I was watching the news and saw a report where GM is planning on laying off 25,000 emplyees and closing some of their plants by 2008.As if fuel prices weren't enough to deal with, now there's going to be a lack of future automotive loads for us. Those autoworkers have themselves to blame for all this, them and their so called unions. Some of these workers are making $30 to $50 an hour milking the company out of any profits, not to mention the "Platinum Plan" healthcare that they went on strike for back in the mid 90's. That's why a lot of these companies are moving their manufaturing plants to places like Mexico, China, and where ever they can find cheap labor. When some idiot at a loading dock is giving me problems and acting nasty, I just smile in his or her face knowing that they are just one paycheck away from getting laid off. It sounds mean but it's true.
Going Out Of Business, Will Work For Food
- Thread starter Drluvv
- Start date
Broompilot
Veteran Expediter
Growing up in and around Detroit, it is sad. Now I live in NC and we are being hit in the furniture industry. Go to any Rooms to Go. Furniture is junk by the time you pay it off it is time to go back in get another of no payments and start the cycle over agian.
I have a Henderdon kitchen table, will last us a life time and look beautiful. I paid way more than I would have for crushed pulp and formica but the legs are not about to fall off in three years like our pulp wood kitchen table in the past did.
We as Americans want the cheapest, unlike your Grandparents who did not spend and disgard. The same goes for cars, my wifes last car looked as good the day I bought it. Sold it 94K miles on a 2dr Grand Prix GT. The problem had to pull the engine out three times to find a problem in the Transmission. Should a car be junk once it hits 100K?
Problem being at 34 K the Trans did the same thing and instead of replacing with a new part they put in a remanufactured part saving GM how much? I argued and showed the receipt showing exactly what they had replaced but it was still up to me at this point I now had 3K into a maybee 8K car.
Sold it, that will be my last new GM car. When they build unreliable cars how is a consumer suppost to take the brunt. As much as I want to BUY AMERICAN I cannot subsidize GM and there retirment plans. When they will learn to warranty there cars for 100k or more than I could reconsider. This was a $21K new in my estimate if you maintaine the car according to the or better than the owners manual it should not be needing these kinds of repairs. I had really counted on that car making it to be 6 years before its usefull life had gone bye. So whos to blame? Consumer? Auto Employees? Engineers? All?
I have a Henderdon kitchen table, will last us a life time and look beautiful. I paid way more than I would have for crushed pulp and formica but the legs are not about to fall off in three years like our pulp wood kitchen table in the past did.
We as Americans want the cheapest, unlike your Grandparents who did not spend and disgard. The same goes for cars, my wifes last car looked as good the day I bought it. Sold it 94K miles on a 2dr Grand Prix GT. The problem had to pull the engine out three times to find a problem in the Transmission. Should a car be junk once it hits 100K?
Problem being at 34 K the Trans did the same thing and instead of replacing with a new part they put in a remanufactured part saving GM how much? I argued and showed the receipt showing exactly what they had replaced but it was still up to me at this point I now had 3K into a maybee 8K car.
Sold it, that will be my last new GM car. When they build unreliable cars how is a consumer suppost to take the brunt. As much as I want to BUY AMERICAN I cannot subsidize GM and there retirment plans. When they will learn to warranty there cars for 100k or more than I could reconsider. This was a $21K new in my estimate if you maintaine the car according to the or better than the owners manual it should not be needing these kinds of repairs. I had really counted on that car making it to be 6 years before its usefull life had gone bye. So whos to blame? Consumer? Auto Employees? Engineers? All?
Ever since American auto's went front wheel drive and had computers thrown in them, they've become cheap pieces of junk after a few years. Gone are the days when your grandfather(granted he's still alive) can had you his keys and say "sonny that car is yours". By the time that vehicle is paid off, your parents are throwing you the keys as punishment. I feel for those soon to be unemployed auto workers, but lets face it, not only did they demaned a lot of money, but what they were building was grade A crap. So many people are to blame for this GM situation, but the way I see it is there's now gonna be a trickle down affect. Affecting the steel workers supplying the metals, the tire manufactures, companies that made the different electronics, and other parts, and then us the drivers.
$50 an hour for putting a nut on a bolt is crazy and so is thinking that a job like that would last for ever. Those unions should get with the workers tell them they should all take pay cuts in order to keep their jobs and not see them go over sea's. But that won't happen because those guys are to greedy and arrogant.
$50 an hour for putting a nut on a bolt is crazy and so is thinking that a job like that would last for ever. Those unions should get with the workers tell them they should all take pay cuts in order to keep their jobs and not see them go over sea's. But that won't happen because those guys are to greedy and arrogant.
