Health Insurance for Expediters; What do You See?

[ATeam]

"A very small issue" is probably a good way to look at it as long as it's someone else facing financial ruin and being forced from their house when clearly they already have enough on their plate.

But that does bring up a serious point that I've never heard anyone address properly - how many people got screwed by the insurance companies? Does anyone have any facts? If it's only a handful over many, many years I'd like to know. And if it was a significant percentage I'd like to know that as well.

You seem convinced that the cancellation of commercial health insurance policies is a widespread if not near-universal fact. I'm not sure that is the case. On what do you base your critique?

That is not to say that there are not people out there who have been screwed by insurance companies. Indeed there are. But widespread cancelation of health insurance policies when a lump is found? I'm not so sure.

 

[paullud]

Really Dave...Death Panels?....I thought you were above that....you had death panels here....no insurance, no heart transplant...the heart would go to the person who was insured.....

When there are big problems like that usually the local community and family just does fund raisers or charity groups step in.

Now I am insured with Wellmark/BC with a reasonable premium and a reasonable deductible...reasonable in my world. Now insured and paying my own way without being a drag on the system....thereare millions and millions more in my boat that are a little happier now the big bad insurance companies have been slapped down a notch....

You aren't paying your own way and you are a bigger drag on the system now, harsh but it is reality. That is why the whole insurance industry is relying on healthy young people too pay for things that they don't need, it is to take care of people like you. When you didn't have insurance you paid your own way as there was no other option and there was no system for you to be a drag on. Obamacare is exactly the opposite of what you just stated.

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[OntarioVanMan]

When there are big problems like that usually the local community and family just does fund raisers or charity groups step in.



You aren't paying your own way and you are a bigger drag on the system now, harsh but it is reality. That is why the whole insurance industry is relying on healthy young people too pay for things that they don't need, it is to take care of people like you. When you didn't have insurance you paid your own way as there was no other option and there was no system for you to be a drag on. Obamacare is exactly the opposite of what you just stated.

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No... I paid no bills...

That's is how universal HC works ... Everyone pays for someone....

 

[davekc]

Really Dave...Death Panels?....I thought you were above that....you had death panels here....no insurance, no heart transplant...the heart would go to the person who was insured.....

I am with Wandering.....this is the first time I've been insured without paying an arm and a leg....the HIGH risk pool because under the old system insurance companies would not risk covering me as there would be NO profit for them...they'd let me die in the street...again death panel....NOT doctors but insurance folks....don't give me this crap about death panels....
Now I am insured with Wellmark/BC with a reasonable premium and a reasonable deductible...reasonable in my world. Now insured and paying my own way without being a drag on the system....thereare millions and millions more in my boat that are a little happier now the big bad insurance companies have been slapped down a notch....

I said "death panels was a harsh word" but lets not kid each other. The commitees are already in place to determine what proceedures and at what age they will or won't perform something.
These people are bean counters rather than physicians. This is specifically for the people in the medicare system. Who knows on individual policies as there is so many of them.
As far as people dying in the street, where is this happening? I have heard of no cases where that has happened.
As mentioned, this is nothing more than moving money around. Have no insurance, you still get treated. Same in your case. If you as stated claim you show near zero for your AGI, you are recieving taxpayer government money for your policy.
So in that regard, nothing has changed. Taxpayers are footing your bill whether you have coverage or not.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

I said "death panels was a harsh word" but lets not kid each other. The commitees are already in place to determine what proceedures and at what age they will or won't perform something.
These people are bean counters rather than physicians. This is specifically for the people in the medicare system. Who knows on individual policies as there is so many of them.
As far as people dying in the street, where is this happening? I have heard of no cases where that has happened.
As mentioned, this is nothing more than moving money around. Have no insurance, you still get treated. Same in your case. If you as stated claim you show near zero for your AGI, you are recieving taxpayer government money for your policy.
So in that regard, nothing has changed. Taxpayers are footing your bill whether you have coverage or not.

