HOS (HOUR OF SERIVE) NEWBIE

[jimalbertk]

Ok guys I will be heading to tri-state tomorrow for orentation on the 3rd question about log books after I am threw with Orentation

I wanna stay on this track if I can

Is this in complinence???

8:00AM - 15 Min Pre-Trip Line 4
8:15AM Drive
1:00PM Fuel 30 - 60 mins Line 4
2:00PM - 5:00PM Drive
5:15PM POST TRIP LINE 4
5:00 - 4:00 AM SLEEPER BERTH

 

[Crazynuff]

No , you have a problem . You show a post trip at 5:15 then back up to 5 to go in the sleeper . No one spends 11 hours in a sleeper . Sleeper berth is exactly that . Come out of the sleeper to eat or use the rest room and you have to restart the time . Your schedule is also unrealistic . You can't work banker's hours expediting . You go when the load is available and you may only drive a few hours then wait an undetermined time for the next load . Most of the time you won't get a full 14 hour day .

 

[redytrk]

Sleeper berth time does not mean asleep for 11 hours. It is quite common to have 11 hours combined with TV,computer,relaxation.

I doubt that any DOT would question this.

 

[LDB]

Technically that is a correct response however if you were at home in the "sleeper berth" and needed to pee you'd get out of the "sleeper berth" and walk to the bathroom to do your business, hopefully at least. :+

Seriously though, I pretty much log all line 1 unless I'm on duty on 3 or 4 because during line 1 time I can sleep or eat or read or watch tv or pee or whatever I need/want to do and it's all approved.

During orientation they'll tell you what they prefer you to do with your logs. Use that as your starting point.

Leo Bricker, owner trucks 3034, 4958
OOIDA 677319
73's K5LDB
EO Forum Moderator 1+ Years of Service
Expediters Online.com - The Best is Getting Better!
-----
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[Broompilot]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I have been DOT'd 3 times now for log books. I have never put down Post Trip Inspection unless the next day I was going to only flag it and not show a 15 minute for a Pre-Trip.

Also I will combign the Post Trip with a Fuel and still only show 15 minutes. My time is to valuable to spend my 70 hours on give aways.

Have never been corrected to our Saftey Dept and DOT has not mentioned a word to me. I always show a Pre-Trip, even if it was the day before on a Post just not two 15 minute Post/Pre. In doing a Post/Pre I only flagg the Pre but always try to combigned a fuel in there if I am at a Truck Stop.

8:00 AM Pre Trip and say Fuel 8:15
8:15 Drive 2:15
2:15 Off Duty 3:15
3:15 Drive 8:15
8:15 Post Trip & Fuel 8:30
8:30 Sleeper
6:30 Pre Trip (next day)
6:30 Drive 11:00
11:00 Unload On Duty 11:15
11:15 Off Duty or Sleeper

Hope this helps

 

[Crazynuff]

I know some safety departments require a 30 minute post trip . That's what I do and often combine it with fueling . While a van may get away with a 15 minute fuel stop larger trucks may have to show 30 . ( Oh , that's right , vans don't have to log . ) BTW , Pilot increased their driver payback from 1 cent to 1 1/2 cents if you buy 175 gallons or more but I doubt very many of you fall in that category . When I do a 30 minute posttrip I just flag the pretrip the next day .

 

[LDB]

We were told they expect a 15 min pretrip and a note of a post trip on a daily basis. The post isn't meant to be extensive checking brake pads etc. but to be sure nothing is leaking, tires are good etc. so it should be a quick 3 to 5 minute walkaround. We don't have to show 15 minutes on line 4 unless we do something more extensive. We just have to note it when we note location going from line 3 to line 2 or 1. So far that's 98% of mine and I haven't heard anything from safety or logs so I guess it's good.

Leo Bricker, owner trucks 3034, 4958
OOIDA 677319
73's K5LDB
EO Forum Moderator 1+ Years of Service
Expediters Online.com - The Best is Getting Better!
-----
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[michigandvr]

I work in safety and compliance, and per our company policy a post trip does only needs to be flagged not logged. We have never had a problem with this during numerous DOT audits.

