getting serious doubts

[Broompilot]

What a shame to be in over your head. Must be a sick feeling as I recall around last Christmas. Any business takes capitol or should, I do not know the stastic but I would bet most companies with less than 30% invested in goes broke in less than one year.

The obvious, not enough committment. I have been blasted by some for buying a new truck and going into this with no expierence. This has been a successfull business for myself the homework has helped along with some luck.

I have plenty of business expierence just no trucking, reading these posts makes me happy, look who has business expierence here, the guys not complaining but making strong points and enough reserves to wiggle out of this slump. I can add my name to that list home work was done, back up plan put into place, reserves eatin up and have rebuilt them.

I personally will not run for free except to come home. If it comes down to that I will sell the truck (enough equipty) and chalk it up as a great learning expierence. Has not happened cheap freight that is but it is slow. There comes a time when one must say enough and it is not the same for any of us. I would like to think that if running freight for less than $100 a day on average hits thats a big warning sign.

 

[raceman]

I may be reading this all wrong and if so I apoligize. What I was saying in my POST above is that I have had many people with great looking trucks stand and tell me how bad it is. They are going broke and in that same breath tell me all they have turned down. My point was, if these folks are being offered work Versus no work and are in financial starights, it seems to me they would take the work.

Nothing is forever. Take the work that is being offered until things pick up. Isnt that better than loosing the truck? When times are slow I just do not see how folks can turn things down in one breath and say they are going broke in the next.

I do not feel anyone should tie the truck up or work free when you have other work but when you are saying the run you are on maybe your last because you can not make your truck payment, well nuff said.

By the way X06, I would run to NYC all week long. Where were you with that run when I was looking last time around?

Raceman
OTR O/O

 

[x06col]

You are preaching to the choir Raceman. When were you looking?? evidently not in the BIZ Opps at this site.

 

[LDB]

>On the other hand, I have a dedicated run
>going begging for someone to run it each week. RT Cinci -
>NYC. Takes 4 days pays the truck $2100. Everyone says
>NYC????? PEEEWWW, NOWAY. Four day week,excellent revenue,
>always busy. You are right, we both don't understand.

About 1300 miles a week but let's say 1500 for round numbers. Two hundred gallons of fuel for $500. Tolls for say $100. That leaves $1500 and out of that comes tires, oil changes etc. for let's say $250 leaving at least $1250 in the pocket. None of those numbers should be that high except maybe the tolls and having never been I could be low on that. Probably more realistically it's $700 expenses leaving $1400 in the pocket for 4 days work and with a truck good on mpg it's probably even better than that.

Someone really ambitious might find another 2 day dedicated run and put another few hundred in their pocket and still have a full day off plus home a few nights. Sheesh X06, no wonder you can't fill it expecting someone to work 4 days for $1400 in their pocket. Who'd want to wear their key out in the ignition for that?

In case anyone can't tell, I'm being very facetious. That's an excellent run it sounds like.

Leo
truck 4958

Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[x06col]

The interesting part is, there is always freight for the other days, but, don't want to run'em too hard. The dedicated is a tuff run.

 

[davekc]

Broompilot wrote;
What a shame to be in over your head. Must be a sick feeling as I recall around last Christmas. Any business takes capitol or should, I do not know the stastic but I would bet most companies with less than 30% invested in goes broke in less than one year.

Excellent post
You clearly identified one of the major problems of newcomers. Having prior business experience and cash reserves was certainly your savior. Even with that, you encountered some struggles, but overcame them. Many are lacking one or both of your attributes.

On a $100,000 truck purchase, you would need at a bare minumum, $45,000 to start.

I am arriving at this by assuming 20 percent down, startup costs,3 to 6 months of personal and business expenses.
Personal expenses will somewhat vary depending on whether your spouse works, house payments and expenses ect.
Since many have been experiencing many slow periods, I would lean towards the six months.

As mentioned, my personal preference is all cash when you can.

Very few start with a reasonable amount of reserves, and that is where they get in trouble.

On a related side note,
Since Bush signed the new banking bill, escape through bancruptcy won't be much of a option. When some of these folks fold or turn these trucks in, they will be faced with some very high costs.

Be careful and plan accordingly.

Davekc

 

[RobA]

>Just really getting the jitters- some of the “realities” of
>this job started to sink in about making enough $$ to run a
>van and raise a family shortly after signing on the dotted
>line.
>
>I don’t know guys, I just don’t know
>
>charles



Sorry to be nosey; but what WAS your decision?

