Harvard - Only the Best and Brightest Go There

[davekc]

This is getting muddled up a bit. Layout shooter stated:



You said " of course they do " but . . .
The article you posted was about Students receiving public funds in the form of Federal Loans and Grants, not Harvard receiving public Funds directly.
The mere title of the article is an incorrect conclusion:

"Harvard Got $5.6M in Federal Student Loans and Grants--Despite Its $31.7B Tax-Exempt Endowment"

The article admits that students received those amounts in Loans and Grants and leaves the gullible reader to assume that Harvard received those amounts.

Implying that Harvard receives all of these proceeds indirectly through the students is incorrect. Loans and Grants are awarded for tuition and/or costs associated with school which can include books, supplies, rent, etc.
The portion allocated to tuition can vary in each individual case.
For example: Mom and Dad may pay 80% of Juniors tuition. Junior uses the loan to pay the remaining 20% plus buy books, pizza, condoms and pay rent.

You can make a leap and say some portion of the 5.6M ended up in Harvard's accounts; however, with that reasoning you could also say that the local eateries and landlords receive public funds.

This is always the problem with seeking and posting biased news sources instead of utilizing facts.

It says "Harvard got 5.6 in Federal loans and grants". We don't know nor does the article state what the total of loans were that were taken out. Two different things. Total of the loans and grants isn't relevant to money received by the college.
As in....what Harvard actually recieved. Total in loans & grants that were received by students could have been 20 million. Havard's cut was 5.6m. That 5.6m didn't go for pizza and condoms unless the school paid for them.
It doesn't say, Students have taken out 5.6 in loans and grants for Harvard.

 

[Humble2drive]

It says "Harvard got 5.6 in Federal loans and grants".

Quick! Look up! Something just flew over your head.

It is quite obvious what the title says. No need to repeat it.
The title is WRONG. That was my point.
Read the first paragraph of your biased article:

. . .tuition and fees derived from federal grants and student loans that U.S. taxpayers provided to Harvard undergraduates.

Repeat: provided to Harvard UNDERGRADUATES.
That means that STUDENTS received the money.
Schools don't get the loans and grants, Students do.

Then again in paragraph 3:

Harvard undergraduates received $4,093,140 in federal Pell Grants and $1,467,017 in federal student loans.

Then again in paragraph 4:

This total of $5,560,157 in grants and loans that federal taxpayers provided to Harvard undergraduates

Is it becoming clear? The money was not given to Harvard. Havard did not get a cut.As I stated earlier, it was money awarded to STUDENTS to help with the many costs of their education to INCLUDE tuition. Not tuition only.

The writer is jumping to an incorrect conclusion because his focus and attention is on his end goal of smearing the liberal institution and not on accuracy.

The 5.6M IS THE TOTAL that the STUDENTS received.

The portion actually spent on tuition is not provided and they (the STUDENTS) can spend a portion on pizza, condoms, beer, Ipad, etc.

It doesn't say, Students have taken out 5.6 in loans and grants for Harvard.

Yes it does. I think we covered that.

Note: I used capital letters to highlight the specific points that I was attempting to make, they in no way express anger.

 

[davekc]

I stand corrected. I was just refering to the title. Compared to the article it is somewhat deceiving. Forgive me, I am allowed to be slow on a Monday.

 

[Turtle]

Wow, and I thought I could be pedantic. Yes, the students get the money, but if you think Harvard doesn't get a cut of that when the students enroll at inflated tuition prices, well think again.

 

[davekc]

Wow, and I thought I could be pedantic. Yes, the students get the money, but if you think Harvard doesn't get a cut of that when the students enroll at inflated tuition prices, well think again.

No doubt about it. I think all colleges are likely in that category.

 

[Humble2drive]

No doubt about it. I think all colleges are likely in that category.

I so know what you are thinking right now.

Dave’s Commercial Truck Driving Career College

Enroll today! Have your CDL in 6 weeks!

No upfront money needed! Financial aid available.

47 percenters welcome!

When life gives you lemons . . .

 

[Turtle]

Absolutely. College tuition has risen is direct proportion not to inflation or other costs, but to the rapid influx of federal dollars into the student loan and grants arena. The more federal dollars there are available, the faster and higher the tuition rises. You get a real keen insight on that living in a small college town, lemme tell ya. College and universities work the system like crazy, sometimes doing the paperwork for the students. It's no different than those commercial on TV where they'll sell you a super-duper 4-chair scooter and they'll even file the Medicaid paperwork for you. "Get this new glucometer and we'll take care of the paperwork for you, and you'll receive your supplies every month in the mail - for free!" Same with Obama phones and a whole host of federal giveaways, students loans and grants are no different. There's money out there, and everybody wants it.

