Hino turbo

[coalminer]

Yes, there's a special tool. It would be very difficult to install the seal perfectly without it. It's an unusual seal design, and they don't usually leak unless there's another problem. Overfilling the crankcase oil is a common cause. Leaking injector return pipe under the valve cover, diluting the oil and causing the oil level to rise is another reason it'll leak. That return pipe never fails unless it was installed incorrectly. Unfortunately, it's often installed incorrectly. Human error installing the pipe, and the resulting fuel dilution, is probably the #1 reason for catastrophic failures.

I had a feeling that without that tool, would be hard to get the alignment right, guess I might be taking it to the dealer to get that seal installed correctly, but it sounds like I have a bigger problem to deal with...When I took the valve cover off, I was amazed at how clean it was under it, maybe from having fuel leaking into the oil?????

What you say makes perfect sense now that you say it, I would see oil spots on the ground, and oil all over the bottom of the oil pan, and frame, and wonder, why isn't the oil level dropping more than what it is????

I am going to take the valve cover off again tomorrow morning and check the return pipe, any tips as to what I should look for???

Thanks for taking the time to respond!!!!

Also spongebox, there is a place that I have found that has used turbo's,

Isuzu NPR | Isuzu FTR | Isuzu Diesel | Mitsubishi Fuso Truck Engines | Nissan UD Truck Parts | Busbee's Trucks and Parts

You didn't say what year your truck is, but they have a few different Hino turbos.

 

[spongebox1]

I had a feeling that without that tool, would be hard to get the alignment right, guess I might be taking it to the dealer to get that seal installed correctly, but it sounds like I have a bigger problem to deal with...When I took the valve cover off, I was amazed at how clean it was under it, maybe from having fuel leaking into the oil?????

What you say makes perfect sense now that you say it, I would see oil spots on the ground, and oil all over the bottom of the oil pan, and frame, and wonder, why isn't the oil level dropping more than what it is????

I am going to take the valve cover off again tomorrow morning and check the return pipe, any tips as to what I should look for???

Thanks for taking the time to respond!!!!

Also spongebox, there is a place that I have found that has used turbo's,

Isuzu NPR | Isuzu FTR | Isuzu Diesel | Mitsubishi Fuso Truck Engines | Nissan UD Truck Parts | Busbee's Trucks and Parts

You didn't say what year your truck is, but they have a few different Hino turbos.

Ty sir, and our new hino friend has a lot of knowledge to share ..Ty sir

Sent from my VS910 4G using EO Forums mobile app

 

[greasytshirt]

On the side of the rocker box, among the injector lines, is a small steel line with banjo bolts on either end. You'll want to remove that, and put about 30 psi of regulated compressed air into the rocker box. The passage connects to the injector return pipe. If you see leakage at all anywhere, you've found the problem. This has to be corrected immediately. Each injector has a banjo bolt, and they're made of a normal steel, but the one that screws into the aluminum rocker box is very different. You can identify it by the + in the top of it. Different material, and the thread pitch is different. The sealing rings for this one are different than the injector sealing rings, too. It's slightly thicker. That bolt is designed to be torqued ONE time. ONCE. If you look at a used one, you'll see the hole going through it has elongated. It's supposed to do that.

If the injector return line has ever been bent or tweaked, replace it. If you're not sure, replace it. I replace them every single time I take the bolts out of it, along with all of the sealing washers and the + banjo bolt. When you replace the return pipe, thread all of the banjos in by hand all the way, in a way that the sealing rings don't get caught on the bolt threads. It has to go on evenly. The bit of the sealing ring that holds the two halves together (hard to describe) should not touch the line anywhere (they spin a little when you torque them, so position them so they can move a little but get tight before colliding with the line) Then they are torqued, starting in the middle and going in circles toward the outer bolts, to 110-115 lb/in That's about 9 lb/ft, but don't use a foot pound torque wrench. Not accurate enough. After you've torqued it, have someone come behind you and double check each one, making sure that they realize that we're talking about what seems like an insignificant amount of torque. Edging up on the torque, giving it a little extra, is not helping.

If these steps are followed, it will never fail.

 

[greasytshirt]

Also, we've seen where the engines are overfilled with oil by the drivers, and the high oil level will aggravate leakage in a specific way. The aluminum plate on the front of the engine that retains the front main seal...it looks like it has two little weep holes, one on either side. They're not weep holes, but they become weep holes when the rtv bond is broken between the plate and the block, from oil constantly flooding the area. It'll then **** down each side of the block. This is often the only early warning sign that the injector return pipe is leaking, and the oil level is slowly creeping up the stick.

