Help with finding the wight truck

[RMPM01]

Help with finding the right truck

Hello Ladies and fellas.

I've looked for a straight truck for about two months now and I got to say i'm still confused with all the choices. I got some questions for you.

Is C7 Caterpillar engines 210 or 250hp any good for OTR ?

Is MBE900 Mercedes Engine 230 hp really recommended for OTR ?

Is it worth it to buy a straight truck with out a van box. ( the reason is. I would like to buy a sleeper of my choice and then add a 22ft or 24ft box )

Do tire size matters much ?

What ratio is recommended for OTR?

Sorry for all those questions but I would hate to invest $$ with out double checking with your guys opinions.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Camper]

Hello Ladies and fellas.

I've looked for a straight truck for about two months now and I got to say i'm still confused with all the choices. I got some questions for you.

Is C7 Caterpillar engines 210 or 250hp any good for OTR ?

Is MBE900 Mercedes Engine 230 hp really recommended for OTR ?

Is it worth it to buy a straight truck with out a van box. ( the reason is. I would like to buy a sleeper of my choice and then add a 22ft or 24ft box )

Do tire size matters much ?

What ratio is recommended for OTR?

Sorry for all those questions but I would hate to invest $$ with out double checking with your guys opinions.

Thank you in advance.

Personally, between the two engines, I would go with the C7. That's just my personal preference as I'm not too keen on Benz engines. The C7 isn't ideal but it will suffice for OTR.

If this is going to be your first truck, you're better off opting for something used rather than a customized setup. If you go for that new setup and the business doesn't workout, you're going to recoup anywhere near your investment if you need to liquidate.

 

[RMPM01]

THX Camper for a quick response

Yes, it would be my first truck. I'm trying to upgrade from a CV.

I was looking at used unit, like 2006 or 2007 that I could customize.

I can't see my self in those extended 28 inch cabin/sleepers that I see in freightliner trucks.

 

[Slacktide]

I would narrow your search to class 8 trucks. The "business class" trucks don't hold up as well OTR. The small engines that you questioned are just that, small engines. They have to work much harder to do what we do out here. You will find that the class 8 may be more $ up front but will last much longer. "Pay me now pay me later" almost always costs you more if you pick "pay me later". Generally selling a well maintained class 8 if the need arises is easier. Just look at all the m2's for sale in the EO classifieds, people are wanting to get rid of them for a reason. Just my 2 cents. Good luck to you in your search.

Posted with my Droid EO Forum App

 

[FREE TO FAIL]

Cat motors are junk... two expensive to fix some you cannot rebuild and cat out of market which poses long term parts and service problems.

Mercedes motors are absolutely horrendous, major expensive problems with egr motors constantly... again very very expensive to rebuild. very weak power as well. Coupled with a 6 speed auto not very fuel effecient for otr work.

Best small displacement motors are the cummins 8.3b motors. The b motors (isb) are good, isc are better, plenty of power used to be the M11... very nice motor. Big horses are the N14 and isx, like the N14s better cheaper to fix.

The best motors out are the Detroit series 50's and 60's, powerful, cheap to fix and about anyone can work on them. Hard to find the series 50's though.

As for the new motor, International maxforce, no idea jury is still out, i dont want to pay to be a pioneer.

 

[RMPM01]

Re: Help with finding the right truck

So,

ISC Cummins Engine 240 hp would good then. I was looking at Cummins engines as well.

I was aiming for a Freightliner truck.

 

[purgoose10]

As was stated earlier about the medium duty engines. Usually 400,000 and your looking for engine work so like stated before your better off with a class 8. Yes right now Detroits are pretty much the best if you don't do engine work yourself. Cummins ISX is a good engine.
Now as far as transmissions and gearing. Go to a dealership, sit down with a salesman and have him put it on a computer. They have programs for any combination engine, tranny, gear you can think of and they will print it out for you. Tell them your shopping and don't know what to get. Don't guess, what's good for others may not be good for you.
Just a thought.

 

[FREE TO FAIL]

240 hp is a low horse motor for otr 300 to 330 good in a class 7 truck. No substitute for horsepower. If you can a 9 speed is the way to go, no spicer 7 speeds break alot and expensive to repair. Eaton fuller 6 is better then the spicer 7. But a 9 or ten speed is great for otr with a .74 final good fuel economy.

