HOS & unwork related drivin

[InIdaho]

Curious about how and if the HOS regs pertain to off duty commuting and or driving. For this question say you own your own straight truck and its leased to an expidite company such as FedEx.

1) After delivering a load and notifying dispatch that you are going out of service, can a driver who has maxed out his 8 hour driving time or his 14 hours of on duty time, commute home in the same but now non-dispatched empty truck? What about driving a car instead?

2) Say the same driver (not dispatched, out of hours but off duty) wants to relocate (not commute) to another area to spend some down time, eat dinner, better position himself for a future load or whatever. Can he drive his truck or a car for that matter?

Thanks !

 

[48ST8s]

InIdaho,

In regards to question #1 you can drive 11 hours (not 8) under the current rules. Also, from what I have been told from a couple log departments for the companies I have worked for, anytime you are driving your commercial vehicle, it must be logged. You can get out of the truck and run personal errands in your personal vehicle all you want and not have to log it.

That is what I have been told and have always followed, however, it seems like every log department and DOT officer will have a different answer for every question.

This link will give you some definitions pertaining to HOS. Hope it helps.

395.2

 

[InIdaho]

You're of course right 11 hours driving not 8. Thanks for the link.

I ask this question here because the regs are confusing and I can't get a straight answer from my cdl instructors. One of them said you can commute but don't push it. The other said they weren't sure but would look into it.

It seems that 395.2 (definitions) says it pretty clearly: "Driving time means all time spent at the driving controls of a commercial motor vehicle in operation."

Yet under 395.3 a. (Maximum Driving Times) does "a property-carrying driver" create an exception?

When finished with a delivery, not on dispatch, driving our own, now empty truck are we still a property-carrying driver?

I know this is about as dry as it gets but could someone help clear this up for me.

 

[greg334]

You're of course right 11 hours driving not 8. Thanks for the link.

I ask this question here because the regs are confusing and I can't get a straight answer from my cdl instructors. One of them said you can commute but don't push it. The other said they weren't sure but would look into it.

It seems that 395.2 (definitions) says it pretty clearly: "Driving time means all time spent at the driving controls of a commercial motor vehicle in operation."

Yet under 395.3 a. (Maximum Driving Times) does "a property-carrying driver" create an exception?

When finished with a delivery, not on dispatch, driving our own, now empty truck are we still a property-carrying driver?

I know this is about as dry as it gets but could someone help clear this up for me.

YES.

Here is what I am told by a lot of DOT officers.

If I am in the drivers seat in line at customs, or the truck is moving, it is drive time.

If I am in the sleeper, it is sleeper time.

If I am doing PM, checking the oil, fueling it up, loading and unloading or any thing else that the truck is not moving but I am doing something to do with the truck or the load, it is on duty time. You can not exceed 14 hours of drive/on duty time.

If I am out of the truck, like at the movies or getting something to eat, it is off duty time.

Every time the truck moves it is drive time, so going to and from home with the truck is counted.

There is only one exception to the 11 hour rule - bad weather.

 

[maybe_driving]

To answer your ? go to fmcsa.dot.gov and click on rules and regulations in the search box it will say (all regulations) in the other box put 395.8 and click go. On the next screen to the right click on Interpertation under related links,and go to ? 26.
It will read:

Question 26: If a driver is permitted to use a CMV for personal reasons, how must the driving time be recorded?

Guidance: When a driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work, time spent traveling from a driver's home to his/her terminal (normal work reporting location), or from a driver's terminal to his/her home, may be considered off-duty time. Similarly, time spent traveling short distances from a driver's en route lodgings (such as en route terminals or motels) to restaurants in the vicinity of such lodgings may be considered off-duty time. The type of conveyance used from the terminal to the driver's home, from the driver's home to the terminal, or to restaurants in the vicinity of en route lodgings would not alter the situation unless the vehicle is laden. A driver may not operate a laden CMV as a personal conveyance. The driver who uses a motor carrier's CMV for transportation home, and is subsequently called by the employing carrier and is then dispatched from home, would be on-duty from the time the driver leaves home.

