HOS thoughts from ATA

[ATeam]

...the people making these decision are people who work an 8 hour day, think 40 hours in a week is a lot of time to put in, and think an 8 hour drive is exhausting.

Also a very good point. And, in fact, driving a car for eight hours a day IS exhausting. Four-wheelers do not understand how much easier it is to drive a truck for eight hours than a car. In fairness, there is no way they could since most of them have no idea what it is like to be in a truck.

Tell many four-wheelers that they have to drive for eight hours and they will cringe. Tell that to a trucker and he or she will smile. On an eight hour drive, I can settle in to an easy-chair driver's seat, adjust the arms, back, air bladders, seat height and position. I sit not on the floor with my legs sticking out like in a car. I sit in a chair with my knees bent 90 degrees. There is lots of leg room. On the road I can see over the top of traffic and sometimes miles ahead. Other trucks may box me in from time to time but that does not last long.
Our truck rides quieter than the Honda we borrow when we are home.

I could go on but you get the point. If I had to spend eight hours driving, I would much rather drive a truck than a car. It would feel more like fun than work. That's even more true in stop and go city traffic. If I have to sit for two hours inching my way through a rush hour, I would much rather do it in a truck.

 

[Turtle]

Not only that, but when you have to drive 8 hours to get somewhere to do something, every stinkin' mile of those 8 hours takes forever. But as we all know, when the thing you're doing is driving, it's no big deal.

For example, my niece lives 180 miles away in Elizabethtown. To go visit her is the longest 3 hours in, like, ever. OMG. Are we there yet?!?!

Here at home I don't even want to go to Walmart because it's all the waaaay on the otherrrrr side of toooowwwwwwnnnnn. From one end of town to the other here in Murray? About a mile.

But a 500 mile run is nothing. I'm just gettin' warmed up.

 

[greg334]

This industry and every trucker deserves what ever happens.

There is no outcry by the group as a group and they depend on the OOIDA to do something they themselves need to do.

They need to get out of the cab and start hoofing it over to their representatives and senators office and complain. They need to show a front - ANY FRONT - against these changes and prove to those in power that they can actually do something more than run with two log books, stink and run into the back of school buses.

The one thing that does not work and seems to be really d*mn stupid is to point out the charity work this industry does - I heard that the other day and almost p*ssed my pant laughing. This means nothing, especially in todays world of politics, and to try to even ride that wave makes people look asinine.

All truckers need to get their carriers involved, get them to do the same thing, show up and complain. There has to be proof on how this effects the industry and the individual, but also how we as a group (carrier and driver) can do more than just b*tch.

The OOIDA is worthless without the power of the person who votes and with only a small fraction of people in the industry who have joined the OOIDA, they only can do so much, which is coordinate some small efforts. They are limited in scope and purpose, their outreach is less than the sum of their members because a lot of their members DO NOT VOTE and there for worthless.

IF we end up with a 44 hour reset, and a 10 hour drive time, well it isn't because we did something to prove to the powers in Washington that we are professionals but rather the opposite.

If you want an insight on how the 'safety groups' have pulled this crap off, imagine a representative in Washington ending up meeting with 20 of their constituents and hearing how little Johnny was almost run over by a tractor while he wandered onto the freeway and the driver of the tractor cheated on his log book or Jane was on a school bus that was hit by a mad trucker who was cut off by some fool in a 4X4.

The soccer mom approach to stories works in politics.

Where are the truckers doing this?

I can tell you they are sitting at the buffet at the T/A stuffing their face full of food.

The level of concern about this profession is just amazing, everyone b*tches but few do anything at all.

The industry deserves what it gets.

 

[BigBusBob]

Very Interesting posts. You can clearly see who drives team and who runs cargo vans.

Once again, for a solo in a straight truck or semi who has to log their hours as legally as possible, the notion of 44 hours to restart is only hurting them. What are you going to do for 44 hours in a truck stop? At the house it's one thing, but if you aren't near family or friends... and don't have more than 3 loads of laundry to do... 44 hours is a lot of time.

