Hmmm Seems the American People were MISLED!!

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Actually learning about the food supply chain in the military a few weeks ago, we really don't even need cooks, let alone near a combat zone or even in country. It is amazing what has gone on with the military trying to ensure that they have a smooth flow of food and supplies.

BUT with that said, the real issue for me is the intake process and how some can't adapt to any military style discipline tied with the solution that they "accept it" and compensate for it all to keep the numbers up - pretty disgusting.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
A cook in support of front line operations should be a front line soldier, not a non-combative support person. A cook on a base should be a cook but always a solider first. If you are in a war zone, you are a solider.

See Layout, every person in the military takes an oath to the country, and that oath for better or worst means that their job is to fight - skills or no skills. If we start down the path of justifying people not fighting because of their "job classification" we are frickn' lost as a country. When Canada invades, and believe me the day is soon approaching, the cooks sitting in the mess tent near the front lines better get off their a**es, turn off the burners and pickup a rifle or any weapon other than a fork.

I agree that we have a weak military but who's fault is that?

I think it is a two fold issue, one is society has changed and we no longer view the military as a way to learn and the government has become dependent on technology over men.

Maybe we should consider our reformed military and our lack of conscription. Maybe we need to move back to actually teaching more than the skill of how to put on your cover and think as individuals.

I don't know

However I do know that we should not be a military who needs to be concern with the culture of the enemy at the level we have had been in combat zones (oh you can't shoot at anyone who may look like a Muslim). In addition I also feel we need to look at winning the war means actually winning the war without concern of what damage we do.

Our lack of real leadership is too obvious, but we have not had a real leader in a long time. I think even within the last 100 years. BUT since Wilson, we have had an up and down relationship with the military that we never had before and this has damaged us in many ways.

Greg, I am not trying to justify anything. I am well aware of the reality of being in the military. All I am saying is that to start off with the wrong troops is stupid. Once it hits the fan anyone can and will be called to do what is needed. Most will be able to respond. The cost is always higher when it reaches that level. The goal is to have the right units, a proper numbers and fully armed with proper support at all times. Then we don't need to resort to the "every man is a rifleman" answer.

As to our civilian leadership, what leadership? Every problem we have can be traced to them. The government IS the problem.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Greg, I am not trying to justify anything. I am well aware of the reality of being in the military. All I am saying is that to start off with the wrong troops is stupid. Once it hits the fan anyone can and will be called to do what is needed. Most will be able to respond. The cost is always higher when it reaches that level. The goal is to have the right units, a proper numbers and fully armed with proper support at all times. Then we don't need to resort to the "every man is a rifleman" answer.

As to our civilian leadership, what leadership? Every problem we have can be traced to them. The government IS the problem.

Military answers to Congress and the CIC....it is in the constitution...you know that...it is the law of the land..
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Military answers to Congress and the CIC....it is in the constitution...you know that...it is the law of the land..


When did I say different? That is our system and it is a good one. I don't want the military in charge of this Nation.

Too bad we keep electing idiots.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I got all of that but here is the thing, everyman is a rifleman, every person has a job to do above and beyond the basic tenet of their existance in the military - to fight.

NO one is exempt from it and this is where the problem is - an awful lot of people think they are too special, "not my job". A lot of people think this is just a job, and in many ways we make it out to be. Those people are not sacrificing, it is a job to them.

Cost?

I don't look at the costs of this, I am not a military general who has to be concern with the cost. I look at it from a different point of view:

If I can not fight because of what has been formed as the modern military, and someone else will have to and because of that I expect them to make the same sacrifice as I would for my country - it is that simple.

Once Layout we, the citizens were able to defend the country, many times it was this form of military that won a war or two, and it was the common man who led the way. No longer can we even defend our homes let alone our country and this is the issue with many who see people in uniform complaining "it's not my job" and see the difference between combat vets and so called vets which results in the feeling that everyone is absolutely equal from Generals down.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I am NOT saying that you have the "not my job" union type attitude in the military. You do not for the most part.

The job of the military IS to fight. To break things and kill people that is it.

To accomplish that you need a major team effort. Everyone's job is important. Everyone's job is to insure that the combat units are ready, supplied and able to do their job.