 

[kwexpress]

IMO if I would forget about the custom sleeper thing.if its your first truck I would get me a used tractor 2000 or so with a detroit 60 with the 10 speed at 430-500 hp.

stretch it put a 22 or 24 ft box just keep your total truck under 40'
remember your need to keep your box age under 10 yrs old so if this is something you plan on doing for 3 yrs then get a box no older than a 2004 but you might as well get a new one as it can be transfered to another truck if needed you decide to upgrade.

 

[greg334]

Well here's my opinion.

I would not bother with a 3126/C7 cat engine. They are out of production, parts are hard to find and the cost to rebuild by a good mechanic is rather expensive.

I would look at both Cummins and Mercedes, both are well supported and both are built to do a hard job. NO matter, Mercedes has issues with EGR engines (post 2003) but not all of them have those issues.

Cummins engines - isb or isc - are very good engines BUT I would not use the isb for this work. ISC 275 or 300 is about right, you can take a 240 and move it to 275 without too much hassle.

Transmissions... I don't know. I wouldn't get an automatic but that's me. I have a spicer basic 6+1 and I am well ... very happy with it. it has the right spread for the engine I have (isc 275) and puts me right in the sweet spot of the engine when running at 62 mph.

Class 7 or 8 - well it depends. I would not get a class 8 and stick a sleeper on it, I would just go with the factory sleeper. Class 7 is a bit different. BUT overall a lot of 7's are million mile trucks (mines at 765k right now and I do expect to get a million out of it). HOWEVER I have seen three 8's with almost 2 million miles on them. The difference is this - the cost of parts and labor over the life of the truck. IF it is well taken care of - it sometimes a wash.

You can go to the dealer and get an idea what the gearing will be but here is what you are going to need to know;

1 - tire size ... very important to know because there are so many tire sizes. I'm planning on upgrading my truck to an 8 and the first thing I will do is put new tires on it unless it is a new truck.

2 - get a few transmission models on a list to bring to the dealer. my spicer 6+1 is a direct drive but a 10 speed with OD may need different gearing.

3 - the new engines are different than the older ones. SO keep in mind when trying to get the guy to figure out the gearing for you with a non-egr/dpf engine. Most engine sweet spots are where the maximum efficiency is which is also the maximum rating of the engine - for the ISC it is 1750 to 1825.


Hope that helps.

 

[FREE TO FAIL]

Well in response i think i would still stay away from the mercedes. Price the parts out and you will see exactly how expensive ownership can be. The turbo alone is over 3k installed when the cummins is half that. My freightliner with the mercedes WAS AND IS most expensive truck maintance-wise I ever owned. It cost over 12k a year to keep running, Sold it and within 3 months the engine blew at 459,000. over 21,000.00 to replace with a new motor as these are non rebuildable. Quite simply the trucks that have this motor are not worth the money you have to invest in them to keep running. Can be a real hardship when the rates are low.

 

[greg334]

Well I would agree but knowing Mercedes a bit more than Cummins, I see the issues and know many of them are because poor maintenance. The response to repairs and parts seem to be a bit better than Cat, on par with Cummins BUT you have to remember that parts prices for Cummins is cheaper because of the long term third party (after market) parts relationship with Cummins and suppliers.

If you have a choice, I would take Cummins over Mercedes but Mercedes over and 3126/C7 cat any day.

 

[FREE TO FAIL]

Greg is quite right most of the class 7 trucks you see built are spec'd with a very high rear axle ratio, not meant for expediting and they are just terrible. The best thing you can do is get the truck on the highway and see what the motor is turning at highway cruising speeds. A crappy class 7 truck will be turing 1750 to 1900 rpms at cruise. The big class 8s will be turning 1450 to 1550 at the same speed. If you can pull a hill with it before you buy, do so. If you lose any speed on the climb the motor is weak or the truck is not set up right for your needs. This is very important as nothing is worse then buying a truck that lacks guts, your stuck with it and their is very little you can do about it. I go back to the mercedes, that thing couldnt hold a climb to save its life. Always lost 5 to 10 miles an hour on any climb. Down right dangerous.

 

[bluejaybee]

All of these comments are mostly the opinion of the poster. "Crappy class 7's"???? Sure there are some crappy one's, but I would venture to say that the majority of expediting trucks out there right now, are class 7. I will say that I am beginning to see more class 8's, but the 7's have hauled the mail for many years and people got by with them.

And to say that Cat parts are hard to find is not true in my opinion. I have never had a problem with getting anything I needed for mine. And the 3126 can be rebuilt and not that much more costly than any other. All opinions. Mine is 250HP and pulls hills good. I am happy with it.

