Goliath: Life and Loathing In Greater Israel

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
The "Author" of this article has a History of writing Fantasy Stories
Well paperclip, let's see if we can narrow that down a bit:

Can you name and link to a couple of them ?

And you JUMP all over this article like it really means something...........or has some sort of Importance to it.
Which article are you referring to there Carnac ? ... there's several articles linked in the thread ... only one of them is actually written by Max, (another may have been co-written)

I'll let you in on a little secret - that thought-projection thing that you think you have going on ... well, that's just a figment if'n ya get my drift ...

IOW Moonbeam: Ya actually hafta be specific ... in order to specific ...

I know that seems like a very complex concept to grasp, but it really ain't ...
 

Brisco

Expert Expediter
Which article are you referring to there Carnac ? ... there's several articles linked in the thread ... only one of them is actually written by Max, (another may have been co-written)

I'll let you in on a little secret - that thought-projection thing that you think you have going on ... well, that's just a figment if'n ya get my drift ...

IOW Moonbeam: Ya actually hafta be specific ... in order to specific ...

I know that seems like a very complex concept to grasp, but it really ain't ...

This might Help Ya Out a Little....................

HappyHappyHappy.png


:D :p :D

I'm done in this one............Go Ahead............Have your last word..........:rolleyes:
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
This might Help Ya Out a Little....................
And this might help you out a bit:

"... technically, factually accurate ..."

Now, which of the three words above are you actually having trouble understanding ?

(It actually seems like quite the endorsement)

I'm done in this one............
You were done in this one before you even started ... you just didn't have the perception and good sense to recognize and understand it ...
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Make sure ya read the comments to the article ;)

Doesn't look it was all that well received ...

Basically just more attempted smearage by another Ziobot hack ...

Oh ... you didn't know that above piece was written by an Israeli national (Rosie Gray) ?

... who, interestingly enough, is/was a student of ... (wait for it) ... Eric Alterman ...

Here's a mildly humorous take on Buzzfeed Ben and his "ace sleuth" and cub reporter Rosie Gray:

Buzzfeed Editor-in-Chief Ben Smith, speaking at the Columbia School of Journalism, disclosed that he “hated” advocacy journalism instead preferring the theoretical (arguably mythical) objective journalism. A posture where reporters are to present themselves as detached and free from personal bias.

Start at 57:30:

ERIC HIPPEAU: What about the fine line between either investigative journalism, or journalism period, and advocacy?


BEN SMITH: Um, yeah, I hate advocacy. Partly because I think, you know, telling people to be outraged about something is the least useful thing in the world.


This is a particularly odd claim given that at the same time Smith was lecturing students at Columbia he was defending one of his most controversial reporters, Rosie Gray, over a piece where she presented a heavily biased and inaccurate story on Max Blumenthal, his book, and his family.

Some corrections have already been made to the piece including a semi-admission of poor research by Gray and Smith for posting an easily disproved claim that Max Blumenthal’s father, Sidney Blumenthal, was behind a controversial photo of Barack Obama. A mere Google search would have shown it to be an inaccurate claim but Gray and Smith seemed to not have the time or inclination to check their work.

This is not Gray’s first foray into hacky reporting. She wrote an extremely speculative article accusing one of the Boston Bombers of being involved in a triple murder with little to no evidence. She also wrote a hit piece on Mint Press News that heavily suggested the publication was an Iranian front organization, little to no evidence again. Rosie Gray is, at the least, a less than diligent reporter. All the more reason Smith should have been vigilant with research when Gray started writing about a journalist with whom she had had a public feud with.

Most editors who strive for “objectivity” would not have put Gray on this story.

But the problems go deeper than Gray. Buzzfeed has continually been under suspicion for engaging in very poor journalism. In another case a Buzzfeed reporter had allowed an anonymous government source to lie about the detention of a filmmaker at LAX. That controversy did lead to a more thorough correction than has currently been made to the Blumenthal piece. Buzzfeed’s association with the Koch Brothers also became a matter of interest given Buzzfeed’s willingness to bend the rules of journalism and the intense interest the Koch Brothers have shown in expanding their media influence.

So the question remains – how can Ben Smith “hate advocacy journalism” but be willing to promote smear merchants like Gray? Is bias completely unrelated to advocacy in Ben Smith’s mind? Surely writing an inaccurate negative story on someone you’ve been fighting with is closer to advocacy journalism than objective journalism.