 

[cheri1122]

( Oh , that's right , vans don't have
>to log . )
Vans have to log when hauling hazmat, & I recently ran into a problem with a DOT inspection, which I find very hard to believe has not been addressed before - logging the previous seven days. I have logged when driving t/t, & I know that it's a legal document, so any falsification can get you in a world of trouble. This wasn't the first time I'd hauled hazmat, every time before, though, I'd just done as every driver (including the owner I drove for when I started) said: "just put whatever in - they'll never find out otherwise". It didn't ever sound right, but I knew there was no way I could accurately log the seven days, so I just did the best I could, filling in just the recap.
Then I picked up a hazmat load, & stopped to get a log, which I filled in only for that day. Got pulled behind at the scalehouse, (my headlight was out - but it hadn't been 10 min. earlier!), & DOT grounded me for 10 hrs, because I couldn't prove I hadn't been driving for too many hrs already. I asked the officer how I'm supposed to log the last seven days, & his reply? "My advice would be to log all the time." (About as helpful as I've come to expect!)
The carrier arranged for the load to be transferred to another driver, and I got to take a taxi to a local motel, because the officer locked the building & left as soon as he was done with me - leaving me with strict instructions against driving, but no access to a bathroom.
Several days later, the carrier issued directions via Qualcomm, that drivers who need to log the previous seven days should use the forms used at orientation, which would be faxed upon request.
I'm glad to have the question resolved, at last, but now I have another one: is it unreasonable for me to feel that the carrier bears equal responsibility for the situation? I'm willing to take half the blame, because I should have asked for clarification at orientation, and I meant to, but the logging part dragged on so long, with so many other questions, that I just didn't ask then.
Just last week I was notified by the Public Utilities Commission (?!) that they've decided to fine me $75.00 for the infraction, and I've heard enough horror stories to know that that was just a wrist-slap, so I sent them a check right away, before they could change it.
The whole deal cost me a LOT of money: the lost load, motel, taxi to & from the motel, & then the fine, all together around $850-900.
I would like some input, here: is it reasonable for me to be the only one to pay for it, because I wouldn't knowingly falsify my log? Or does the carrier bear equal responsibility for not adressing the issue until someone got in trouble over it? I will not have a tantrum if y'all say it's totally my fault, but I won't bring any donuts to the next expo, either - can't afford to, lol. :+

 

[Pappy]

Everybody and I mean Everybody needs to get real on this LOG BOOK THING! I've got a friend doing 7 years in prison for Involuntary manslaughter because of a log book. Here's the story: He was in town and off duty for the weekend. His boss called him on saturday and asked if he would spot a trailer at a customers dock about 25 miles away. He agreed to do it. During the trip he stopped and fueled his tractor. The entire task took only about 2 hours. He did not bother to LOG the trip.
On Monday, he left on a 900 mile dispatch. He had gone only about 7 or 8 miles when a 90 year old man pulled out from a side road in front of him. He struck the vehicle and the old man was killed. The old man wa at fault right! and would have been ticketed had he lived,RIGHT!-----WRONG__WRONG___WRONG!
Attorneys sometimes are like vultures and believe me they leave no stone un-turned.
Records for the truck, the driver and a lot of other things were subpeonad by the courts on behalf of the dead old mans attorney.
My friend, the driver had charged fuel on a particular day and at a particular time. However his log book showed off duty with no time whatsoever logged for a pre trip insp. driving, fueling(on duty not driving) or anything else at all! He was merely doing his boss, and he had a good one, a favor. It cost him his wife, his home, his vehicles, his motor home his boat and his SANITY!
I've been on the road for 35 years. I understand and abide by the rules. The rules say that your logs must be current to the last change of duty. I keep mine current! WHAT WILL YOU DO?
Everyone please be safe!
Papp35 years OTR T?T

 

[Crazynuff]

Many part time drivers don't understand that ALL compensated work , trucking related or not must be logged as on duty not driving . I know that doesn't really apply here . Anyone that anticipates hauling hazmat within 7 days should keep logs and dispatch should keep a copy of the logs . Why ? Because taking the load may put you over your 8 day / 70 hour limit if you've been running hard and you better have your 10 hour break . I would protest being put out of service in an area with no food or restroom facilities . I've known of truckers that were put out of service being escorted to the nearest area providing facilities . Be aware falsifying logbooks is a felony . Offenders usually get fined a couple of thousand dollars and probation . There aren't enough jail cells to hold all the HOS violaters . If you falsify logs and have an accident , your fault or not you're in very serious trouble . Run a google on truck accident attorneys . First thing they do is depose logs , fuel receipts , scale tickets , toll receipts , and pay records .

 

[Pappy]

Crazynuff,
Thanks for re-enfprcing my post. The fact is: If you drive--You Log.
Getting used to that fact will keep a lot of people out of a lot of trouble!
Pappy
35 years OTR/TT

 

[Packmule]

Question,...If I am home for a week and mid week decide to take my truck 1-10 miles over to the truck wash or for an oil change, Do I need to log this time?? Never done it before but Pappy got me thinking that I may be wrong not to do this.
Dan

 

[davekc]

Yes, you are on duty driving there and back, and on duty not driving while you are doing the wash.


Davekc
owner
21 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[Packmule]

Dave,
Thanks for clearing that up for me before I got in trouble, over something so simple.

