Haz-mat regulations

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Good luck with making them change anything. If it's got an X in the appropriate column on the BOL, it is going to stay that way.
I've had it happen maybe half a dozen times. Some of these shippers, 99% of their stuff is HAZMAT, so when a less-than-1001 pound shipment goes out it's rarity, and the SOP of marking the HAZMAT column doesn't apply. But the FMSCA rules are very specific with regard to shipper's responsibilities, and if the paperwork isn't right, I'll refuse the load. The Shipper's Certificate on the papers will take some of the heat off the driver if thigs aren't correct, but not enough to accept a load with incorrect paperwork.

One time I had to pick up one drum of some chemical, and the proper shipping name was misspelled according to the hazmat book. I could not get them to change it even after showing them in the book. They started getting nasty...
If it was just a typo and it didn't spell a different actual chemical, and as long as the correct UN# was there, it wouldn't be a problem, especially with that Shipper Certificate down there. But I'd point to the Certificate and say, "Are you sure you want to go with this?" ;)
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
This is really interesting.

I won't write all of this but here is the short story. I am responsible for that shipment on the road. If I have an accident and my paper work is sloppy, than I will end up with the problems, not the shipper, not the carrier. Even though the shipper will get p*ssed off, and I have had a couple of them get really mad, I don't move the truck with a Hazmat load on it unless their paper work is perfect and they sign my contact info.

I can't afford the cost of messing up and you can't either. Just the clean up of one Hazmat spill near where my truck vacations cost the driver and carrier more than a million dollars and that was just the clean up company's work, the state charge the carrier somethign like $125k for tying up the emerguency vehicles and closing down the road and the City of Detroit has yet billed the carrier for the extra work from what went down in the drains.
 

Crazynuff

Veteran Expediter
O.K. , here's what you need to know . How to Comply with Federal HM Regulations - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration . Take particular note of the training requirements . A hazmat endorsement alone does NOT qualify you to transport hazmat . Additional training by the carrier is required . This training must be renewed every 3 years and you are required to carry a card showing you have current training . I have been asked for this card during inspections .
 

redytrk

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
My saftey department is top of the line, can't say for sure about my friends, but during orientation the CV/SPR's were not required to sit thru the Haz-mat part. There must be a reason for this. Is there a bite and if so how bad?

The only reason I can think of for a safety department to not require C/SPR`s to attend Hazmat is that the do not plan to put HM on a van. For this reason they may not require a HM endorsement on a CDL. Unfortunately not all dispatchers know or care. After all its not their butts that will fry for the illegal load.

I can`t see any where that Flattop or his friend have the endorsement's.
 

BigRed32771

Expert Expediter
Flattop;

He is also correct that some materials are considered "Hazardous" when in quantities greater 1,000 pounds by themselves, or in combination with other hazardous materials, and these loads would require placcards. Keep in mind that some materials, such as Class A and B Explosives, Radioactive and some of the Toxic (by inhalation), are placcardable, regardless of quantity.

HotFr8Recruiter
aka John Mueller, CDS
Safety Director - Premium Transportation Logistics

Just a note regarding radioactive:
There is an odd category of radioactive called "DOT Exempt." It is an amount or radioactivity level that falls below the DOT's definition of what constitutes radioactive and above what the regulatory agency for nuclear power, etc. (sorry for the senior moment, can't remember the specific agency name...DOE maybe? NRA? Can't remember...) calls radioactive. It seems the two agencies don't agree on what constitutes regulatable or covered materials. It is a small difference, but it exists.

When transporting DOT Exempt Radmat there is a form or form letter that should accompany the paperwork which explains that the material is Exempt from DOT Hazmat. The trick is usually trying to explain this to a dispatcher who wants to do a hazmat checkout and doesn't understand that though technically radioactive the shipper hasn't done hazmat paperwork on it. I had to hand the phone to the shipper to explain it to a dispatcher the one time I ran into this type of material.

Doug Simmons
FDCC - DR4284 (a.k.a. "the John Deer truck)
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
Study for and obtain the HazMat endorsement. Why jeopardize your driving career or the safety of the motoring public?
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Study for and obtain the HazMat endorsement. Why jeopardize your driving career or the safety of the motoring public?
Exactly. Or at least study for it. There are some shippers who require a HAZMAT endorsement for all shipments, HAZMAT or not. Many shippers (and some authorities) respect a HAZMAT endorsement on a CDL, as it shows, to at lease some degree, that you actually do know your аss from a hole in the ground and that you take your job seriously, especially those in a cargo van (I've been told that by two shippers and one border guard).

Some carriers don't require a CDL at all. Some require a CDL, but don't require a HAZMAT endorsement. Van and Sprinter drivers who opt for a Class C CDL will have to have an endorsement of some kind, either HAZMAT or Passenger, since there is no such thing as an endorsement-free Class C CDL. You have to take the CDL written test to get it, but a Class C CDL is essentially a Class D operator license with an endorsement. Some van drivers merely opt for a Class B license free of endorsements.

Regardless of whether you don't have a HAZMAT endorsement, it would behoove you to become familiar with HAZMAT, which is why I push that people at the very least study the HAZMAT section in the CDL manual and take the practice tests. This is your job, and you need to know how to do it, even if you never haul HAZMAT.

Panther, for example, like many other carriers, won't put placardable HAZMAT on a van. They won't do this because van drivers are mostly morons who don't know their job, the rules and regulations, and when they're placarded they have to act and think like an actual professional driver (or so the theory goes). The turnover rate for van drivers is obscene, so there's little reason to waste time in teaching van drivers the rules regarding HAZMAT, logging and scaling, for just a handful of loads a year. It's easier just to put all placardable HAZMAT on a truck that already logs and scales every day.