Video at link below
Be sure to scope out the comments on this one too:

Buzzfeed's Ben Smith Says He 'Hates Advocacy Journalism' While Defending Smear On Max Blumenthal | FDL News Desk

With Daddy Blumenthal and son Max, there is much that these two have info on that many of us have no privilege to. So there is some more ammo to understand what is going on.
Well, ok ... how exactly did that inform and clarify your understanding of "what is going on" ?

Any insights you'd care to share ?
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Whoa ... this just in:

BREAKING NEWS:"Obama calls Max Blumenthal an anti-Semite"!

BdqZTWCCUAAp79r.jpg:large
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Max Blumenthal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia age 36 , son of Sidney Blumenthal

Clinton Adviser Sid Blumenthal's New Cause: His Son's Anti-Israel Book

With Daddy Blumenthal and son Max, there is much that these two have info on that many of us have no privilege to. So there is some more ammo to understand what is going on.
Here's another interesting perspective from a knowledgeable source (bold emphasis mine):
DERSHOWITZ WARNS CLINTONS: BLUMENTHAL'S A PROBLEM FOR 2016
by Joel B. Pollack

Noted defense lawyer, scholar, and pro-Israel advocate Alan Dershowitz has warned the Clintons that they will need to distance themselves from Sid Blumenthal unless he stops defending his son Max's anti-Israel book. The book, Goliath: Life and Loathing in Greater Israel, compares Israel to Nazi Germany. In recent years, Max Blumenthal has made a career of criticizing Israel and attacking its American Jewish supporters.

The elder Blumenthal reacted harshly to a negative review of his son's book by Eric Alterman of Media Matters for America, writing at the Nation, an institution of the American left. According to Alana Goodman of the Washington Free Beacon, Sid Blumenthal is waging an email campaign to fight criticism of Goliath. Buzzfeed's Rosie Gray covered the story Thursday, calling it Sid Blumenthal's new "cause."

Blumenthal is best known for defending President Bill Clinton during the impeachment scandal, and for his frequent attacks on critical journalists. He sued Matt Drudge for defamation, a case Blumenthal later settled. Blumenthal also advised Hillary Clinton during her 2008 campaign. Afterwards, President Barack Obama's first White House Chief of Staff, Rahm Emanuel, reportedly barred Blumenthal from a job in the State Department.

Prof. Dershowitz has long been a friend and supporter of the Clintons, and backed Hillary Clinton in the 2008 primary before Obama became the party's nominee, whereupon he gave his support to Obama. On Friday, Dershowitz told Breitbart News that Sid Blumenthal's vociferous advocacy for his son's book could damage Hillary Clinton's widely anticipated run for her party's nomination for president in 2016:

Max Blumenthal is well outside the acceptable range of rhetoric about Israel. His constant comparisons between Nazi Germany and the Jewish state establish him as an extremist bigot whose greatest appeal is to antisemites and others who apply a double standard to the Jewish state. Any political candidate who would associate himself or herself with such views would be unacceptable to Americans. In addition to being extremist in his anti-Israel views, Blumenthal is also vehemently anti-American. I have long known his father and have worked with him. But even understanding how a father would want to identify with a son, no decent person should ever support the views expressed by Max Blumenthal. I would sincerely hope that Sid, while continuing to love his son, would completely dissociate himself from his son's bigotry. And I ask decent people to ask themselves what they would do if they had a son who espoused views akin to those expressed by the KKK, Hamas and other antisemites. I would hope they would do the right thing and dissociate themselves from such views.
In light of the long association between the Clintons and Sid Blumenthal, I hope that the Clintons ask Sid to expressly disassociate himself from his son's views--and if he refuses to, that they no longer work with him on any matters.

Dershowitz Warns Clintons: Blumenthal's a Problem for 2016
The first paragraph of the Dershowitz quote aptly describes Max Blumenthal, and offers insight to why he would appeal to the America haters and Hamas huggers who fortunately make up only a small but noisy minority of the general public. The Palestinians and their Islamic terrorist allies have a formidable network of propaganda organizations in the US, and certainly know how to manipulate the MSM. The results of their efforts have been quite effective, and it boggles the mind that anyone with a civilized upbringing would sympathize with any organization that brainwashes young men and women into wearing explosive vests into public areas to purposely kill innocent civilians - adults and children alike.


 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Here's another interesting perspective from a knowledgeable source (bold emphasis mine):

Max Blumenthal is well outside the acceptable range of rhetoric about Israel. His constant comparisons between Nazi Germany and the Jewish state establish him as an extremist bigot whose greatest appeal is to antisemites and others who apply a double standard to the Jewish state.
ROTFLMAO ... thugs of a feather, flock together ...