Use my MOS, 05H20, for example. I hacked dits. I was a "hog". My job was to intercept enemy radio transmissions. Those transmissions were analyzed for information. All kinds of information. Technical information. Military information. Locational information etc etc etc. The information was then used to move combat units to the right area, or move them out of a wrong one. Then they would be better able to break things and kill people. It took 10 months of intense training to learn how to do that job. It took even longer to learn how to be GOOD at it.

Sure, if ordered to put down my "cans" pick up a rifle and move out, I would have. That is how it is. I would NOT have been good in that role. I was not trained for it. I could shoot, only because I learned as a kid. IF I lived for a month or two I MIGHT have been worth something. Until then I would have been in the way.

If I did not do my job right, the analysts could not do their jobs right. Then infantry died. It is that simple. If all the "hogs" were sent to the front lines, well, it is over.

It takes team work. Every job must be done. There are NO unimportant jobs in the military. It is like a machine. All the cogs have to mesh for it to work. Break even one and the machine breaks down and can no longer do it's job.
 

witness23

Veteran Expediter
You seem to have a lack of understanding about the military. Yes, everyone is a "rifleman". In reality that is NOT correct. People are trained to do a certain job. It is that way for a reason.

From the article:
Last year, the Army decided that rather than devote permanent force structure to the growing security force assistance mission, it would modify and augment existing brigades.

The Army has three different standard brigade combat teams: infantry, Stryker and heavy. To build an Advise and Assist Brigade, the Army selects one of these three and puts it through special training before deploying.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
From the article:


Yes, my son is with a Stryker brigade.

He is NOT a rifleman. He WAS used as one when he was in Iraq. He primary job is logistics. That job went undone when ever he was in the field. If that went long term it would not be good for the entire unit.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
They are soldiers, they are "tank operator" but they will not be there to kill and break things...but they could die just the same... Oh they are just NOW being deployed to the sand box....

Troops still deploying to Mideast from BIA

Troops still deploying to Mideast from BIA - Bangor Daily News

8/24/10 09:43 pm Updated: 8/25/10 07:13 pm
By Dawn Gagnon
BDN Staff


BANGOR, Maine — As the nation watches troops being withdrawn from the Middle East, few perhaps are aware that another wave of soldiers is being deployed.

On Tuesday, a group of about 150 soldiers from the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment, based in Fort Hood, Texas, had a two-hour layover at Bangor International Airport on their way to southern Iraq.

“It’s funny because the big thing on the news as we were getting ready to leave was all the big hoopla about all the combat forces coming out, so all the soldiers and their families are asking, ‘Why are we going?’” Lt. Col. Bryan Mullins said.

“Well, we said it was the difference between the guys whose job it is to fight versus guys whose primary job it is to help people, or secure people, who are doing something else,” he said.

“So we are combat arms soldiers — I’m a tanker, we’ve got other tankers and artillery. But our job in Iraq is primarily going to be to training Iraqi security forces, cops, the [Iraqi] army, the border forces — they’ve got huge border forces,” he said.

“We haven’t been able to pay a whole lot of attention to those over the first six years because we were too busy doing other stuff,” he said. “So now, on the back end of the mission, we’re going to spend a whole lot more time and energy on that.”

The unit also will provide security for U.S. State Department personnel while in the Middle East, he said.

“They’re going to go out and work with the local government, so we’re going to go out and secure them while they work so nothing happens during the meetings, during the trainings that they do,” he said.

“So it’s going to be lots of advising and supporting, with the distinction being that this is not a combat thing. We’re not focused on that. We don’t go out looking for bad guys or IEDs [improvised explosive devices],” he said.

According to Mullins, who has 19 years of service under his belt, the unit’s initial deployment is for 12 months.

“But who knows? I’ve been on deployments that started off with a duration and changed to another duration,” he said.

According to Mullins, an estimated 5,000 members of the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment have been deployed and will be securing the southern half of Iraq.

“Historically, the south of Iraq has always been the safest,” he said. Adding that he had to choose his words cautiously, he said that the region essentially is “pure Shiite so there’s less infighting with Sunni groups. So it’s been fairly quiet.”

Among the group of departing soldiers was Pvt. Zane Clossey, whose father, Harold Clossey, is executive director of the Sunrise County Economic Council, headquartered in Machias.

The father and son planned to spend a little time together before the private had to get back on an airplane for the rest of his trip.

Pvt. Clossey, 20, said the last time he saw his family in Maine and New Brunswick was about two weeks ago, when he was in the area on a 21-day leave.
 
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