Think how much driving is done in the difference of 34 to 44 hours? that's 10 hours!!

10 hours is a whole days running...

with stops for food and/or fuel and/or to stretch that's the better part of 500 miles,
or for better perspective:

the distance from the bottom of FL (Miami area) and putting you well into Georgia.

The unions will be the lucky ones, and the regional carriers will be the lucky ones, because it will give them more work. solo's can kiss their 650 to 800 plus mile days/runs pretty much goodbye.... because teams will be the ones placed on those.

or... if it's small enough, cargo vans... until they start making van drivers log.... Which has always perplexed me...
they set a qualcomm unit on your roof, but you don't have to log?

OOIDA wants to fight for rules, then (as a member of OOIDA) I think they should make van, sprinter, and "fancy" box truck drivers log with a log book.
There should also be seperate sections for crash stats with straight trucks, vans (and similiar "commercial" vehicles) and semi's. Then that will really tell who is driving illegally and who is not rested and who is. How many times have you seen expediter straight trucks around detroit and other parts of the midwest messed up due to careless driving or not knowing where their going? All you have to do is drive by Alumi-bunks yards. FMCSA should look into that sector... as well as vans... as well as Semi's. But... seperately...

Why? Why not? Lets be fair about it. Why put it all on semi drivers? You drive a commercial vehicle. You haul freight. You fill out bill of ladings. You should log. You pay for fuel taxes and other commercial transportation related taxes.

Not trying to cause an uproar, just think that FMSCA should be fair in their studies and rule changes... because not all drivers are semi's. and not all drivers are straight trucks or van drivers.

But wouldn't the numbers be interesting.

How many O/O's go thru drivers like toilet paper?
Thats my 2 cents on that.

Triple B.

 

[greg334]

Don't take this wrong Bob but I have a strong feeling towards the Bus drivers who should be treated as a truck driver, like they must obey the speed laws and going one step further because of their cargo, should be under stricter logging rules with EOBRs.

I understand that once these companies commanded a strong influence within the states they operated where they had the states run interference for them with the US DOT but times have changed and the mindset hasn't. The revenue that Bus companies produced for states is a very small fraction of what trucks produce and it should be reexamined as who would be a more important focus on safety and what is more important to the states.

For what many don't get who jump on the OOIDA bandwagon, is that the states have a lot of influence on these subjects and can reject HOS for those who operate in their states. They have yet done so but it is not something that can't be done.

 

[roadeyes]

I think it's a combination of leveling the playing field, and the fact that the people making these decision are people who work an 8 hour day, think 40 hours in a week is a lot of time to put in, and think an 8 hour drive is exhausting.

Bingo! you nailed it exactly!

It's what we do, and they will never understand that because their commute to and from work is exhausting enough for them and feel that it must obviously be worse for us!

And yes we do get what we deserve if we let them do it to us!
We are a big industry, but for some reason we do not have a very large or influential lobby, which I guess shows that the transportation industry is not very unified as a group.

 

[Brisco]

If you want an insight on how the 'safety groups' have pulled this crap off, imagine a representative in Washington ending up meeting with 20 of their constituents and hearing how little Johnny was almost run over by a tractor while he wandered onto the freeway and the driver of the tractor cheated on his log book or Jane was on a school bus that was hit by a mad trucker who was cut off by some fool in a 4X4

Why not bring up the "Elephant" in the room that this current Administration has as their second man in charge???

Biden's wife was killed by a Truck Driver after SHE pulled away from a stop sign and didn't yield the right of way to the oncoming truck.

Delaware Grapevine

And Biden has used her death in his Political Career twice to enhance his stance on certain issues by blaming the Driver of that truck of being "intoxicated".

Don't take what Greg said too lightly. The "Safety Groups" do exist and probably have more "incorrect insights" brought forth to enhance the Legislation they seek than we can ever imagine.