 

[greasytshirt]

More turbo stuff: I don't know if this applies to an 06 or not, but 08-10 I know it does. Oil vapor canister on top of engine, between air compressor and valve cover, it's a black cylinder with a removable cap, but there's nothing really in there, it just allows oil vapor to condense, and excess crankcase gases to get sucked into the turbo...If you're seeing excess oil in the turbo, check the two rubber hoses (from this canister, and the valve cover) going into the intake pipe. If there's a noticeable amount of oil in there, adding a filter to that canister will help remove the excess oil droplets coming from the crankcase vapors. The cap from a 2011-13 truck sits up a lot taller. Order the cap and the filter. There's a separator tube or something in the old canister, you can pitch that thing and slide the filter in, in it's place. The taller cap screws right onto the old housing, and now that canister actually filters what gets sucked into the turbo. The excess oil is returned to the engine.

 

[greasytshirt]

Spongebox1,
Occasionally the molded seal between the rocker box and head starts leaking. Only happens on older, high mileage trucks.
The first time you remove the rocker box is a huge exercise in patience. The rocker shaft and cam have to come out. Timing this thing is easy enough, but once again there are several tricks. The cam cap bolts are torqued to different values. Yep, two bolts per cap, two different torques. Its because one threads into aluminum, the other into cast iron. All the injector lines come off, and they come off in order 1-6. They go back on in opposite order. The supply and retrun lines come off after the injector lines, and have to go on first before injector lines, or you'll never get them in. This takes forever on a good day. The injector return pipe I mentioned before comes into play. Get a new line, seals, and bolt with the cross on it. Put injector lines on by hand, the return pipe on by hand, torque the injector lines and clamps first, then the return lines. All of this fuss is an effort to avoid tweaking the return pipe.

Boy, typing a novel on a cell phone is a huge pain.

 

[coalminer]

On the side of the rocker box, among the injector lines, is a small steel line with banjo bolts on either end. You'll want to remove that, and put about 30 psi of regulated compressed air into the rocker box. The passage connects to the injector return pipe. If you see leakage at all anywhere, you've found the problem. This has to be corrected immediately. Each injector has a banjo bolt, and they're made of a normal steel, but the one that screws into the aluminum rocker box is very different. You can identify it by the + in the top of it. Different material, and the thread pitch is different. The sealing rings for this one are different than the injector sealing rings, too. It's slightly thicker. That bolt is designed to be torqued ONE time. ONCE. If you look at a used one, you'll see the hole going through it has elongated. It's supposed to do that.

If the injector return line has ever been bent or tweaked, replace it. If you're not sure, replace it. I replace them every single time I take the bolts out of it, along with all of the sealing washers and the + banjo bolt. When you replace the return pipe, thread all of the banjos in by hand all the way, in a way that the sealing rings don't get caught on the bolt threads. It has to go on evenly. The bit of the sealing ring that holds the two halves together (hard to describe) should not touch the line anywhere (they spin a little when you torque them, so position them so they can move a little but get tight before colliding with the line) Then they are torqued, starting in the middle and going in circles toward the outer bolts, to 110-115 lb/in That's about 9 lb/ft, but don't use a foot pound torque wrench. Not accurate enough. After you've torqued it, have someone come behind you and double check each one, making sure that they realize that we're talking about what seems like an insignificant amount of torque. Edging up on the torque, giving it a little extra, is not helping.

If these steps are followed, it will never fail.

I took the valve cover off, didn't have any compressed air to check it that way, but on 2 of the injectors, the little piece that holds the 2 gaskets together was touching the line on 2 of the injectors. And also I didn't see a + on top of that one banjo bolt.

I think I am going to replace that pipe just to be safe.

By the way, where are you at? might be worth it for me to bring the truck to where you work to check it out.

 

[greasytshirt]

A clogged air filter will make oil pull out of that canister. Also black smoke and low power.

 

[greasytshirt]

The tab touching the line isn't critical, but I don't trust it if it looks like its been into before. You can also put dye in the fuel, run it for a while, then pull the valve cover and look at the line with a blacklight. Oil wont spray everywhere, but id put cardboard on either side to avoid a huge mess.

 

[greasytshirt]

I can't recall seeing one of those bolts without a cross, and that con.cerns me. Kind of a lot

 

[greasytshirt]

Spongebox1,

You'd mentioned one of your truck runs hot. I'm attaching some pics to show how a clean radiator is misleading on these.

To really clean it well, unbolt the mounting brackets for the condenser, swing it out of the way with the hoses still attached (removing brackets as necessary), and remove the intercooler. Depending on how much road salt you encounter, the bolts in the aluminum intercooler may be very corroded, and you'll have to be pretty patient to get them out without breaking. Usually they come out without busting off, but some usually put up a fight.

As you can see, they will get absolutely packed. You'll have to go down each row of core. Don't get too close, or the fins will fold over. You may have to soak the whole thing with cleaner then blast it with a garden hose after a good soak. No pressure washer.