Hey ... you can go with The Dersh - a most disgusting and repugnant authoritarian and fascist thug if ever there was one - I think I'll stick with these folks:

TO THE EDITORS OF NEW YORK TIMES:

Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.


The current visit of Menachem Begin, leader of this party, to the United States is obviously calculated to give the impression of American support for his party in the coming Israeli elections, and to cement political ties with conservative Zionist elements in the United States. Several Americans of national repute have lent their names to welcome his visit. It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughout the world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin's political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents.


Before irreparable damage is done by way of financial contributions, public manifestations in Begin's behalf, and the creation in Palestine of the impression that a large segment of America supports Fascist elements in Israel, the American public must be informed as to the record and objectives of Mr. Begin and his movement.


The public avowals of Begin's party are no guide whatever to its actual character. Today they speak of freedom, democracy and anti-imperialism, whereas until recently they openly preached the doctrine of the Fascist state. It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character; from its past actions we can judge what it may be expected to do in the future.

Attack on Arab Village

A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants (240 men, women, and children) and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and the Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses and the general havoc at Deir Yassin.


The Deir Yassin incident exemplifies the character and actions of the Freedom Party.


Within the Jewish community they have preached an admixture of ultranationalism, religious mysticism, and racial superiority. Like other Fascist parties they have been used to break strikes, and have themselves pressed for the destruction of free trade unions. In their stead they have proposed corporate unions on the Italian Fascist model.


During the last years of sporadic anti-British violence, the IZL and Stern groups inaugurated a reign of terror in the Palestine Jewish community. Teachers were beaten up for speaking against them, adults were shot for not letting their children join them. By gangster methods, beatings, window-smashing, and wide-spread robberies, the terrorists intimidated the population and exacted a heavy tribute.


The people of the Freedom Party have had no part in the constructive achievements in Palestine. They have reclaimed no land, built no settlements, and only detracted from the Jewish defense activity. Their much-publicized immigration endeavors were minute, and devoted mainly to bringing in Fascist compatriots.


Discrepancies Seen


The discrepancies between the bold claims now being made by Begin and his party, and their record of past performance in Palestine bear the imprint of no ordinary political party. This is the unmistakable stamp of a Fascist party for whom terrorism (against Jews, Arabs, and British alike), and misrepresentation are means, and a "Leader State" is the goal.


In the light of the foregoing considerations, it is imperative that the truth about Mr. Begin and his movement be made known in this country. It is all the more tragic that the top leadership of American Zionism has refused to campaign against Begin's efforts, or even to expose to its own constituents the dangers to Israel from support to Begin.

The undersigned therefore take this means of publicly presenting a few salient facts concerning Begin and his party; and of urging all concerned not to support this latest manifestation of fascism.

ISIDORE ABRAMOWITZ, HANNAH ARENDT, ABRAHAM BRICK, RABBI JESSURUN CARDOZO, ALBERT EINSTEIN, HERMAN EISEN, M.D., HAYIM FINEMAN, M. GALLEN, M.D., H.H. HARRIS, ZELIG S. HARRIS, SIDNEY HOOK, FRED KARUSH, BRURIA KAUFMAN, IRMA L. LINDHEIM, NACHMAN MAISEL, SEYMOUR MELMAN, MYER D. MENDELSON, M.D., HARRY M. OSLINSKY, SAMUEL PITLICK, FRITZ ROHRLICH, LOUIS P. ROCKER, RUTH SAGIS, ITZHAK SANKOWSKY, I.J. SHOENBERG, SAMUEL SHUMAN, M. SINGER, IRMA WOLFE, STEFAN WOLFE.

New York, Dec. 2, 1948
Albert Einstein Letter To The New York Times - December 4 1948

Ya might wanna learn some history there Ace ...
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Pilgrim,

I just love it when you post ... primarily because you can't resist using logical fallacies and overblown rhetoric to accompany them ...

I sometimes wonder if you are even aware that you are doing it ...

The overblown rhetoric isn't really all that much of an issue ... the problem is that it's based on fallacies.

The first paragraph of the Dershowitz quote aptly describes Max Blumenthal,
Ummm ... just exactly how familiar are you with Mr. Blumenthal the Younger ...

You've read a lot of what he's written/published have you ?