 

[LDB]

In 1950-1953 when my dad went to medical school and the government wasn't involved it cost $648 per year for tuition, library fee, student activity fee, student health fee etc. for medical school, not college, medical school. Room and board was on top of that but that's $648 per year in total to go to medical school. In the interim the federal government got involved and now it's well over a quarter million dollars to get the same degree or at least 100 times as much.

 

[jaminjim]

Harvard's $130-million deficit in 2011 | Harvard Magazine Jan-Feb 2012

Revenue.

For fiscal 2011, revenue increased 1 percent to $3.78 billion, from $3.74 billion in the prior year. Sources included: a $66-million (nearly 11 percent) increase in federally sponsored research support, to $686 million; a $29-million gain in student tuition and fees—after taking into account increases in financial aid; and the 12 percent increase in current-use giving (to $277 million). In the aggregate, those factors increased revenue by $124 million—nearly offsetting the $129-million decline (nearly 10 percent) in the endowment distribution for operating purposes. Harvard’s revenue sources continue to shift significantly (see table above).

Such shifts raise fundamental questions about University finances, as highlighted by President Drew Faust’s summary in the report: “Changing financial realities require an ongoing examination of our funding model with its reliance on government support, endowment returns, and tuition—all of which are expected to be either declining or constrained in the years ahead.” Hence the emphasis in the financial overview, prepared by Shore and University treasurer James F. Rothenberg, on “pursuing a number of strategies that will help to reduce ongoing costs and enable high-priority reinvestment in the years ahead”—and on pursuing additional, more diversified, sources of revenue.

Nope, no federal support for Harvard.

 

[davekc]

Nice find. I like your article better as it provides better figures from which to draw conclusions.
No doubt though, colleges are big business.

 

[Humble2drive]

Absolutely. College tuition has risen is direct proportion not to inflation or other costs, but to the rapid influx of federal dollars into the student loan and grants arena. The more federal dollars there are available, the faster and higher the tuition rises.

From Jaminjim's link:

For fiscal 2011, revenue increased 1 percent to $3.78 billion, from $3.74 billion in the prior year. Sources included: a $66-million (nearly 11 percent) increase in federally sponsored research support, to $686 million; a $29-million gain in student tuition and fees—after taking into account increases in financial aid; and the 12 percent increase in current-use giving (to $277 million).

Does the highlighted sentence directly support your conclusion or am I seeing things?

 

[jaminjim]

I'm curious what the Feds paid $686,000,000.00 for. And to just one of our institutions of higher learning.

 

[Humble2drive]

I'm curious what the Feds paid $686,000,000.00 for. And to just one of our institutions of higher learning.

The funds referred to in the article go specifically to the research projects being done at Harvard. These are the same grants that individuals, small businesses and hospitals can receive.
They cannot be used as general revenue to pay for any operating costs outside of that research.
Using grant money for purposes outside the specific projects for which they are offered can result in disciplinary action, as well a ceasing of funding.

The research is supposed to produce information that is useful and productive for our Nation in order to be awarded.
Funny thing is, much of the research out of Harvard is regarding economics. Maybe they should have researched how they could have avoided a deficit before it happened.

 

[Pilgrim]

And how does this relate to a BDSM club at Harvard?
Harvard does not provide loans.
You are quoting the average loan debt for "for profit" colleges. This is irrelevant to Harvard and even more irrelevant to the story in your link.

Let me try to connect the dots for you. First of all, students at Harvard get financial aid from US Govt funds just like those that attend other colleges like IA State and the others mentioned. Secondly, the overall avg student loan debt is just under $27K - so I was about $2K off, assuming your 29K figure is correct.
Average student loan debt nears $27,000 - Oct. 18, 2012

Anyway, a majority of the irrelevant $29,000.00 amount will be paid back with interest. Wouldn't the future dollar amount of the portion of that figure which is defaulted on be more relevant?

No - the amount of student loans is over a TRILLION DOLLARS, and now exceeds credit card debt in the US. The default rate is 9.1% - do the math.

No. Why would there be a bailout?
For the Harvard MBA class of 2012, median base salaries were $125,000 and few had any debt.
If you are talking about a bailout for those "for profit" graduates that are in default on their loans? Why would you bail out someone who has already defaulted?

Do you understand what defaults and bailouts are? What happens when students borrow taxpayer dollars to go to college and then don't pay the money back? The govt bailout on this has been in the news for quite some time. For instance: Yes, There Will Be A Student Loan Bailout - BusinessWeek

Summary: students and colleges availing themselves of taxpayer dollars have no business sponsoring or participating in sexual perversion clubs. If the kids want to do this on their own time and expense - fine. Also, the institutions should not be recognizing or sanctioning stuff like this.