 

[spongebox1]

I got some pics for you but I was considering taking a video of the one hino so you can hear the sound of the turbo, no power loss or noticable oil but getting that non turbo whistle....

Sent from my VS910 4G using EO Forums mobile app

 

[RETIDEPXE]

Whoa!, that is one nasty radiator.

 

[greasytshirt]

Whoa!, that is one nasty radiator.

Quite a few of them on the road right now look like that, but no one ever bothers to take the CAC off to clean everything. If you see the temp gauge starting to rise over it's normal resting point and you're not pulling a hill in high ambient temps, then something is wrong and it needs to be found. This is often a contributor, but it's totally impossible to see unless the CAC comes off.

 

[greasytshirt]

Have you had a chance to check shaft play, both in and out and side to side? If you can get a hand on it, can you get the VNT mechanism to move?

 

[greasytshirt]

I got some pics for you but I was considering taking a video of the one hino so you can hear the sound of the turbo, no power loss or noticable oil but getting that non turbo whistle....

Sent from my VS910 4G using EO Forums mobile app

You can email them to me or post them here, either is fine.

 

[PerfPlusLBC]

Does anyone know if the VNT need to be calibrated or synced with the computer when the turbo is replaced? My mechanics can swap the turbo, but we aren't sure if it needs to be synced when replaced. It'd probably help if I mentioned it's a 2005 Hino 238, it has roughly 325K miles on it (also, how many miles does a turbo usually last on one of these trucks?).

Thanks!

I can't comment on the cost for the turbo but I had to remove the turbo on my Hino to replace the orings behind the oil filter housing and total time for me to remove and reinstall the turbo was 3 hours. If I would have had air tools it would have been even less .

 

[greasytshirt]

Does anyone know if the VNT need to be calibrated or synced with the computer when the turbo is replaced? My mechanics can swap the turbo, but we aren't sure if it needs to be synced when replaced. It'd probably help if I mentioned it's a 2005 Hino 238, it has roughly 325K miles on it (also, how many miles does a turbo usually last on one of these trucks?).

Thanks!

No sync necessary, it will take care of itself.

Their lifespan? That varies.
First, it's considered normal for them to pass a little oil. They all do it. It gets a little trickier on trucks 2008-up since they got rid of the road draft tube. crankcase gases get pulled in before the turbo, so it always looks like the turbos are passing oil.

Sometimes the VNT controller bricks. This can be made worse by missing heat shields on the exhaust manifold. If the truck is run in areas plagued with road salt, the VNT linkage can get rusty and seize. An aerosol can of Loctite Nickel antiseize solves that problem.

All trucks 2010 and older have floating bushings in the turbos. 2011 up went to a ball bearing turbo, which lasts longer.

I'd expect to get at least 250k out of it, but there are outliers on both sides of that (totally made up) number.

 

[PerfPlusLBC]

!!

No sync necessary, it will take care of itself.

Sweet, that's great news!

Their lifespan? That varies. First, it's considered normal for them to pass a little oil... I'd expect to get at least 250k out of it, but there are outliers on both sides of that (totally made up) number.

Ours doesn't seem to be passing oil, truck as 323K on it and the original turbo so maybe it's due.

Sometimes the VNT controller bricks...

A little history on the issue we are having: The truck is driven daily in Los Angeles on a 150 mile parts run with about a dozen stops along the way. It stopped making boost and the driver limped it to his next stop, I brought him another truck and I drove that one back. I got in and the truck ran fine for 15 minutes, then lost boost - wouldn't go over 50MPH on the freeway, down to 35MPH up a mild grade. Engine light was on. Stop and restart the truck and the light is out and it now can makes boost again for a few minutes, then light back on and no boost (BTW, truck is a 2005 Hino 238).

I am not 100% sure it's the VNT other than the dealer said it was (and I think that with this many miles on the original the turbo seems like a easy suspect). I am concerned that we will swap the turbo and find out it wasn't the turbo. Found a turbo online from a reputable place in San Diego for $1145. The other shop that I want to have do the install does't have a way to read codes so right now we are guessing if it's the VNT or not. Any thoughts on how to figure that out without being able to read the codes?

Any help appreciated!!!

 

[greasytshirt]

Re: !!

The other shop that I want to have do the install does't have a way to read codes so right now we are guessing if it's the VNT or not. Any thoughts on how to figure that out without being able to read the codes?

Any help appreciated!!!

There are several things that can cause low power like you're describing. Without the code, it's really a crapshoot. The dealer probably pulled a P0045, VNT abnormality. While it's probably going south, sometimes they just get stuck. Spray the VNT linkage with aerosol Loctite nickel antiseize, and with the ignition off push the linkage back and forth with a screwdriver or something. Might have to get under the truck to spray the bottom link. You'll know soon enough whether this works or not.

The VNT controllers of this era have a finite lifespan.