I ask because to offer such an opinion as above would require some degree of knowledge of, and familiarity with, Mr. Blumenthal's work.

Providing of course you actually wanted anyone that is capable of thinking critically to consider your views on the matter credible.

and offers insight to why he would appeal to the America haters and Hamas huggers who fortunately make up only a small but noisy minority of the general public.
A rather pathetic effort at stereotyping and sleazeball smear mongering ... but not entirely unexpected ... ;)

The Palestinians and their Islamic terrorist allies have a formidable network of propaganda organizations in the US, and certainly know how to manipulate the MSM.
Oh really ?

Then name them.

Of course, if it takes you anywhere near as long as it has to come up with your explanation on that "invading-Iraq-was-defending-the-Constitution" thing - which still hasn't occurred - I may have slipped the mortal coil by the time you can manage a reply.

But that's fine - your unwillingness to respond is reply enough in and of itself.

The results of their efforts have been quite effective,
Can you provide any specific examples of this ?

and it boggles the mind that anyone with a civilized upbringing would sympathize with any organization that brainwashes young men and women into wearing explosive vests into public areas to purposely kill innocent civilians - adults and children alike.
Logical fallacy: conflation

You conflating sympathy for the Palestinian people with sympathy for a political/military organization.

As anyone who is not a total dunderhead can plainly see, that isn't quite the same thing.

Add to that you willfully ignore the conduct of the Israelis in a roughly analogous regard ... probably mostly because you are largely ignorant on the matter and therefore don't know any better ...

So you got a little cherry-picking and selection bias going on there as well.

Now ... remind me again: who is it that you think is brainwashed ?
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Here's another little historical tidbit you might want to become aware of - since the premises and conclusions laid out in it are as valid today as the day it was published (March 5, 1919). Make sure you scope out the signatories.

If anything, one might say that it was completely and utterly prescient of what was to come and eventually came.

PROTEST TO WILSON AGAINST ZIONIST STATE

Representative Jews Ask Him to Present It to the Peace Conference.

Special to The New York Times.​

PHILADELPHIA, March 4.--Acting on behalf of a committee of thirty-one prominent men, Congressman Kahn of California, in Washington, today presented to President Wilson a petition on behalf of the Zionist organization for the consideration of the Peace Conference. President Wilson acknowledged the petition in a few words and agreed to have the matter put before the conference after his arrival in Paris.

The text of the petition follows:

As a future form of government for Palestine will undoubtedly be considered by the approaching Peace Conference, we, the undersigned citizens of the United States, unite in this statement, setting forth our objection to the organization of a Jewish State in Palestine as proposed by the Zionist Societies in this country and Europe and to the segregation of the Jews as a nationalistic unit in any country. We feel that in so doing we are voicing the opinion of the majority of American Jews born in this country and of those foreign-born who have lived here long enough to thoroughly assimilate American political and social conditions. The American Zionists represent, according to the most recent statistics available, only a small proportion of the Jews living in this country, about 150,000 out of 3,500,000. (American Jewish Year Book, 1918, Philadelphia.)

At the outset, we wish to indicate our entire sympathy with the efforts of Zionists which aim to secure for Jews at present living in lands of oppression a refuge in Palestine or elsewhere, where they may freely develop their capabilities and carry on their activities as free citizens.

Reject "National Home" Idea.

But we raise our voices in warning and protest against the demand of the Zionists for the reorganisation of the Jews as a national unit to whom, now or in the future, territorial sovereignty in Palestine shall be committed. This demand not only misinterprets the trend in the history of the Jews, who ceased to be a nation 2000 years ago, but involves the limitation and possible annulment of the larger claims of Jews for full citizenship and human rights in all lands in which these rights are not yet seecure. For the very reason that the new era upon which the world is entering aims to establish government everywhere on principles of true democracy we reject the Zionistic project of a "national home for the Jewish people in Palestine."

Zionism arose as a result of intolerable conditions under which Jews have been forced to live in Russia and Rumania. But it is evident that for the Jewish population of these countries, variously estimated at from 6,000,000 to 10,000,000, Palestine can become no homeland. Even with the improvement of neglected conditions of this country, its limited area can offer no solution. The Jewish question in Russia and Rumania can be settled only within those countries by the grant of full rights of citizenship to Jews.

We are all the more opposed to the Zionists, because they, themselves, distinctly repudiate the solely ameliorative program. They demand and hail with delight the "Balfour Declaration" to establish "a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine," i.e, a home not merely for Jews living in countries in which they are oppressed, but for Jews universally. No Jew, wherever he may live, can consider himself free from the implications of such a grant.

