Hino Nightmare

[Broompilot]

Greg Posted does not understand why someone would buy new with so many used.

Well I fit into that Catagory on both sides.

When one is new comming into the business not knowing anything about Trucks or what to not or to look out for THAN I FEEL ITS A WISE MOVE if one can afford the down payment and purchase it. (NOT LEASE) but this guy leased as I read it.

Once you know trucks and understand them, ECM, Dyno, Mechanics approval and yours, a great used truck is a better financial plan or way to go. (my opinion your welcome to dissagree).

The problems this guy has expierenced calls for an ATTORNEY. Loss of income due to downtime alone should net him about $10K, DOCUMENT and photographs everything and hire an ATTORNEY FAST REALLY FAST. I would also include the Leasing co. and the company your running with in your suite, since they came up with the idea, both of those co.s will put pressure on the dealer to settle.

Now remember, this is now a used truck so as I began my RANT, someone is gona also buy this piece of junk, and I am sure the ECM and Dyno will pass inspections after the repairs are made, so there is no way to guarantee a GREAT truck just a way to eliminate at best a LEMON.

My other advice, never take a truck not designed or built to the specifications to the job its gona do. I built my new truck from paper and others advice from this site. A great truck for Expediting YES IT IS AND WAS. Had no problem selling it either for 100% of asking price. Problems as I went along yep, getting thru the break in period was a headache but nothing like your expierence.

The current truck I am is way below budget on repairs, although they happen and the stuff that is breaking or has broken I expected. Overall my value of new vs used, I will buy used. Thanks to people on this site, Kevin Rutherfrod, a Dyno Test, an ECM report and most of all a Good Mechanic to agree its a good buy.

NEWBEES; PLESE DO NOT EVER, EVER, DO A LEASE PURCHASE with the company your gona lease to: FED EX offered me this deal as well, it was sooo tempting with so little down. Here is the kicker, I was not at all happy as a SOLO with FEDX, if I wanted to change the agreement SAID NO. That alone would have cost me way way more than the any savings to hire an attorney to figure out how to Exit out of the Contract.

Buy purchasing without FEDX assistance I WAS FREE TO RUN "MY" business as I felt necessary. My success with my Decision netted me hundreds of thousands of dollars more with that single decision vs being locked in where I could not make a living as I saw it. I asked this question straight up to FEDX "When can I expect things to improve" The answer "SILENCE" on the other end of the phone. THAT WAS MY ANSWER, C H A N G E and as fast as I could, one not need a better answer than silence.

 

[pjjjjj]

Because they are not willing to fix your minor problem, maybe the solution would be, the next time the light comes on, jes keep runn'in her, an let em fix a bigger problem, and get it right. Prolly won't cost as much down time.

Now THAT sounds like a plan!

 

[PantherPower]

First off, as some of you may think because of my join date, I am not a newbie. I've been expediting for 3 years. I know exactly how the truck should have been built. Secondly, I am also a master mechanic. I am in no way naive about spec'ing, operating, or fixing a truck. To top it off, I was a warehouse and distribution supervisor for several years and I know this business from the other side of it as well. I was setting up expedites with NLM and loading Panther II and Roberts trucks back in the day.

The truck was ordered spec'd properly for the job at hand. I had no choice to run it until the corrections were made because the first payment was due the next week. Yeah, yeah, if I had the money banked up I wouldn't have had to. Some of us have been ripped off by certain fleet owners so bad that paying the bills is impossible, let alone saving up $10k. My last check with an owner was $75 for 1800 miles (40%???). I had to get my own truck.

My carrier doesn't dictate to me who, what, where, when, or why. At least I don't have that problem. As for an attorney, that would require money that I don't have. My problem. I only posted this story out of boredom.

 

[x06col]

First off, as some of you may think because of my join date, I am not a newbie. I've been expediting for 3 years. I know exactly how the truck should have been built. Secondly, I am also a master mechanic. I am in no way naive about spec'ing, operating, or fixing a truck. To top it off, I was a warehouse and distribution supervisor for several years and I know this business from the other side of it as well. I was setting up expedites with NLM and loading Panther II and Roberts trucks back in the day.