Dan

 

[cheri1122]

So what it means is that even though I don't have to log, in order to protect myself just in case I get a hazmat load, or am involved in an accident - I have to log, right?
Actually, it was an accident that caused me to realize that I'd been skating on thin ice - and will continue to do so if I follow the carrier's advice, because I'm sure that beyond the last 2 days, I'd just be guessing - my memory isn't that perfect!
The accident was the one that happened to the Beans, it was written about here, and I know that because the Beans were totally not at fault, the guilty party's lawyer will try even harder to paint them as liars. He will use any discrepency found in their logs vs the markers we all leave, everywhere we go, to "prove" that they sometimes fudge the truth.
I also know it could happen to me, or any driver, any time. What I wanted to know is: how can we accurately fill in hours worked the last seven days, if we don't log? It appears that we can't, because nobody can remember the last seven days completely enough to withstand the fine tooth comb treatment it would get were we to find ourselves in court after an accident.
Thanks for the feedback, & I still think the carrier is steering people in the wrong direction on this subject.
From now on, I log. Even though I hate it because I'm left handed, so my hand covers the categories on the left of the page, & I can't draw a line that doesn't veer up or down into another category, & I can't even see the numbers when it gets dark out - I will get a hat-light, & I will log. :' I guess it was just a very expensive lesson on not believing everything I hear, because I knew that falsifying a log is a felony - I just don't get why the carrier is not clarifying it. Could they be held liable if a driver points out that it was how he was told to do it?
Sorry to keep running on, it's just been bothering me a lot.

 

[greg334]

Cheri, I can see how this is really frustrating for a van driver, being one myself.

Many truck drivers are assumed guilty by the very fact they drive a truck. We are supposed to be professional drivers, meaning we are above the average driver in skill and knowledge and this sometimes works against us.

Many lawyers see money when there is an accident with any commercial vehicle, mainly because we as commercial drivers and owners have to carry certain types of insurance at minimal levels and the ambiguity of who is going to pay is cleared up, we do. Beside a lot of the times the insurance companies make it easier for us to get sued, they formulize the chances of a win and if it looks like they won’t win without putting in x % of effort, they just settle.

I passed the question of logging to my lawyer when I started last year and his advice was simply to cover myself as best as I can but don’t log unless I have to. Why? Because logging is a liability too that can be used against you. Many lawyers can argue in court that the DOT and 48 states don’t require logging for vans, hence can’t be used in evidence against you. He said that it all depends on the lawyer and his willingness to fight. Now this is his advice to me, not to you so do not take my post as legal advice.

Falsifying? I can’t say filling out a log two days after the event took place to the best of your knowledge is falsifying, is it? But again, many LEOs have this problem that they have to find something.

But with that said, I try, I say try to write my acceptance, arrival and delivery times on my copy of the BOL and can use that to estimate the past 7 days. I may also call dispatch or my contractor coordinator to have them pull my acceptance, pickup and delivery times for me. If it is where I sat for a day or two, I log sleeper and on duty time (I am in the truck) accordingly, if I drove, then well… I mark down that I drove. It is not hard but a pain.

As my friend (MSP trooper) said, she not looking for the fine things on the log, like the 15 minute blocks of time or a line a little off, her concern is the bigger picture, how many hours have you been driving, sleeping, on duty and have your hours been reset. As she put it, to her and her colleagues logging is about safety, not can I write a ticket.

Oh logging is my weakest part of this for me, can’t print worth a d*** and have a really hard time with straight lines, even with a rule.

Also as I think about it, even though you don’t log, there is a record through the Qualcomm of you movements which also can be used against you if they want to get picky with your log. I think that Qualcomm does keep a record of your actual movements for 14 days, not the company. I know they have some specialized services that track shippments, trailers and report the movement of these things at the end of the month, so I would assume tracking is part of their system that simply record everything. I may be wrong.

 

[cheri1122]

The computer won't let me edit my post, it's been too long, but I need to clarify one point - I was mistaken in the name of the couple who suffered the accident - it was not the Beans, it was the Rices. I aplogize to both teams, & anyone who was misled by my error. I guess if I can't tell the rice from the beans, I've probably been in Texas too long.....:+

 

[LDB]

Cheri,

Your carrier probably has a case of rulers they hand out to units that are required to log and they also supply the logbooks to them. You could ask them for the supplies and they should give them to you.

Leo Bricker, owner trucks 3034, 4958
OOIDA 677319
73's K5LDB
EO Forum Moderator 1+ Years of Service
Expediters Online.com - The Best is Getting Better!
-----
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[davekc]

I can tell you after 21 years that if there is a instance were maybe you should log, certainly do it.
Sadly, if you are driving a commercial vehicle, you are guilty of any infraction because you are there at that location.

Look at all the legal and lawyer ads wanting to recruit accident victims.
That by itself says there is a great profit in it for them.

Be careful out there.





Davekc
owner
21 years
PantherII
EO moderator