The willingness of Jews interested in the welfare of their [religious] brethren to aid in redeeming Palestine from the blight of centuries of Turkish misrule is no acceptance of the Zionist project to segregate th Jews as a political unit and to re-institute a section of such a political unit in Palestine or elsewhere.

At the present juncture in the world's affairs, when lands that have hitherto been subjected to foreign domination are to be recognized as free and independent States, we rejoice in the avowed proposal of the Peace Congress to put into practical application the fundamental principles of democracy That principle which asserts equal rights for all citizens of a State irrespective of creed or ethnic descent, should be applied in such a manner as to exclude segregation of any kind, be it nationalistic or other. Such segregation must inevitably create differences among the sections of the population of a country. Any such plan of segregation is necessarily reactionary in its tendency, undemocratic in spirit and totally contrary to the practices of free government, especially as these are exemplified by our own country. We therefore strongly urge the abandonment of such a basis for the reorganization of any state.

Against "Political Segregation."

Against such a political segregation of the Jews in Palestine or elsewhere we object.

Because the Jews are dedicated, heart and soul, to the welfare of the countries in which they dwell under free conditions. All Jews repudiate every suspicion of a double allegiance, but to our minds it is necessarily implied in, and cannot by any logic be eliminated from, the establishment of a sovereign state for the Jews in Palestine.

By the large part taken by them in the great war the Jews have once and for all shattered the base aspersions of the anti-Semites which charged them with being aliens in every land, incapable of true patriotism and prompted only by sinister and self-seeking motives. Moreover, it is safe to assume that the overwhelming bulk of the Jews of America, England, France, Italy, Holland, Switzerland, and the other lands of freedom have no thought whatever of surrendering their citizenship in these lands in order to resort to a "Jewish homeland in Palestine." As a rule those who favor such a restoration advocate it not for themselves, but for others. Those who act thus, and yet insist on their patriotic attachment to the countries of which they are citizens, are self-deceived in their profession of Zionism and under the spell of an emotional romanticism or of a religious sentiment fostered through centuries of gloom.

We also object to political segregation of Jews for those who take their Zionistic professions seriously as referring not to others, but to themselves, granted that the establishment of a sovereign Jewish State in Palestine would lead many to emigrate to that land, the political conditions of the millions who would be unable to migrate for generations to come, if ever, would be made far more precarious. Rumania - despite the pledges of the Berlin treaty - has legally branded her Jews as aliens, though many are descended from families settled in that country longer than the present Rumanian Government has existed. The establishment of a Jewish state will manifestly serve the more violent rulers of that and other lands as a new justification for additional repressive legislation. The multitudes who remain would be subject to worse perils, if possible, even though the few who escape might prosper in Palestine.

We object to the political segregation also of those who might succeed in establishing themselves in Palestine. The proposition involves dangers which, it is manifest, have not had the serious consideration of those who are so zealous in its advocacy. These dangers are adverted to in a most kindly spirit of warning by Sir George Adam Smith, who is generally acknowledged to be the greatest authority in the world on everything connected with Palestine either past or present.

In a recent publication, "Syria and the Holy Land," he points out that there is absolutely no fixity to the boundaries of Palestine. These have varied greatly in the course of the centuries. The claims to various sections of this undefined territory would unquestionably evoke bitter controversies. "It is not true," says Sir George, "that Palestine is the national home of the Jewish people, and of no other people." "It is not correct to call its non-Jewish inhabitants 'Arabs' or to say that they have left no image of their spirit and made no history except in the Great Mosque." "Nor can we evade the fact that Christian communities have been as long in possession of their portion of this land as ever the Jews were." "These are legitimate questions," he says, "stirred up by the claims of Zionism, but the Zionists have not yet fully faced them." To subject the Jews to the possible recurrence of such bitter and sanguinary conflicts, which would be inevitable would be a crime against the triumphs of their whole past history and against the lofty and world embracing visions of their great prophets and leaders.

Though these grave difficulties be met, still we protest against the political segregation of the Jews and the re-establishment in Palestine of a distinctively Jewish State as utterly opposed to the principles of democracy which it is the avowed purpose of the world's Peace Conference to establish.

Contrary to Democratic Ideals.