 

[layoutshooter]

Talk to MY congressman or senators? Wall board listens better than they do!!

 

[CharlesD]

150,000 more trucks polluting the air,with no where to park.

And driving rates down even more. Just what we need.

 

[greg334]

Talk to MY congressman or senators? Wall board listens better than they do!!

BUT see Layout you see one of them every year and I would be ripping into them for a lot of things. Their presences at some fund raiser or what ever it is does not overshadow the need to be vocal about issues that affect you. Their job is 24/7, not 9 to 5 and especially the influence that one of them has over a lot of issues, it is rather important to corner him and tell him what is going on.

 

[layoutshooter]

BUT see Layout you see one of them every year and I would be ripping into them for a lot of things. Their presences at some fund raiser or what ever it is does not overshadow the need to be vocal about issues that affect you. Their job is 24/7, not 9 to 5 and especially the influence that one of them has over a lot of issues, it is rather important to corner him and tell him what is going on.

Dingellberry seldom shows up at events these days. He is in far too bad a shape. He really looks BAD!! Life has caught up with him. I have a sneaky feeling that his wife is doing what little work he does now.

 

[greg334]

I agree he looks like crap, I saw him a few weeks ago in Detroit being pushed around in a chair and thought that age limits should be in place before term limits are.

 

[layoutshooter]

I agree he looks like crap, I saw him a few weeks ago in Detroit being pushed around in a chair and thought that age limits should be in place before term limits are.

Yeah, his "hip job" did not take too well. No matter what I think of his politics it is sad to see someone's body, and sometimes their mind, fail them as they age. Things are catching up to him fast now.

 

[greg334]

I would have the sympathy but I can't - he is a politician.

 

[layoutshooter]

I would have the sympathy but I can't - he is a politician.

Yeah, I was TRYING to get past that to the "human" part, if any still exists that is. He has, after all, been a "politician" for a VERY long time. Good chance that there is no "human" left.

 

[greg334]

Not to change the subject but I am going to throw up talking about Dingell, what do you think of this issue with the HOS changes they are trying to figure out?

 

[layoutshooter]

Not to change the subject but I am going to throw up talking about Dingell, what do you think of this issue with the HOS changes they are trying to figure out?

It appears to me that, as normal, they ain't got a clue. Not that it is anything new. They have been clueless in government for a VERY long time.

Want to make MY operation safer? Easy. Let my wife and I decide when and how often we need to change drivers. I know when I am sleepy, so does she. MANY times one of us has felt tired when the other was wide awake in the sleeper. Some schmuck in Washington as NO idea what we require for sleep.

 

[nightcreacher]

if you only work 8 hrs a day .you could run 30 days without a day off,work 10 hrs aday and have to take 1 day off every 8th day.If you work 12 hours aday then you would need a reset being 34 hrs or 44 hrs,or go the old method and just take 2 days off.
As far as a team needing a reset,my co and I have run ourselves out of hours a few times,but we run a legal log,showing unloading and driving,plus those times it happened we ran couple rounds coast to coast

 

[layoutshooter]

We too have had to reset a few times, mainly on security loads. FedEx even had to have another truck guard ours for 34 hours so we could reset. We show loading and unloading as well.

 

[ATeam]

The unions will be the lucky ones, and the regional carriers will be the lucky ones, because it will give them more work. solo's can kiss their 650 to 800 plus mile days/runs pretty much goodbye.... because teams will be the ones placed on those.

It is not necessarily true that teams will be placed on the longer runs because of the new rule. It would only be true if teams can be found, and that is not as easy as it once was. Carriers are deeply concerned about the recruiting and retention difficulties CSA 2010 is already having.

If it happens that the new HOS rules create a need for 150,000 more trucks and drivers, team or solo, it may not happen that carriers will trot down to the truck store to buy them or go to their yards to resurrect inactive trucks left over from the recession. If they can't find people to drive them, why buy or resurrect trucks?