CSR's, load planners, Safety and dispatchers all try to ensure that placardable HAZMAT not be booked on cargo vans in these cases. However, have you ever received a Load Offer that turned out to be be very different with regards to number of pieces and weight? I've had it happen several times where, say, the load offer was 1-piece, 500 pounds, and I get to the shipper and it's 1 skid of 4 drums of 2000 pounds of placardable HAZMAT. I'd be willing to bet that a lot of van drivers would just load and go and never give it a second thought, that, or think about it, but wouldn't want to give up the loaded miles and they'd run it anyway figuring nothing would happen. <snort>

I've also been recently dispatched to pick up what turned out to be 600 pounds of PG I aluminum powder, which is a nasty 4.3 Dangerous When Wet, always-placardable HAZMAT material, that can explode if it gets a little bit wet (used to make flash powder, fireworks, pyrotechnics, cherry bombs, stun grenades etc.), and I had the shipper insisting that if it was less than 1001 pounds it was fine to ship in an unplacarded cargo van. Table 1 from the HAZMAT book says otherwise. If you don't know your job, you may be ignorant or stupid enough to just load 'er up and drive off.

Even if you don't have a HAZMAT endorsement and/or you never haul HAZMAT, you'd better know the difference between HAZMAT and not-HAZMAT. That's your job.
 
Last edited:

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver


BTW: the "old saying" [mis]quoted is: "People who live in glass houses shouldn't THROW STONES." The 'naked' part exists only in your mind.
 
Last edited:

aileron

Expert Expediter
As it is apparently permissible to post portions of private msgs, I hereby offer the entire msg, in self defense [and truthfulness rather than deception]:

Please forgive the comments I made to you while under the impression that you knew and accepted the risks of posting in a public forum [kudos to ridicule & everything in between] and that you are prepared to defend whichever comments may be challenged, and that as an adult, you don't require the assistance of the Mods to do so.
O, and also for calling you a childish and petulant little weasel, too, you childish and petulant little weasel.

BTW: the "old saying" [mis]quoted is: "People who live in glass houses shouldn't THROW STONES." The 'naked' part exists only in your mind.
Cheri,
Could you please stop this? This has nothing to do with Hazmat regulations.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Nor did the posting of a bit of a PM, but you didn't object to that, did you?
I have the right to defend myself against false accusations, misleading portrayals, selective quotes, etc, and when they appear, I will.
Would you do otherwise?
 

Crazynuff

Veteran Expediter
This is really interesting.

I won't write all of this but here is the short story. I am responsible for that shipment on the road. If I have an accident and my paper work is sloppy, than I will end up with the problems, not the shipper, not the carrier. Even though the shipper will get p*ssed off, and I have had a couple of them get really mad, I don't move the truck with a Hazmat load on it unless their paper work is perfect and they sign my contact info.

I can't afford the cost of messing up and you can't either. Just the clean up of one Hazmat spill near where my truck vacations cost the driver and carrier more than a million dollars and that was just the clean up company's work, the state charge the carrier somethign like $125k for tying up the emerguency vehicles and closing down the road and the City of Detroit has yet billed the carrier for the extra work from what went down in the drains.
Wednesday morning a FedEx Freight set of doubles was in a wreck on I-75 in Cincinatti and spilled 3 50 gallons of paint that took 15 hours for hazmat crews to clean up . Anybody care to guess the cost of that cleanup ?
Paint spill creates I-75 mess | Kentucky Enquirer | nky.com
 

x06col

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Army
Flattop: either you are deliberately antagonizing me, or you're too stupid to be driving a CMV.
Which is it? :confused:

Hey Missie, you becomming the cumrudgin??? Maybe ya need a good weekend at the lake???
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Nor did the posting of a bit of a PM, but you didn't object to that, did you?
For the record, I was going to respond to his posting of a snippet of a PM, because it was clearly done out of spite to incite. Posting a PM or a private e-mail to a public form is a long standing breach of Netiquette, not to mention just plain rude. But I decided not to respond to it, as any response would be redundant, since the posting of the snippet already clearly shows the maturity level of the poster, that of being grossly immature. I'll leave it at that and will take the rest of it to a PM, in the hopes that what I say in the PM doesn't end up being published here.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Wednesday morning a FedEx Freight set of doubles was in a wreck on I-75 in Cincinatti and spilled 3 50 gallons of paint that took 15 hours for hazmat crews to clean up . Anybody care to guess the cost of that cleanup ?
Paint spill creates I-75 mess | Kentucky Enquirer | nky.com
Depends on it if was actual HAZMAT, which it didn't appear to be. Everything they did to clean it up, including the cleanup crew wearing casual work shoes and not the standard boots of a HAZMAT team, indicates a non-HAZMAT water-based paint.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
I apologize to everyone for taking what ought to be a private disagreement public. In my defense, I made every effort to resolve it in private first, but got nowhere.
When I am accused of something, I'm not going to ignore it - call it a personality defect, but it's how I feel.
And for the record: I stand by my words. IMO, anyone who hauls hazmat without knowing whether it's even legal to do so, is too stupid to drive a CMV.

 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
And for the record: I stand by my words. IMO, anyone who hauls hazmat without knowing whether it's even legal to do so, is too stupid to drive a CMV.
That's why they make vans and Sprinters.
 
Top