Whether the Jews be regarded as a "race" or as a "religion" it is contrary to the democratic principles for which the world war was waged to found a nation on either or both of these bases. America, England, France, Italy, Switzerland, and all the most advanced nations of the world are composed of representatives of many races and religions. Their glory lies in the freedom of conscience and worship, in the liberty of thought and custom which binds the followers of many faiths and varied civilizations in the common bonds of political union. A Jewish State involves fundamental limitations as to race and religion, else the term "Jewish" means nothing. To unite Church and State, in any form, as under the old Jewish hierarchy, would be a leap backward of 2,000 years.

"The rights of other creeds and races will be respected under Jewish domiance," is the assurance of Zionism. But the keynotes of democracy are neither condescension nor tolerance but justice and equality. All this applies with special force to a country like Palestine. That land is filled with associations sacred to the followers of three great religions and as a result of migrating movements of many centuries contains an extraordinary number of different ethnic groups far out of proportion to the small extent of the country itself. Such a condition points clearly to a reorganisation of Palestine on the broadest possible basis.

We object to the political segregation of the Jews because it is an error to assume that the bond uniting them is of a national character. They are bound by two factors:

First, the bond of common religious beliefs and aspirations; and secondly, the bond of common traditions, customs and experiences, largely, alas of common trials and sufferings. Nothing in their present status suggests they form in any real sense a separate nationalistic unit.

The reorganisation of Palestine, as far as it affects the Jews, is but part of a far larger issue, namely the constructive endeavor to secure the emancipation of the Jews in all the lands in which they dwell. This movement, inaugurated in the eighteenth century and advancing with steady progress through the western lands, was checked by such reactionary tendencies as caused the expulsion of the Poles from Eastern Prussia and the massacre of Armenians in Turkey. As directed against Jews, these tendencies crystallized into a political movement called ant-Semitism, which had its rise in Germany. Its virulence spread (especially) throughout Eastern Europe and led to the pogroms of Russia, with their dire consequences.

To guard against such evils in the future we urge that the great constructive movement, so sadly interrupted, be reinstituted, and that efficient measures be taken to insure the protection of the law and the full rights of citizenship to Jews in every land. If the basis of the reorganization of Governments is henceforth to be democratic, it cannot be contemplated to exclude any group of people from the enjoyment of full rights.

As to the future of Palestine it is our fervent hope that what was once a "promised land" for the Jews may become a "land of promise" for all races and creeds, safeguarded by the League of Nations which, it is expected, will be one of the fruits of the Peace Conference to whose deliberations the world now looks forward so anxiously and so full of hope. We ask that Palestine be constituted as a free and independent state, to be governed under a democratic form of government, recognising no distinctions of creed or race or ethnic descent, and with adequate power to protect the country against oppression of any kind. We do not wish to see Palestine, either now or at any time in the future, organised as a Jewish State.

[The full text of the document was published 5 March 1919 in The NY Times under the headline,"Protest to 'Wilson against Zionist State: Representative Jews Ask Him to Present it to the Peace Conferences." There were 31 signatures affixed to the document in the NY Times. The memorandum handed to Wilson was signed by over 300 prominent Jewish Americans. What follows is the 31 plus a partial list of the 300]

Congressman Julius Kahn, R-Ca.
U.S. Ambassador to Turkey, Henry Morgenthau
Simon Rosendale, Attny.General , State of NY, founder of the Jewish Publication Society.
Simon Wolf, U.S. Consul in Egypt
Max Senior, 1st Pres. National Conference of Jewish Charities
Lee M. Friedman, attny, Boston Ma.
Judge Seligman J. Strauss, Wilkes-Barre Pa.
Dr. Morris Jastrow Jr., Professor of Semitic Languages, U.of Penn. & Librarian of the University.
Rabbi Henry Berkowitz, 1st Sec. of the Central Conference of American Rabbis (CCAR - Reform Mvmt.)
Rabbi David Philipson, founder and past pres. CCAR
Edward Max Baker, Pres. Cleveland Stock Exchange
Mayor L.H. Kempner, Galveston, Tx
Jesse Isidor Strauss, Pres. Macy's, Ambassador to France
E. Robert A. Seligman, Prof. Political Economy and Finance, Columbia U.
Jacob H. Hollander, Prof. Economics Johns Hopkins U., Special Commissioner to Dom.Rep.(TR Roos.)
Adolph Simon Ochs, publisher The New York Times
Lessing Rosenthal, esq. trustee - Brookings Inst., Johns Hopkins U.
Abraham Kochland, Boston Ma.
Jacob R. Morse, esq. Boston Ma.
Daniel Peixotto Hays esq., head of the NYC Municipal Civil Service Commission, member exec. committee UAHC, President of YMHA
Louis Stern, Pres. Council of Jewish Federations and Welfare Funds, Pres. National Jewish Welfare Board
Rabbi William Rosenau, Pres. CCAR, member board of governors HUC
Rabbi Willaim Landsberg, Rochester, NY
Judge M.C. Shloss, SF, Ca.
Dr. Julius Rosenstein, Mt.Zion Hspt. SF. Ca
Isiah Wolf Hellman, founder Union Trust Co., LA, Ca.
Judge Josiah Cohen, Pittsburgh Pa.
Judge Horace Stern, Chief Justice of Supreme Court, Pennsylvania.
Julius Walter Freiberg, Past President UAHC
Rabbi Abraham Simon, organizer of Nat. Conf. of Christians and Jews, past pres CCAR, founder Synagogue Council of America.
Isaac Wolfe Bernheim, Distillery Owner, Louisville Kentucky and noted philanthropist