The Gibster
Expert Expediter
We had heard at the GM plant in Shreveport that the consensus amongst the GM employees is that this is just a burp in GM's existence. And they're gearing up the union for a fight.
The whole plan seems to be that GM knows they can't make a profit with the enormus burden the union employee is placing on them. And trying to break the union as in the past years isn't the way to go.
However, there is apparently a clause wherein if GM files bankruptcy . . .the union has to go away, or desolve, or restructure. GM gets some kind of CHPTR 11 protection, and as it rebuilds it's finances, they get to then add newer or rebuild plants that were closed. GM wins all the way around.
So they all expect it to get worst (or so it would appear) before it gets better. And the union guys all expect another Enron cooked-books
senario to emerge. How do you look like bankruptcy one FY and suddenly have rebuild money the next?
Just fer what it's worth. Interesting story, but it was passed on by a GM union guy!
The Gibster
The whole plan seems to be that GM knows they can't make a profit with the enormus burden the union employee is placing on them. And trying to break the union as in the past years isn't the way to go.
However, there is apparently a clause wherein if GM files bankruptcy . . .the union has to go away, or desolve, or restructure. GM gets some kind of CHPTR 11 protection, and as it rebuilds it's finances, they get to then add newer or rebuild plants that were closed. GM wins all the way around.
So they all expect it to get worst (or so it would appear) before it gets better. And the union guys all expect another Enron cooked-books
senario to emerge. How do you look like bankruptcy one FY and suddenly have rebuild money the next?
Just fer what it's worth. Interesting story, but it was passed on by a GM union guy!
The Gibster
theoldprof
Veteran Expediter
Just remember, the union guys don't build crap. They build what the company tells them to build, and what the engineers designed. Also, have you noticed how much less the cars cost since GM and the others have been using parts imported from Mexico, China, etc.? I sure haven't.
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Broompilot
Veteran Expediter
Wrong Thoe, I grew up in that area, all have a hand in building these GREED GREED GREED and more GREED. They are getting what they deserve let anyone of these auto workers try to do what you or me do and they could not make it a week. THIS IS REAL WORK. What they do is fluffing off.
If they would contribute to the American Economy instead of taking more and more and more. than we all would be sharring but its Greed at $28.00 an hour plus benfits. Do you make a 40 hour work week @ $28.00 an hour plus all your benfits paid and a retirment program? I know I dont.
Even though I grew up there in Michigan I do not feel a bit sorry for any Auto Worker who makes close to $100K a year with NO INVESTMENT in anything other than time. Unions have killed our way of living work hard save a little, share a little and pass it on.
If they would contribute to the American Economy instead of taking more and more and more. than we all would be sharring but its Greed at $28.00 an hour plus benfits. Do you make a 40 hour work week @ $28.00 an hour plus all your benfits paid and a retirment program? I know I dont.
Even though I grew up there in Michigan I do not feel a bit sorry for any Auto Worker who makes close to $100K a year with NO INVESTMENT in anything other than time. Unions have killed our way of living work hard save a little, share a little and pass it on.
Former brother in law was/is at GM plant. In the 80's he took me for an extended tour of the plant. We walked through and it took over 3 hours to walk through. It was very interesting. Also interesting was hearing about the "offline" jobs and all the employees desire to get them.
The offline jobs are mounting tires on rims or putting steering wheels together or similar jobs. They get a list at the beginning of the shift telling them what to produce. They make them and put them on hooks or conveyors in the order listed. The system then transports them in order and as needed to the line workers. When they complete the list they are finished for the day. He said some of them won't even stop for the toilet and finish in about 4-4.5 hours. They then go home and collect their 8 hours pay. I'm sure they never produce a less than perfect part in their hurry to finish and collect pay at home. Yeah, right.
In their day the unions were ok and needed. They have long since gone beyond making change to make things bearable and fair. Their only contribution now is to insure prices are artificially high due to labor costs and to insure jobs are lost to foreign sources.
Leo
truck 4958
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
The offline jobs are mounting tires on rims or putting steering wheels together or similar jobs. They get a list at the beginning of the shift telling them what to produce. They make them and put them on hooks or conveyors in the order listed. The system then transports them in order and as needed to the line workers. When they complete the list they are finished for the day. He said some of them won't even stop for the toilet and finish in about 4-4.5 hours. They then go home and collect their 8 hours pay. I'm sure they never produce a less than perfect part in their hurry to finish and collect pay at home. Yeah, right.
In their day the unions were ok and needed. They have long since gone beyond making change to make things bearable and fair. Their only contribution now is to insure prices are artificially high due to labor costs and to insure jobs are lost to foreign sources.