What is best and baddest will never be settled here as most like their setup. My advise to you would be to get in the cheapest dependable truck you can find and then learn from it what it will take to make you happy. I am on my third cheap used truck. My next one, if I don't retire, will be a class 8. After 6 years, I know what I want and what I need to do it like I want.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Moot]

no spicer 7 speeds break alot and expensive to repair.

The Spicer 7 speed, at least the old non-synchro ones were bullet proof and pretty much moron proof.

 

[greg334]

The Spicer 7 speed, at least the old non-synchro ones were bullet proof and pretty much moron proof.

Agreed, you can't find a better trans. 9 speeds are not always the best choice for some engines, the ISC I have seems to work really well with the 6+1 and driving a 9 speed a while back with an ISC, it just didn't work right.

 

[FREE TO FAIL]

You may be right on the old non syncro spicers, have no knowledge on how they hold up, All i can speak to is the other ones, which are not as good as the 6 speed eatons for reliability.

I will admit that perhaps stating a generality like " a crappy Class 7" is to broad a brush to paint with, I am sure that there are some fine trucks running around. But lets face it in otr your buying a truck that is working hard to suit the environment, vs a class 8 thats built for the environment.

Used truck pricing being what it is now, a class 8 will serve you better for longer, for about the same money.

 

[tenntrucker]

The Spicer 7 speed, at least the old non-synchro ones were bullet proof and pretty much moron proof.

That's what i'm running, have 650,000 on it and still going. It's hooked to a cummins 8.3. I' m very happy with the set up.

Sent from my DROID X2

 

[RETIDEPXE]

A lot of used M2's for sale out there because Freightliner is the largest class 5-8 truck manufacturer in North America. Stands to reason when the 'FL' models went away, the M2 would be a popular choice.

When we researched our first truck, and knowing we would run team, room and comfort were important as well as motor/trans configs. We went with the M2 because of the cab width upfront vs KW'S and Petes, and the Georgia Classic 98" sleeper with the jump seat was an affordable starter. You want to be comfortable to make it in this business, the sleeper will be your home away from home for 4 to 6 weeks at a time. We found a repo with 78k mi.s and a Cat C9/Allison 6 speed/4.30 gears for a decent price from Middle Georgia FL in Macon that fit the bill.

I have never had a problem with parts for the Cat C9 335 horse. We have had some to be expected injector and pump issues with 601k mi.s on the clock, but overall the C9/Allison combo has worked well for us. I especially like that it has no dpf or egr ('07 truck with an '06 motor from the factory) and as far as I can tell, ACERT has no moving parts and has not been a problem. Truck for real avg's overall 9.43 mpg running mostly 58mph, sometimes faster, as reported by mygauges.com user name 'kittyc9'. She runs 1475 rpm at 58 in 5th gear. Will run 1450 at 65 mph in 6th but knocks the mpg down to @ 8.75.

It is our plan to run this truck to around 800k mi.s at which time we will do an inframe (C9 is a wet sleeve motor) and any other necessary mntnce items until it becomes non feasable regarding the epa's sucky future mandates. Save the planet don't ya know!

 

[FREE TO FAIL]

Speaking of fuel economy one of my trucks with a 9 speed eaton, detroit S60 at 470 hp with a 4.23 rear gear (lift axle down) empty weight of over 22k gets between 11 to 11.5 at 65 mph and 10.5 at 75 miles an hour, last trip haulin balls out at about 78 in the flat lands with a load.

Went from Seattle to Kingston RI over every hill passing everything, and fuel for 3180 miles was 1400.00 with half tanks left at the end. Thats the kinda truck I like. The truck cruises 65 at 1400 rpm.

This is probably the best truck I own right now for power to fuel economy ratio, as you can tell by the axle ratio the 9 speed is what makes the difference. Sure you can get 10.5 to 11 out of the class 7s but not out west, and not at 70 plus miles an hour.

The mercedes in the m2 is a total dog in the rockies as it runs out of air, so burns way more fuel. Coupled with an allison slush box, it keeps the motor running at that 1850 to 2200 range, where its starving for more air. Look at the dinky size of the intercooler and radiator, it just cant flow and cool enough thin air to run effeciently like on I70 in Colorado. (Interestingly mecedes puts a 90 degree bend in the air path right before it gets into the motor ) If you want to test it yourself put a pyro on your motor.

My point is if your running out west a high horse class 8 is the way to go. If your just bopping around the auto corridor use what ever ya want. (except a hino or mercedes)