigh of disgust. They're saying, "Their they go again. Not me. I'm done with this thread that went sadly south. It might be wise for a judicious moderator to lock the thread.

Tennesseahawk · Nov 3, 2005

Puleeeze!!! Ateam, your ego has definitely gotten in the way of where this thread was going. You're so worried about something taken out of context that your pride prevents it from passing without backlash. You did say you were getting mostly short runs. Now which is it? Are you making tons of money, or doing mostly short runs? What I gathered from your previous post, I'm guessing FedEx started giving you short runs cause you asked to take 3 hours off during the long one. It would be a simple solution in my eyes for FXCC to do that. One other thing... if white glove units carry all these wonderful toys, how do they fit freight? J/K... I know there's room for a few skids.

And Dave and Rich... you know how to push the buttons of an excitable man. I have to say in all honesty, it shouldn't have come to this. I saw nothing instigating in your posts leading up to his outbursts. Now get this dang post back where it was LOL :7 :7 :7 :7 :7

*slapping Dave's and Rich's hand*
Now stop teasing!

redytrk · Nov 3, 2005

One reason teams may be seeing more short runs is because of that DAM 14 hr clock.

A solo driver that accepts a run at say 14:00,with a delivery time of 07:00 cant make the delivery because his clock ran out at 04:00.

davekc · Nov 3, 2005

THawk wrote
Puleeeze!!! Ateam, your ego has definitely gotten in the way of where this thread was going.

History once again repeats itself.
Portraying oneself as taking the high road while trying to ignite a flamefest is unproductive.
Personal attacks on moderators, conflicting information, and innaccurate statements do little for the viewership.
I think those footsteps that members hear, are that of reality
It can be confusing when presented with just the facts
=====================================================================
The topic is on HOS concerns.
So the next obvious question I can see is;

How many folks are requesting from their company the need to sleep while on a run and how often?
Have their been any repercussions following this type of request?
For a fair discussion, it would need to be indicated as to whether you are a team or solo operator.
I can see many ways each is affected differently.

What say you?

Davekc

RichM · Nov 4, 2005

I believe the repercussions are there in the cold cruel world of expediting. A Team mentioned that at one time they asked for 3 more hours and it was granted. Now they only get short runs. It could very well be that they are flagged in the computer that they do not have the stamina or endurance to be given long straight through runs.

vernon946 · Nov 4, 2005

On the other hand, we took a run to WA only because it picked up early in the week and didn't deliver until Monday. We told FedEx CC we weren't ready for our first run under the new rules to be a long straight thru. Our runs after that, about 90% were over 800 and 25% over 1000.

Based on this, I would say it has been more the luck of the draw. We don't have enough trucks out here in most places we visit for the Co. to play any kind of games.

Vernon in C2197

Dynamite 1 · Nov 5, 2005

is it really affecting most people that adversely? i do realize that if you have not previously been doing 10 hr. shifts that it is hard to just jump rite in, but we all heard the rumors that it would be going this way. we have some friends that did the split thingy and took several weeks b-4 the new hos took effect to gradually bring themselves into 10 hr shifts and just for info they are an older couple or at least he is. now he is able to do his 10 and stops a few times to get cofee or use the potty and walk. no they are not shutting down just a little 15-30 min. brk. to stretch and take care of bus. now that they are into 10 hr shifts they state that they do not feel any less safe or any less in control than they were before. they try to always swich at midnite to keep themselves driving at roughly the same time everyday we taught them this trick which was passed to us by my brother inlaw who is a veteran o/o . doing it that way you can go coast to coast and only have your shift change by about 4hrs if you go right through . some of you that are having trouble adjusting try some of these, i hope they will help cause i hate to see anyone have to quit and let big brother win . if anyone has ???? as to the swich at midnite thing pm me or post and i will try to explain why it works for us but we dont operate like most my wife never fuels the trk. or loads it so that is different than most . so keeping day and nite shifts is fairly important. hope you all find your way through it.