The die in the street comment was more for impact.... BUT this new way or the old way the bean counters are deciding life and death... Private bean counters or government makes no difference

 

[paullud]

The die in the street comment was more for impact....

Must be beat up OVM day.

The term death panels is used for the exact same reason as someone saying people are dying in the streets but somehow the term death panels is right wing rhetoric.

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[OntarioVanMan]

That's ok Paul.... To be honest I wouldn't really know a good price for a policy.... I've never had to buy insurance before.... I've had it too easy.

 

[davekc]

Must be beat up OVM day.

The term death panels is used for the exact same reason as someone saying people are dying in the streets but somehow the term death panels is right wing rhetoric.

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I wouldn't necessarily call them "death panels" but you are correct, the hard right refers to them as such. Kind of like the democrats portraying the right pushing granny off the cliff in a wheelchair.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Cool how some stories take on a life of their own....things get a little stretched....

 

[WanderngFool]

You seem convinced that the cancellation of commercial health insurance policies is a widespread if not near-universal fact. I'm not sure that is the case. On what do you base your critique?

That is not to say that there are not people out there who have been screwed by insurance companies. Indeed there are. But widespread cancelation of health insurance policies when a lump is found? I'm not so sure.

You missed the part of my post where I said:

Does anyone have any facts? If it's only a handful over many, many years I'd like to know. And if it was a significant percentage I'd like to know that as well.

I didn't have a lot of time to google and it's hard to get past the recent Obamacare mess (if you try googling "insurance cancelled", 90+% of what you get is recent history). I finally found a search word that gets past that - "rescission". If you google "insurance rescission" you'll get a wikipedia page and many pages talking about people's horror stories and a lawsuit or 2 against the insurance companies. I still don't know how widespread the practice was, and I'll look later when I get a little time, but my feeling is that it must have been widespread.

Google rescission and read a few stories. It's pretty chilling stuff and it wasn't just lesser known insurance companies either - Blue Cross got their hands dirty too.

https://www.google.com/search?safe=...9.0....0...1c.1.30.serp..0.12.813.yDT1Bnj17Ho

I wrongly assumed that everyone knew that insurance companies were capable of cancelling anyone that hurt their bottom line. I'm really surprised that any of this is news to anyone. I think that says alot about how crappy (and partisan) the news media has become.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

One of our very own members here and a poster in this thread...his wife paid her premiums faithfully every month for over 20 yrs....then 1 yr she had a problem...the very next renewal her policy was cancelled for pre existing condition....they want want the best of the best and didn't want to pay out...that was under the old system...same insurance companies in charge, now add the government intrusion...it is going to be a real mess for many years.....

 

[paullud]

I wrongly assumed that everyone knew that insurance companies were capable of cancelling anyone that hurt their bottom line. I'm really surprised that any of this is news to anyone. I think that says alot about how crappy (and partisan) the news media has become.

No, you wrongly assumed that we did not know that already. You seem to keep missing things. You are claiming that it was a problem so that would be on you to come up with numbers. The ones I have seen the person stopped paying because they weren't working and had their insurance cancelled or the policy wasn't renewed which the insurance company has every right to do. Is that customer service? Nope. Is it kind of crappy? Yup, but as customers we could have forced the issue by getting rid of insurance or threatening to until they signed longer policies. We could have done much more but instead the nanny government of ours continues to strip us of power so that we end up needing them more and more.

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[OntarioVanMan]

No, you wrongly assumed that we did not know that already. You seem to keep missing things. You are claiming that it was a problem so that would be on you to come up with numbers. The ones I have seen the person stopped paying because they weren't working and had their insurance cancelled or the policy wasn't renewed which the insurance company has every right to do. Is that customer service? Nope. Is it kind of crappy? Yup, but as customers we could have forced the issue by getting rid of insurance or threatening to until they signed longer policies. We could have done much more but instead the nanny government of ours continues to strip us of power so that we end up needing them more and more.