The truck was ordered spec'd properly for the job at hand. I had no choice to run it until the corrections were made because the first payment was due the next week. Yeah, yeah, if I had the money banked up I wouldn't have had to. Some of us have been ripped off by certain fleet owners so bad that paying the bills is impossible, let alone saving up $10k. My last check with an owner was $75 for 1800 miles (40%???). I had to get my own truck.

My carrier doesn't dictate to me who, what, where, when, or why. At least I don't have that problem. As for an attorney, that would require money that I don't have. My problem. I only posted this story out of boredom.

You kinda read like a nuther fella that types on here, and has all the answers. My question is then, why did you accept delivery in the first place if you understood it was not right, and with your wrenching skills, why don't you fix it? I understand parts are expensive, but downtime ain't free either. It's more fun screwing with the legalitys, when you have some coins jingling in your pocket.

 

[PantherPower]

Running it as is has been the norm for 18k of the 29k on the odometer. Do you want to be behind me when it drops to 35mph on the smallest of hills? It tops out at 50-55mph downhill with it floored! Sounds like a ticket or accident waiting to happen. No, it needs to get fixed correctly for once. More and more people are getting called and e-mailed from several people but no one responds. Gotta love this warranty and excellent customer service from Hino!

 

[LDB]

You might want to call an attorney or two. With lost time, lost revenue etc. your claim would be fairly substantial. You might find one to take it on contingency with no up front money. It costs you a little time looking for one but that's all.

 

[Broompilot]

Gotta give Col the credit:

He is right new Poster on all counts. He did not even leave one open spot for me to jab him (which we both love doing to one another).

Your in Business, sorry for your pain but being broke and in business will only cost you loss revenue, income, or pain. In your case I see it as all THREE maybee more.

This Site is to inform others, you have done a great job of warning others. We want to help not attack, but over and over again it has been written and the WARNING signs and Stories have been posted to help others from makaing the same mistakes.

I truley wish you the best and this is not meant to be an attack, your last post read a few heated sentances in there and after all when in business no one has anyone to blame but oneself for not having back up plans as you wrote. I did when my back was against the wall.

 

[PantherPower]

I had to run it to pay my bills and because the first payment was due the very next week. I was already down for a month waiting on the title and couldn't afford to wait the next month it took them to correct it. Once the truck was delivered to E-1 for me to pick up, the payment clock was ticking. I didn't jump out of the truck I was in and hastily get in this one. I gave notice to my owner when I ordered the truck, and got out of it 5 days before this one was to be delivered. Besides, the mistakes they made building the truck is irrelevant to my situation now.

I would be happy to fix it myself, but that voids the warranty and I'm fresh out of Hino diagnostic software to communicate with the ECM.

How is it that I have all the answers? Because I can spell, punctuate, and give a reply when someone asks me why this or why that?

LDB,

Thanks for some sound advice and lack of sarcasm and criticism. One of the few people I can expect that from. Seems like too many people want to start an argument and insinuate stupidity or naivety.

 

[x06col]

Nah. Was not insinuating anything. The only message here wuz- you are the paying customer, don't allow others to force you costly errors. Details were not watched it seems. Above all, YOU dictate the delivery, not someone else, when things are right and good to go.

 

[Broompilot]

KG I went back and read these Posts over again.

I am glad to say I did not see what you were trying to say by knocking everyone on here but Leo. Did he post the Lawyer thing before mine or did I do it first? I do not remember reading his when I posted.

Leos comment on a Lawyer taking it on Assignment: Right Leo just what every Lawyer went to school for is to take small claims on Contigence. Just so new poster you do not waist your time THAT AINT EVER GONA HAPPEN unless your Uncle is a Lawyer or you got pictures of a Lawyer with a Mistress in a Hotel room. Its not big enough $ for one to not charge you for those are for the Big $.

