Government Run Health Care

davekc · Apr 28, 2014

Medicare is dwindling because we took a bunch of money from it to start Ocare. Things like a wasted website, pajama boy and the list goes on. Folks that are thinking they are getting "free" Medicaid from the state are in for a surprise. When the Feds cut that money to the states in a couple of years, states will be forced to seize assets to pay those bills. Actually, that has already started.
If you have the resources, probably better off with concierge medicine. Everything else will be pretty much factory medicine with you having little say if it actually costs anything.

AMonger · Apr 28, 2014

davekc said:
A lot of people like the idea of a single payer system, and in a perfect world it has the possibility of working. In the US, not a chance. One can't point to any government program and call it a success.
You are correct in how the military medical operates. That is likely what you would get with any single payer system.

As Ronald Reagan said, socialism can only work in two places: Heaven, where they don't need it, and Hell, where they already have it.

Socialized medicine has worked NOWHERE. The only time it even appears to work is when the books are cooked to make it look like it does.

A truly free market would fix every problem and deliver the best health care system possible.

layoutshooter · Apr 28, 2014

A truly free market would fix every problem and deliver the best health care system possible.

We have not had a free market in health care for decades. That is a could part of the reason that prices have gone out of control. Government has been messing with it forever and with each "fix", things get worse.

The ONLY way to fix health care is to remove the government interference. I would outlaw insurance on top of that.

AMonger · Apr 28, 2014

layoutshooter said:
We have not had a free market in health care for decades. That is a could part of the reason that prices have gone out of control. Government has been messing with it forever and with each "fix", things get worse.

That's what gets me about ppl who decry the free market because of what they perceive as what the free market did to prices. "Greed," they say. No system in which you can't buy a product or service across state lines can be considered free market.

The ONLY way to fix health care is to remove the government interference. I would outlaw insurance on top of that.

Insurance has been a primary reason (alongside runaway litigiousness and government interference) for skyrocketing prices. Though part of me decries the interference this would be, we'd likely be better off with only catastrophic coverage & co-op medicine.

layoutshooter · Apr 28, 2014

People also seem to mix up the cost of insurance with the cost of health care. They are NOT the same thing. As stated, the law suits have had a big impact on prices, although I believe that federal interference and controls account for a larger percentage of the excessive costs.

davekc · Apr 28, 2014

As it sits right now, it is more of a control and profit issue. Open markets across state lines and the prices will drop. Just like expediting, technology is slowly creeping in with regards to hospital costs.
A simple same hernia operation can be 20k at one hospital and 50k for the same thing in the same town. As that information becomes available, justification for prices will have to adjust.

layoutshooter · Apr 28, 2014

davekc said:
As it sits right now, it is more of a control and profit issue. Open markets across state lines and the prices will drop. Just like expediting, technology is slowly creeping in with regards to hospital costs.
A simple same hernia operation can be 20k at one hospital and 50k for the same thing in the same town. As that information becomes available, justification for prices will have to adjust.

What you are speaking of is an insurance problem, caused by the government. Anyone can cross state lines and buy health care. Just go to a DR and pay for it. The feds have yet to put an end to that.

davekc · Apr 28, 2014

Not really. Most are set up via networks unless you pay extra to have that coverage. If I bought a policy in NY, it is worthless here in TN without out of state coverage. Same as if you have TNcare. Can't use that if you leave the state. But you are correct if a cash paying customer.

layoutshooter · Apr 28, 2014

davekc said:
Not really. Most are set up via networks unless you pay extra to have that coverage. If I bought a policy in NY, it is worthless here in TN without out of state coverage. Same as if you have TNcare. Can't use that if you leave the state. But you are correct if a cash paying customer.

That is what I was trying to explain. There is a HUGH difference between insurance and health care.

Under my wife's insurance she can use any DR, anywhere in the country, at network prices. She can use any DR at all, but would have to pay out more than a network DR. We just can't buy insurance across state lines. If I want to, or can, pay cash, I can do anything I want, at least for now. That will change as time goes on. The more government involvement the less freedom, fewer choices, lower quality and higher costs.

aristotle · Apr 28, 2014

There is so much to learn from the study of distinct subcultures. A study linked below indicates the average life expectancy for Old Order Amish is 72 years. The Amish enjoy such longevity according to the study "in spite of little or no medical or preventative care and eating a high-fat diet..."

Imagine living 72 years without being compelled to seek medical or preventative care. They pretty much opt out of modern medicine by choice.

http://gerontology.umaryland.edu/documents/Advances_in_Aging_fall031.pdf

layoutshooter · Apr 28, 2014

Most of the Old Amish also work hard, in a physical manner. They eat far less processed foods as well.

Then there is my Dad, he is only 91.

That has NOTHING to do with the fact that the United States government does NOT honor it's contracts with it's citizens. It also has nothing to do with the fact that it has proven itself to not be able to handle the health care needs of a relatively small subset of citizens in a reasonable manner. When you take into account that they are botched up every other socialist program they have forced on us it's hard to believe that people in this country STILL turn to government to solve THEIR problems.

I personally have few problems with the care I receive at the VA. I just wonder, how many of those who want government medicine would be comfortable with not being able to see their DR "on demand"? It can take up to 30 days to get an appointment with one. IF you need to see a DR "today", like if you get the flu or say have a gout attack, you don't get to see your primary care DR, unless they just happen to have a opening. You get to go to the emergicare center and wait and wait and wait, sometimes all day, to be seen.

I also wonder, just how many would happy knowing that, when the government messes up, and does not provide the care as promised, that there is a chance, based on known performance, that they would let you die rather than admit to the problems, let alone fix them.

davekc · Apr 28, 2014

It is ok. Those wanting those services perceive it as "free".

cheri1122 · Apr 30, 2014

aristotle said:
There is so much to learn from the study of distinct subcultures. A study linked below indicates the average life expectancy for Old Order Amish is 72 years. The Amish enjoy such longevity according to the study "in spite of little or no medical or preventative care and eating a high-fat diet..."

Imagine living 72 years without being compelled to seek medical or preventative care. They pretty much opt out of modern medicine by choice.

http://gerontology.umaryland.edu/documents/Advances_in_Aging_fall031.pdf

Because they also opt out of alcohol, tobacco, most processed foods, and a sedentary lifestyle, the need for modern medicine is very small. It would be wonderful if the rest of us could live that way, no doubt. My sister and her husband are doing it, as are many others - but it's an impossible dream for truck drivers. We can manage all except the food, and growing what you eat is what I miss most.