Leo
truck 4958
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
I'm glad to see that we're all on the same side and know the TRUE meaning of what hard work is. I like what LDB said, and I too feel there was a time and place when unions were needed, but over the years they have gotten greedy and influenced the people they represent to become greedy too. these auto workers couldn't hack it in our business, hell the wouldn't last a month during the slow season without thinking about ending it all with a bullet. Its sad to say but its true.
Unions have an arrogant saying "We Don't Give Up What We've Gained", and thats just stupid. Unions don't care about the American worker, they just care about getting a percentage of that workers pay check every pay period. The UAW is just a middle man between the worker and his/her money, thats it, and in order for you to get a job or your money, you or it have to go through them.
I say screw the union worker, because in the long run they are screwing both you and I and they don't care. $1500 is tacked on to every GM Vehicle to cover what the union has bargained for. Last year GM spent 5.5 billion just on health care alone for their workers, that's crazy. You'd think all of these workers were dying of AIDS or Cancer with that kind of money spent but no that kind of money is spent just because the workers want the BEST healthcare even if they don't use it.
Screw them and I hope they all get what they deserve. Nothing.
Unions have an arrogant saying "We Don't Give Up What We've Gained", and thats just stupid. Unions don't care about the American worker, they just care about getting a percentage of that workers pay check every pay period. The UAW is just a middle man between the worker and his/her money, thats it, and in order for you to get a job or your money, you or it have to go through them.
I say screw the union worker, because in the long run they are screwing both you and I and they don't care. $1500 is tacked on to every GM Vehicle to cover what the union has bargained for. Last year GM spent 5.5 billion just on health care alone for their workers, that's crazy. You'd think all of these workers were dying of AIDS or Cancer with that kind of money spent but no that kind of money is spent just because the workers want the BEST healthcare even if they don't use it.
Screw them and I hope they all get what they deserve. Nothing.
Nobody mentioned that GMs Finance division GMAC has the worst track record in the industry. Last Year GMAC who takes direct withdrawls from my checking account for my car sent me an intent to report negative credit letter.
Which screwed up my credit , yet the payment they said they didnt get was clearly withdrawn on the same date as always. I had to sue them in court to get the matter resolved.
Then I got a letter from GMAC saying Dear valued customer, you have earned....Earned..what a joke! the opportunity to obtain our overpriced auto insurance.I still havent figured out what I'm going to send them back in the envelope.
Some of GMs cars are okay but I wont ever buy another GM product or service again. Last year we looked into getting a small cargo van a Chevy Astro lists at 25 k stripped down ? thats just crazy to me...I wish Toyota made a small cargo van.
I agree, times are changing and GM and the other car makers dont think they have to change and they deserve to go bankrupt.
dukesadog
Which screwed up my credit , yet the payment they said they didnt get was clearly withdrawn on the same date as always. I had to sue them in court to get the matter resolved.
Then I got a letter from GMAC saying Dear valued customer, you have earned....Earned..what a joke! the opportunity to obtain our overpriced auto insurance.I still havent figured out what I'm going to send them back in the envelope.
Some of GMs cars are okay but I wont ever buy another GM product or service again. Last year we looked into getting a small cargo van a Chevy Astro lists at 25 k stripped down ? thats just crazy to me...I wish Toyota made a small cargo van.
I agree, times are changing and GM and the other car makers dont think they have to change and they deserve to go bankrupt.
dukesadog
Never ceases to amaze me. As soon as a company starts poor-mouthin',everybody blames the working man.Union or not.When was the last time a CEO or any of his cronies came out and said,We're taking a pay cut to help the company stay viable. Instead of sending my kids to Harverd,Yale, etc.,I'll be sending them to a STATE collage. Instead of taking my million dollar bonus and FREE stock opions, corporate jet, the list goes on and on,I'm going to put all that money back into the company!!!!!!!!!! Come on guys.We're all in the same boat. Hard working,blue collar working men and women.Just trying to take care of our families. Never ceases to amaze me why the working men and women of this country alway's put each other down. Remember the saying from the show "Hill Street Blues"... Let's get THEM before they get US!!
Loose_Cannon47
Expert Expediter
Just remember, GM is a major player in the US economy...GM goes in the tank, and the ripple effect will take many, many others along with it..including a lot of expediting jobs...you may not haul automotive freight, but it's a good bet that many of the companies you haul to are supported by, or are supporters of, the auto industry...I'm not saying that the the unions or manufacturers are right, just that if ANY of the major players folds, the US economy may well be right behind them...and your livelyhood along with it...I sure don't want to go there...:-(
Loose
Loose
My dad works at Ford, and makes about $25 an hour. But watching him come home in the summer after being in a 120-130 degree shop for 12 hours, he looked like death warmed over. I can't seem to feel bad for GM paying out that money and insurance. Especially, when you got sports stars making 10 mil a year and ask for more so they can feed their family.