The key word is short
so officer bod might say 10 miles is short and officer jack might say 20 is ok

 

[cheri1122]

Actually, there are two exceptions: adverse weather, and emergencies. The adverse weather rule: "Adverse driving conditions means snow, sleet, fog, other adverse weather conditions, a highway covered with snow or ice, or unusual road or traffic conditions, none of which were apparent on the basis of information known to the person dispatching the run at the time it was begun." In other words, if the adverse weather was apparent when the run was dispatched, the exception can't be claimed.
The emergency exception states "In case of any emergency, a driver may complete his/her run without being in violation of the provisions of the regulations in this part, if such run reasonably could have been completed absent the emergency"
This one is a bit vague - what constitutes an 'emergency' is subject to interpretation, eh?

 

[greg334]

Cheri I left that one out because of the ambiguity on what is an emergency. It could be a bathroom break or for some getting a meal for some, while others it could be a real medical emergency.

As for what maybe maybedriving posted, I am not sure if you can do that in our case, I was told even though that this exception is there, I was not allowed to drive the truck past the 11 hours by FedEx. They do not recognize this as a reason for extending the HOS for food and shelter. I am also told that some DOT officers will let you slide if you produce recipes and give a good enough reason for the truck moving but some will put you out of service for a full reset. I stick by the rules I am told to follow and I have yet to have any problems with the messy logs I keep.

 

[maybe_driving]

that's all right it want matter when they rewrite the rules and we all get screwed because they don't drive a truck

 

[cheri1122]

The key words in what Maybedriving cited seem to me to be "driving a motor carrier's vehicle" which would apply to company drivers, no?
You're right about the ambiguity - and just yesterday, I read an article about the emissions proposals, in which it was stated that requiring businesses to comply with different rules in different states constituted an unreasonable burden - yet, we do it every day!

 

[greg334]

that's all right it want matter when they rewrite the rules and we all get screwed because they don't drive a truck

Ain't that the truth, I can't see why they have to write them like the IRS laws.

 

[InIdaho]

Ain't that the truth, I can't see why they have to write them like the IRS laws.

And like the IRS, if you asked 3 of em what this meant you'd probably get 3 different answers.

Thanks Maybedriving, Greg & Cheri !

 

[LDB]

And like the IRS, if you asked 3 of em what this meant you'd probably get 3 different answers.

WHOA now. You are not portraying the IRS in an accurate manner. Everybody knows if you ask 3 different IRS agents the exact same question you get 4 different answers.

 

[Crazynuff]

Actually, there are two exceptions: adverse weather, and emergencies. The adverse weather rule: "Adverse driving conditions means snow, sleet, fog, other adverse weather conditions, a highway covered with snow or ice, or unusual road or traffic conditions, none of which were apparent on the basis of information known to the person dispatching the run at the time it was begun." In other words, if the adverse weather was apparent when the run was dispatched, the exception can't be claimed.
The emergency exception states "In case of any emergency, a driver may complete his/her run without being in violation of the provisions of the regulations in this part, if such run reasonably could have been completed absent the emergency"
This one is a bit vague - what constitutes an 'emergency' is subject to interpretation, eh?

But there are stipulations . Driving can be extended up to 2 hours past the 11 but the 14 hour rule is still in effect .
395.1

 

[nightcreacher]

YES.

Here is what I am told by a lot of DOT officers.

If I am in the drivers seat in line at customs, or the truck is moving, it is drive time.

If I am in the sleeper, it is sleeper time.

If I am doing PM, checking the oil, fueling it up, loading and unloading or any thing else that the truck is not moving but I am doing something to do with the truck or the load, it is on duty time. You can not exceed 14 hours of drive/on duty time.

If I am out of the truck, like at the movies or getting something to eat, it is off duty time.

Every time the truck moves it is drive time, so going to and from home with the truck is counted.

There is only one exception to the 11 hour rule - bad weather.

greg,i think your leaving 1 thing out.in the 14 hour day,there is no stopping the clock for off duty,unless your in the bunk for 8 straight hours,and as far as useing your truck as personal vehicle,if you are out of service and in your layover place,then you can drive to a resturant,in off duty status,but you have to cover your door signs,then this becomes your personal vehicle
now if the load your on can be legally delivered in 11 hrs of driving,and do to weather your detained,you have up to 2 hours to finish the trip,but you can not go over your 14 hours,no matter what.also,besides weather,if do to an accident you are held up from completeing your trip,some dot say its follows the weather rule,others say not,the guy i asked the question to,told me that its up to the judge,and in my case my driving time got detained because road was shut down for an accident,since at time i was running solo,and officer said he would have to write me if i were driving over the 11 hours,i went to sleep,and the load was transfered.fed ex said it was up to the officer what the ruling would be .