Other signatories:

Rabbi Tobias Schanfarber, Kehilath Ansche Mayrin Cong.;
Rabbi Felix Levy, Temple Emanuel, NY;
Abraham Cohen, PhD. Prof. Mathematics, Johns Hopkins U.;
Rabbi Richard M. Stern, Temple Israel, New Rochelle NY;
Rabbi Max Landsberg, Cong. B'rith Kodesh, Rochester;
Rabbi Eli Mayer, PhD, Temple Beth Emeth, Albany NY;
Rabbi Max Schlesinger, emeritus, Temple Beth Emeth, Albany, NY;
Charles Stern, dep. attny General, NYS;
Rabbi Samuel H. Goldenson, Temple Rodef Shalom, Pittsburgh, Pa.;
Rabbi David Lefkowitz, Cong. B'nai Yeshurin, Dayton Ohio;
Rabbi Aaron Weinstein, Fort Wayne Indiana;
Rabbi Louis Witt, Cong. B'nai Israel, Little Rock Ark.;
Leon L. Solomon, M.D. U. of Louisville Medical School;
Rabbi Morris Newfield, Temple Emanu-el, Birmingham, Ala.;
Rabbi Louis Bernstein, Temple Adath Joseph St. Joseph Mo.;
Rabbi William Friedan, Temple Emanuel, Denver Colo.;
Lea Goodman, commisioner of public utilities, Memphis Tenn;
M.H. Rosenthal, director American Red Cross;
Rabbi William Gineshrevber, Cong. Children of Israel, Memphis;
Mrs. Henry Morgenthau, NY;
Abraham S. Isaacs, professor of semitic languages NYU;
Dr. K. Kohler, pres. HUC, Cincinatti;
Henry Englander, professor HUC;
Ralph W. Mach, board of governors, HUC;
Leo Wise, editor, American Israelite;
Joseph Raushoff, MD prof. of surgery U. of Cincinatti Medical School;
G.J. Brown, vp Cincinatti Chamber of Commerce;
Eli Winkler, vp board of governors HUC;
Leopold Roth, Roth Shoe Company;
Henry Berkowitz, DD chancellor of Jewish Chautauqua Soc. Philadelphia;
Louis Leftwich, prof. medical jurisprudence, Vanderbilt University, Nashville;
PROTEST TO WILSON AGAINST ZIONIST STATE - Representative Jews Ask Him to Present It to the Peace Conference. Reject "National Home" Idea. Against "Political Segregation." Contrary to Democratic Ideals. - View Article - NYTimes.com
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Meet the man who some hailed as the spiritual conscience of the State of Israel, Yeshayahu_Leibowitz, zekher tzadik livrakha ...

Yeshayahu Leibowitz, 91, Iconoclastic Israeli Thinker
By JOEL GREENBERG
Published: August 19, 1994

Yeshayahu Leibowitz, an iconoclastic philosopher, scientist and social critic who outraged Israelis with lacerating commentary on their country's political, military and religious practices, died today in Jerusalem. He was 91.

Active until his last day, Mr. Leibowitz died in his sleep of unknown causes, acquaintances said.

A grim visionary to his disciples and a provocateur to his opponents, Mr. Leibowitz kept up a relentless critique of Israel's policies in the occupied territories and of its political and religious culture. His remarks infuriated many listeners and often set off heated debate about the values of Israeli society.