I cant help but see a lot of complaining about unions when it has been unions that have helped all wages to increase over the years. I agree the union docks can be a pain at times but so can ma and pa stops. We all complain about hours of service so we join ooida (the closest we have to a union out there as O.O.) I can't falt a union worker for wanting overtime after 40hrs ,we want more per mile or we could haul cheap freight to help the working man with lower prices. Ask a federal firefighter who works a 24hrs on 24hrs off for a 72hr work week with no overtime pay at a average of about $11.00 if he/she is overpayed. What im trying to say dont hammer the guy who is making us the freight because I personaly have never hauled freight from or to china or mexico. drive safe guys.
G
guest
Guest
When I heard about the layoffs, it occurred to me that a lot of those jobs will probably go to Mexico, which could create more expedited freight opportunities. I don't know, just a thought.
I agree that GM seems unable to build a good sedan, but they do have a nice full size truck and SUV lineup. I'll tell you who has a nice model lineup top to bottom and that is Nissan. They've really turned that company around in the last 3 or 4 years.
I agree that GM seems unable to build a good sedan, but they do have a nice full size truck and SUV lineup. I'll tell you who has a nice model lineup top to bottom and that is Nissan. They've really turned that company around in the last 3 or 4 years.
The problem with the unions is they have gone from an organization that brought wages up above the poverty level and created safe work environments to an organization that feeds from both sides of the trough while keeping all others away. When a guy is paid 8 hours wages for working 4.5 hours there's a problem. When a person is paid $42 an hour to sit on a stool working a stopwatch and noting times on a form there's a problem. When worker's earning 3 to 5 times minimum wage plus benefits that would make their congressman jealous are told they're underpaid and believe it and go on strike there's a problem. Unions = problem. Unfortunately that's the status quo and the days of unions = good are long gone.
Leo
truck 4958
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
Leo
truck 4958
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
In the July issue of Smart Money magazine there is an excellent 5 page article entitled "What went Wrong With GM".
In a nutshell it shows GM having 5 decades of coddling to the unions. They presently have $165 Billion in future pension and health care benefits but just $17 Billion in stock market value. Problems started in the 40's and 50's.
In a nutshell it shows GM having 5 decades of coddling to the unions. They presently have $165 Billion in future pension and health care benefits but just $17 Billion in stock market value. Problems started in the 40's and 50's.
I must agree with some of the "Union" posts. When you have nothing else to ask for at contract time,ask for more. In 1973 GM had a serious productivity problem,the employees had 3-4 bedroom homes,2 cars and a boat in the driveway and only worked 3-4 days per week.Heck, man, they were making more money than what they knew how to spend..Productivity went in the crapper along with GM cars and pickup trucks. so-it-goes
From what I understand, GM is actually consolidating their business and although many persons will lose their income,stock holders are losing their confidence in GM and that must be dealt with.Business is business and control had to be taken over their problems.
I don't see where expedited freight will change much But then,I refuse GM freight due to their hard attitude towards fuel surcharges so I really don't care much anyway..
I think we should focus on their retirement program and what these changes with United Airlines might open up for GM as you had mentioned.Retirement funds are going to see some changes that will hurt more than 25,000 people..
muleteam1
From what I understand, GM is actually consolidating their business and although many persons will lose their income,stock holders are losing their confidence in GM and that must be dealt with.Business is business and control had to be taken over their problems.
I don't see where expedited freight will change much But then,I refuse GM freight due to their hard attitude towards fuel surcharges so I really don't care much anyway..
I think we should focus on their retirement program and what these changes with United Airlines might open up for GM as you had mentioned.Retirement funds are going to see some changes that will hurt more than 25,000 people..
muleteam1
Well said! Boy it sure took a long time for someone to defend the working man. Remember about 1 year ago how someone cheered when CF went under, and how much work other drivers would get? What do we think we are: actually just contract workers who live for the phone to ring. BCO? what the hell is that?
Some of the horror stories at the plants beg the question, why did the dock worker get that way? It took the poor slob 25 yrs. to get on a forklift and off the line, and that same guy is probably the biggest defender of whichever slate got him there, and probably runs security at any hot meeting. I can handle him, but some of the characters we share the road and parking lots with- you fill in the _____.
Actually, analysts want GM to cut more, especially health ins. My Blue Care went up by almost $75 in a year.
Some of the horror stories at the plants beg the question, why did the dock worker get that way? It took the poor slob 25 yrs. to get on a forklift and off the line, and that same guy is probably the biggest defender of whichever slate got him there, and probably runs security at any hot meeting. I can handle him, but some of the characters we share the road and parking lots with- you fill in the _____.
Actually, analysts want GM to cut more, especially health ins. My Blue Care went up by almost $75 in a year.