Sarcasim, I did not see it. A smart Arse I am but in no way am gona knock a guy down further than he already is. Facts are facts and I still agree with the Col. you put your back against the wall and accepted a truck with bad specs not checking everything from top to bottom assuming they gave you a great truck and stuck you with the problems. Its that simple, they took advantage of you and the Ts were not crossed and Is not dotted and its now your business problem to solve. Like I said I wish you Luck.

 

[LDB]

This is far beyond a small claims amount by now, provided it can all be documented. It sounds like it can. With the amount of forced downtime plus lost revenue on some loads it's probably in the $20-25k range by now. Not a fortune by any means but perhaps enough for a young lawyer trying to get established to take it on and put in a few hours writing letters and making calls. Perry Mason isn't going to touch it but William Talbot might. (Name pulled out of thin air as an example of an obscure individual, unlike Perry Mason).

 

[pjjjjj]

Who knows, maybe there is a class action already started somewhere, seems a few aren't happy with their hinos.

 

[Broompilot]

This is far beyond a small claims amount by now, provided it can all be documented. It sounds like it can. With the amount of forced downtime plus lost revenue on some loads it's probably in the $20-25k range by now. Not a fortune by any means but perhaps enough for a young lawyer trying to get established to take it on and put in a few hours writing letters and making calls. Perry Mason isn't going to touch it but William Talbot might. (Name pulled out of thin air as an example of an obscure individual, unlike Perry Mason).

20K is SMALL CLAIMS for an Attorney to take it on Contigency. Good Luck with Mr. Talbot or finding one. This guys only course of Action is to come up with the $ to hire an Attorney. Finding one for Free, good luck even getting an appointment. Not that I am not speaking from past expierence, I had a NAILED DOWN SHUT CASE and WON. But not on Contigency I PAID UP FRONT for the Services Judgement was $33K in my favor.

The guy sounds like he has a good case, if his ducks and documents are in order and IF HE HAS THE MONEY to pay for an Attorney.

Now Leo why do you not do this you try to find him a free attorney, and if not you pay for all Lawyer fees and split the earnings with the guy? Win Win? Thats exactly what your asking an Attorney to do and it just does not work that way. This is a business suite, not a wrongfull negligent accident suite that we see advertised on Billboards.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Make some calls. If one of the bigger ones won't do it, then they might tell you of someone who will. You're probably looking at $1000 up front, and payments for the rest. Won't know till you call.

 

[greg334]

I would be happy to fix it myself, but that voids the warranty and I'm fresh out of Hino diagnostic software to communicate with the ECM.

Now I am wondering, how would fixing it void the warranty?

I don't see that happening or am I missing something in the big wide world of class7/8 commercial vehicles?

Also I think there is things out there to read the codes. I am sure it is J1939 or something like that.

 

[LDB]

I suggested looking for a law firm that would take the case on contingency. I know lawyers do this all the time, substantially on personal injury but in other areas as well that promise a payback. I also suggested a new attorney who has only a small client base might be more inclined to take it on and put in an hour or two writing letters and making calls, time he/she might otherwise not have client work to fill. I know that brand new lawyers start out hungry working at low hourly rates until they get established. For some reason another member has their shorts in a knot to prove me wrong and apparently wants to make me look bad for offering an opinion. I make no apology for offering my opinion and advice on this or any other subject on these forums. I give what I believe is sound advice. To that end I spent about 2 minutes online and found the following at lemonlaw.com but there are many many many more sites than this one. I have no intention of playing any games over this. My opinion stands as given. Here's some info with plenty more out there to be found.



Welcome to LEMON LAW .COM, the online home of Kimmel & Silverman, providing 100% cost-free lemon law help to distressed drivers. We also help with dealer fraud cases, including dealer misrepresentation, odometer rollback and spot delivery scams.