President Ezer Weizman hailed him today as "one of the greatest figures in the life of the Jewish people and the State of Israel in recent generations," adding that he was "a spiritual conscience for many in Israel."

Aviezer Ravitzky, a professor of Jewish thought at the Hebrew University and an associate of Mr. Leibowitz, said, "He was the raging prophet, confronting society with both moral and social courage, sometimes smashing truths, but forcing people to reconsider their world and everything they considered self-evident."

Rabin Threatened Boycott

A religious thinker and biochemist with doctorates in philosophy and medicine, Mr. Leibowitz turned down Israel's most prestigious award, the Israel Prize, last year, after Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin said he would boycott the ceremony. Mr. Leibowitz said he had decided to forgo the honor because of the public furor it had caused, and because he did not want to embarrass Mr. Rabin.

A Zionist and an Orthodox Jew, Mr. Leibowitz railed at what he considered abuses that plagued Israeli political and religious life.

Soon after Israel captured the West Bank and Gaza Strip in the 1967 Arab-Israeli war, Mr. Leibowitz began warning that the occupation of the territories would turn Israel into an agent of repression, whose citizens would be employed in growing numbers to police the Palestinians. Israel had to "liberate itself from this curse of dominating another people," he said, arguing that prolonged Israeli rule over the Palestinians would "bring about a catastrophe for the Jewish people as a whole."

He supported Israeli Army resisters who refused to serve in the territories, and he warned that soldiers in the occupied areas risked becoming "Judeo-Nazis." Israeli undercover units that tracked down and sometimes killed Palestinian fugitives there were no different from gunmen of the militant Islamic group Hamas, he asserted.

Mr. Leibowitz warned darkly of a possible civil war in Israel over the future of the occupied territories and of a danger that the country would become a "fascist state" that would imprison political dissidents like himself in concentration camps.

For Church-State Separation

A staunch believer in the separation of state from religion, he argued that the blend of religion and politics in Israel corrupted the faith. He condemned the veneration of Jewish shrines and rituals as tokens of good luck, labeling the Western Wall, a popular pilgrimage site, "a religious disco."

Born in Riga, Latvia, in 1903, Mr. Leibowitz studied chemistry and philosophy in Berlin and medicine in Basel, Switzerland, before emigrating to Palestine in 1934. He taught at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem for nearly six decades, lecturing in biochemistry, neurophysiology, philosophy and the history of science.

He was editor of the Encyclopedia Hebraica, and published 10 books in Hebrew on religion, ethics, philosophy, history and science. A volume of his work was published in English under the title "Judaism, Human Values and the Jewish State" by Harvard University Press in 1992.

He is survived by his wife, Greta; his sister, Nehama Leibowitz; four children, Yosef, Eliah, Mira and Yiska; 25 grandchildren, and several great-grandchildren.
Yeshayahu Leibowitz, 91, Iconoclastic Israeli Thinker - NYTimes.com

So what do you think there Genius ... ya still wanna go with The Dersh™ ?
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Between The Dersh™ and this unhinged wingnut lunatic from the mebbe not-so-great state of Tejas, I'd say that Max is rackin' up morality/sanity points big time:

On House floor, Gohmert says Blumenthal is anti-Semitic Jew who'd welcome another Holocaust

Someone needs to convince ol' Louie to donate his brain to science so we can figure out what causes whatever it is he has going on ... and we don't need to wait until he ain't usin' it anymore ... wire him up and plug him in right now !

(But remember: Protect the asparagus !)

PS. Ol' Gomer is right about one thing (amazing) - The Dersh™ has managed to reduce himself to a non-entity on his side of the political aisle ... largely as a consequence of his own actions ...
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
For those that enjoy drooling and fawning over obnoxious, big-mouthed, bloviating glamour lawyers, meet the total epitome of an ***clown of the bar - a mentally deranged blowhard lawyer that doesn't actually believe in the rule of law, preferring instead the rule of men - at least when it comes to his favorite pet fetish:

Lawyer Against Law: Dershowitz tells Israelis pay no attention to international law

#idiotwithalawdegreeformerlyatmit
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
The courageous stand and defend ... while the cowardly run and hide to avoid engagement ...

Eric Alterman declines request to debate Max Blumenthal at Brooklyn College

Be sure to remember the above the next time someone trots out the tired old hasbara ploy of how "... it's so unfair ... only one side is represented ..."

The allegation is made not because the claimants actually want a debate and open discussion, the point is simply to cast an aspersion in an attempt to discredit the messenger ...
 
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