Graduating Soon Need Advice

tallcal101 · Feb 7, 2006

My experience with this go's to the van line business.
To be true to the letter of the IRS version of what constitutes an independant contractor,it's about 120 pages.
I have one,and if I were to do a contract with drivers,it would be this one.Otherwise,a contract is not worth the paper it's written on.
Try to take a contract to court that does not meet the IRS compliance,and you may have the IRS knocking on your door.I've seen it happen.A verbal agreement is legal as long as a reasonable amount of time has passed without problems,or misunderstandings,and can be substantiated by either party.
Once again,I'm of the firm believe that this business is not brain surgery,and is based on big trust factor,with or without a contract.
I carry workmans accident insurance for all drivers.I pay for it so I know it's there.I've had two driver hurt themselves on the job,and the insurance payed wages(75%)and medical.
I refuse to hire people that I even think I will get into sceaming match's with.If we can't communicate,or if the relationship wares thin,as many do after time,let's just move on.
I guess once I have a reason to have a contract,I will,but until then,I'm staying with the program that seems to be working for the last 6 years.

davekc · Feb 7, 2006

I can only guess that a 120 page driver contract is needed in California. The lease with Fedex isn't even that long. I have seen ones that are a fraction of that size reviewed in an IRS audit and no problems were involved.
I think the key is to have it prepared by a competent transportation attorney.
I can tell you that a contract prepared in FL or TN is not even close to 120 pages regardless of the attorney.
If it is that long, then that would be all the more reason to have it.
Verbal agreements only have a value if both parties agree on what was actually discussed. Anything outside of that is open to interpretation.
Doing everything verbally for six years without a problem seems more like luck than common sense.
I am finding it difficult to follow your logic.

Davekc
owner
21 years
PantherII
EO moderator

tallcal101 · Feb 7, 2006

I would suggest to you that the IRS is not California based.
However,we are burdened with more red ink then most States as a result of being in the top 20 largest GNP's in the World.A little different then your State.
IRS dictates that independant contractors(drivers,non employee status) much share in the risk of operating the truck.So,if one wish's to be a benevolant owner,and not change the program as the wind blow's(as most in this business do)and stay within IRS reg's,the proper agreement needs to specify,in detail,the responsibilites of each party,and must show the risk each is taking,in terms of real dollar committments.
Trust me,I researched this,and have been in transportation long before the likes of Panther and the rest burst on the scene.These companies love to live on the margins,and their recruiting methods are shaky at best,as well as their IRS advise.
Drivers are either employee's or not,no middle ground.Take your chance's with a hay seed attorney's contract(plenty of them in your neck o' the woods),or risk the results.
I think I will continue to listen to the transportation attorneys who advice Unigroup companies(United and Mayflower)and their independant contrator/drivers.

x06col · Feb 7, 2006

Ya gotta understand Tall, that most of the "advisors" on this site pretty much have "one dimensional" views that they can draw from for giving advice. Meaning, most have been either a owner operator contracted to someone, or, graduated to being a owner of some trucks contracted to someone. They are able to utilize the things they have learned to make them successful in their small corner of the can of worms we call the trucking industry. Dont't get upset with their offerings, they are valid. For them. However, I am in agreement with you, hire adults, treat adults like adults and the world will be "Humdulah" (as the Arabs say) If they or you need more than that, let them set at home, or, let someone else have the heartburn.

davekc · Feb 7, 2006

Drivers are either employee's or not,no middle ground.Take your chance's with a hay seed attorney's contract(plenty of them in your neck o' the woods),or risk the results.
I think I will continue to listen to the transportation attorneys who advice Unigroup companies(United and Mayflower)and their independant contrator/drivers.
========================================================
I can't even imagine any of your listed groups advising you to operate without a contract. That would be pretty reckless advise.
Things are much different now than 20 years ago.
A "transportation attorney" telling you to operate without anything in writing? That is reckless, but funny.
I would agree...very one dimensional.

This reminds me of the all to often phrase,
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink"

I wish you well

Davekc
owner
21 years
PantherII
EO moderator

tallcal101 · Feb 8, 2006

No one is advising me to operate without a contract.
That is a personal choice.But,if I choose to utilize a contract,it will be the one I described,which meet's the letter of the law.
There is only one reason,in this little business of mine,to go to a contract,and it would to meet IRS compliance.Issuing 1099's is far from meeting compliance in and of itself.
If you would be interested in seeing the contract,let me know.120 page's was an exageration,I think it's about 30 or 40.
It's a bear,no doubt about it.

tallcal101 · Feb 8, 2006

My new word for the day is Humdulah.I like it.

davekc · Feb 8, 2006

>No one is advising me to operate without a contract.
>That is a personal choice.But,if I choose to utilize a
>contract,it will be the one I described,which meet's the
>letter of the law.
>There is only one reason,in this little business of mine,to
>go to a contract,and it would to meet IRS compliance.Issuing
>1099's is far from meeting compliance in and of itself.
>If you would be interested in seeing the contract,let me
>know.120 page's was an exageration,I think it's about 30 or
>40.
>It's a bear,no doubt about it.
========================================================
It would be a interesting read so send me a copy at your earliest convenience. I have no interest in using it, but it would be educational to see what has to be included or omitted while operating out of California.
My email is [email protected]

Davekc
owner
21 years
PantherII
EO moderator

tallcal101 · Feb 9, 2006

Not sure what the California thing is about,as this contract was wriiten by a transportaton attorney in St Louis,where UNIGROUP is headquarted,closer to you then me.It's not used by every United/Mayflower agent,as it is up to each agent to uitilize their own contract.This one happens to be the one my agency use's.We run 42 United household goods vans nationwide.
.

Tennesseahawk · Feb 9, 2006

Responding to the original post, I have a couple of sites for you to explore, if you decide to go OTR. Most trucking companies have their issues, only some far outweigh the benefits.

www.truck.net

This can give you general info about what to expect on the road, in general. Also gives a breakdown on particular companies.

thetruckersreport.com (notice no www)

Good info on trucking, and GREAT info on companies to stay away from.

Both will guide you to companies that have decent packages for newbie cdl holders. Believe it or not, Schnieder is one of the better ones.

davekc · Feb 9, 2006

>Not sure what the California thing is about,as this contract
>was wriiten by a transportaton attorney in St Louis,where
>UNIGROUP is headquarted,closer to you then me.It's not used
>by every United/Mayflower agent,as it is up to each agent to
>uitilize their own contract.This one happens to be the one
>my agency use's.We run 42 United household goods vans
>nationwide.
=============================================
Thanks. That was clearly the answer I thought I would get.

Davekc
owner
21 years
PantherII
EO moderator

ATeam · Feb 10, 2006

>No one is advising me to operate without a contract.
>That is a personal choice.But,if I choose to utilize a
>contract,it will be the one I described,which meet's the
>letter of the law.
>There is only one reason,in this little business of mine,to
>go to a contract,and it would to meet IRS compliance.Issuing
>1099's is far from meeting compliance in and of itself.
>If you would be interested in seeing the contract,let me
>know.120 page's was an exageration,I think it's about 30 or
>40.
>It's a bear,no doubt about it.

Finally! A fleet owner who is willing to share a copy of his or her contract (or in this case, the contract similar to what he would use if he used one). It sounds like a worthy document. I'd be most interested in seeing a copy simply out of curiosity and for my own education. If you are willing to share it with me, I can send you my address, FedEx account number and cash (you specify the amount) to cover your office staff and copying costs. By the way, Diane and have no plans to ever become fleet owners. We're one-truck expediters partly because we like the simple life.