As one of the country's oldest, largest and most recognized lemon law firms, we have provided free legal help to more than 45,000 consumers and have succeeded in obtaining more new vehicles and refunds for our clients than any other lemon law firm in the Northeast. Our site will answer all of your questions about the lemon laws in states we service: Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Maryland, Massachusetts, Ohio, Vermont, Rhode Island, Washington DC, New Hampshire, and Delaware.

If your lemon car, truck or motorcycle is in the shop three or more times, you may be entitled to a NEW VEHICLE or REFUND and legal help is free. Call 1-800 LEMON LAW (1-800-536-6652). We handle every detail of your Lemon Law case with minimal participation and at no cost to you. Many claims are settled promptly outside of court and you can drive your vehicle throughout the entire process.

 

[PantherPower]

I keep seeing over and over that I shouldn't have accepted the vehicle. THOSE problems were fixed. That isn't the issue that has caused all of my grief. The truck was in and out for that and THAT dealer did a great job at puting the truck into the condition it was supposed to be in.

The problem is the check engine light accompanied by loss of power. The code is P0087. The dealers know this and the Hino rep knows this. I am just coming back into service today after dealer #6 blew out the lines(!!) and drained the tanks. They finally put on a new pump and replaced all of the injectors yesterday. They had the truck since Monday. The service tech, shop Foreman, and myself all agreed it may be the check valve. My fuel is getting up to 170 degrees in the driver side tank. This was stated to the rep, but instead of giving the permission to replace a $20 check valve, he had them replace $8600 of injectors and the pump! I am willing to bet the light comes back on.

The valve leaks fuel back into the tank and it is circulating the fuel from the tank to the engine and back to the tank. It builds up heat and then the light comes on and I lose power. It is called vapor lock.

Someone asked why fixing it would void the warranty. ME fixing it would void the warranty. I am not a Hino authorized repair facility.

Again, the lemon law doesn't apply to leased vehicles.

MCL 257.1401

NEW MOTOR VEHICLE WARRANTIES

Definitions.
Sec. 1. As used in this act:

"Consumer" means any of the following, but does not include a lessee of a new motor vehicle:

 

[PantherPower]

More from the "lemon law" for the State of Michigan

(f) “Motor vehicle” means a motor vehicle as defined in section 33 of the Michigan vehicle code, 1949 PA 300, MCL 257.33, that is designed as a passenger vehicle, or sport utility vehicle, but does not include a motor home, bus, truck other than a pickup truck or van, or a vehicle designed to travel on less than 4 wheels.

 

[greg334]

I would get a lawyer for two reasons;

The lawyer will advise you what you can do legally to get someone to listen at Hino

AND

The lawyer can tell Hino that they must cover all repairs, reimburse you for what you already paid for or you will sue them in federal court under the Clean Air Act Warranty Provisions, 42 USCS 7541 c 3 B and maybe under California law too.

The Clean Air Act Warranty Provisions makes it clear that the manufacture is to cover the emission electronic controls and on board diagonositc devices, which the fuel injection unit, fuel injectors, the fuel pumps and anything else that has to do with metering, controlling or maintaining the fuel for emissions is covered. This means that the entire fuel system from the lines at the tank to the injectors are specifically made to maintain a specific measurable emission and because the truck can't, making it out of compliance, the dealer/manufacture needs to make the repairs.

This sounds like a stretch but it isn't. I can't tell you where I got this from, but if the lawyer is technically savvy, he/she can come up with a solid reason and may bring able to help you with the problem.

 

[PantherPower]

Well, so far, so good. Got the truck last Thursday. Sat at the Dallas Flying J until Monday morning. Took a load to Wichita from there (342 miles) with NO problems! Fuel economy is back up to 9 to 9.5mpg Downside is I've been sitting in Wichita since Monday afternoon!

Before everyone jumps me about sitting so long;

Normally I would have deadheaded to Kansas City days ago, but with no income for the last 3 weeks (and empty tanks), I'm at the mercy of the freight. Been asking for a paid move, but not getting any help there.

The leasing company has deferred 5 payments for me so all will be well if I can ever get back out of corn country!