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How do you figure?...we need them more?....the government isn't doing the insuring...they are making the rules now.....the same profiteers are insuring us....

 

[WanderngFool]

No, you wrongly assumed that we did not know that already. You seem to keep missing things. You are claiming that it was a problem so that would be on you to come up with numbers. The ones I have seen the person stopped paying because they weren't working and had their insurance cancelled or the policy wasn't renewed which the insurance company has every right to do. Is that customer service? Nope. Is it kind of crappy? Yup, but as customers we could have forced the issue by getting rid of insurance or threatening to until they signed longer policies. We could have done much more but instead the nanny government of ours continues to strip us of power so that we end up needing them more and more.

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I keep missing things?

How on earth did you manage to get into insurance companies cancelling people for not paying their bill? Of course people get cancelled for that. Duh. Did you bother to do the google search I suggested? I posted a clickable link to make it easy.

 

[zorry]

Just a general insurance note. Know of a guy had a very large fleet of milk trucks in Wisconsin.
No claims in like 15 plus years.

Cancelled !

Why ?

Bean counters said " Odds say you're due...."

 

[paullud]

How do you figure?...we need them more?....the government isn't doing the insuring...they are making the rules now.....the same profiteers are insuring us....

When you have the government stepping in it takes power away from the citizen because the citizen is trained to not react and let the government fix the problems. Then when citizens stop reacting and taking control businesses that can screw us over will because they can keep doing it until the lumbering government finally steps in. The government likes power and finding ways to prove how much we need them which is why we have completely ridiculous things like flammable warnings in things like matches and lighter fluid.

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[OntarioVanMan]

well duh....ALL governments like power....this country is no exception....you have leaders and followers....it is human nature....some in this country live in a fantasy world....that it is different then any other country...but humans are humans...

 

[davekc]

How do you figure?...we need them more?....the government isn't doing the insuring...they are making the rules now.....the same profiteers are insuring us....

And the government certainly profits from it. Who do you think is keeping those fines/penalty?
I do agree that one of the benefits of Obmacare is the pre-existing component and carriers can't just drop you. However, that could have been done without Obamacare.
Again though, just moving money around. People under the old system at times got dropped once they got sick. That is very true. Under the new plan, people with insurance get sick and find that they can't afford the 10k to 14k deductible.
So again, just like before, one doesn't have insurance.
Looking deeper, I wouldn't be shocked than when it is all said and done, you have more people without usable insurance than do.

 

[paullud]

well duh....ALL governments like power....this country is no exception....you have leaders and followers....it is human nature....some in this country live in a fantasy world....that it is different then any other country...but humans are humans...

That is exactly my point. The government is creating more followers instead of inspiring people to become leaders. These nanny state laws only produce more people that sit back, wait, and leech off of the system. This becomes a vicious cycle of the government having to intervene more because people no longer take control.

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[OntarioVanMan]

And the government certainly profits from it. Who do you think is keeping those fines/penalty?
I do agree that one of the benefits of Obmacare is the pre-existing component and carriers can't just drop you. However, that could have been done without Obamacare.
Again though, just moving money around. People under the old system at times got dropped once they got sick. That is very true. Under the new plan, people with insurance get sick and find that they can't afford the 10k to 14k deductible.
So again, just like before, one doesn't have insurance.
Looking deeper, I wouldn't be shocked than when it is all said and done, you have more people without usable insurance than do.

exactly.....it is going to be a boon doogle forever they way it is set-up now...
If they wanted more insured people they could have just income subsidized more people and made the old system more user friendly..since they (theFeds) felt a need to interfere.

I am thinking some of the people pushing for this are looking north and NOT knowing how it works.....The Canadian care is NOT a federal program like Gr. Britain and other countries....it is managed by the provinces, for the provinces....each province responsible for its own program and what it can afford...if you don't want to wait and you have the resources, you have a choice to go private and get it done immediately.