 

[mirangerman]

Hi Guys ~
I figured I’d better get my keester going and reply about my decision. I had decided not to go.
In a nutshell, I guess you can say that the reality of the beast of good financial planning and slow times came crashing thru w/ a vengeance.

After doing some serious #’s crunching after talking to the O/O, things just weren’t looking too swell. Here’s the figures I came up with;
Miles 650 (taken as average from O/O statement of 500-800mi/wk)
x.47= $306
Gas 72
Quaal. 35
Van Lease 25
Taxes, Ins. 100
Everything Else 74

Yeah, I know;
1) the miles I used can be as wide ranging as the Kansas prairie. But the fact remains that the O/O stated to the point that getting 1k miles or more a week is more wishful thinking more than reality. Most often the miles his other drivers are getting are only in the 500-800m/pw. Period.
2) Financial planning cannot be stressed enough. Unfortunately, I got caught up in not listening to yours and my own advice, especially in regards to slow times. I have known since almost the get go that “B” units weren’t doing so great as compared to “C” – “E” units in terms of producing income. The income of a “B” unit might be fine for a single person, or retiree, but as far as a family man- well, I can see why the O/O said what he said.
3) Yeah I know most of the items listed above for averages can be taken off my taxes at the end of the year, but that doesn’t help in the day-day operations.

Also, my wife and I are trying to get another home b4 Winter, and practically every financial institution that I can think of want ya to have @ least one year of employment. Not a smart move to change jobs in the middle of trying to secure financing for a new home.

So it all boiled down to- would this move REALLY be in the best interest of my family? Especially the way things are in more ways than one. And I keep coming up w/ no, especially in regards to vans, of course- if I was living wild and free like DannyD… (lol)

Will I give expediting another chance? That’s a safer bet !
YES !
But only after I do better financial planning and saving (esp.), and only in a “C” – “E” unit. I’ll give “B” units another try when I hit retirement age.

On a lighter note, I was going through my old income and tax stuff the other day and happened to see that I had a copy of my unemployment eligibility claims form from 2002. I don’t know if I should laugh, cry, or both. It said my unemployment benefit was $233/week, right now I am averaging a bit less than that delivering pizza’s. What’s a guy to do?

Cya’s !

Charles

ps- sorry the way the post "looks". For some reason transfering it from Microsoft Word to here didn't work so good.

 

[terryandrene]

MIRANGERMAN:

Congratulations on a wise, well thought out decision. Others can learn from your posts in this thread that Expediting in a third party van (B) is not the way to feather the nest of most people, including you.

I'm sure the other members join me in wishing you and your family success in the future.

Terry and Rene'

 

[LDB]

>Hi Guys ~
>After doing some serious #’s crunching after talking to the
>O/O, things just weren’t looking too swell. Here’s the
>figures I came up with;
> Miles 650 (taken as average
>from O/O statement of 500-800mi/wk)
> x.47= $306
> Gas 72
> Quaal. 35
> Van Lease 25
> Taxes, Ins. 100
> Everything Else 74
>
>Charles
>

I believe you made the correct decision for you at this time. I'm not sure where some of your numbers came from as I've always heard a 60/40 split and the 60 side pays fuel and tolls. I'm with you on $306 being the 60% portion from 650 miles run. I'm with you on $72 for fuel as that sounds within a reasonable range for a van.

Where I'm lost is the QC and van lease amounts as I haven't heard of the driver paying for the QC or a lease fee on the van. I'm also not sure I'm with you on the taxes/ins. portion as $100 seems too high on that if you are only paying your occ/acc insurance and federal self employment taxes. I have no idea what's included in everything else so I don't know if I'm with you on that either.

Bottom line is there shouldn't be as much deducted as you show however even with the gross less burdened it still leaves too little net. Good luck to you in whatever you do.

Leo
truck 4958

Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[Broompilot]

I appriciate his thinking this through.

People lets face it these Vans just do not produce enough income to do anything more than pay for themselves. Everytime I see one I wonder how long he/she is gona last out there.

Why use this industry to subsidize another? I am at a loss, sleeping conditions are terrible, no room to relaxe in comfortably, the list goes on and on. To do so you must invest a large % of the vehicle cost to accomidate living in, and the pay just does afford the return on investment.

It comes back to a simple # Vans are not paid enough to support a family or barley a single person. There are exceptions but the numbers I came up with did not support it and I thank the recruiters for telling me so up front. I did look into a Van and if the numbers would have worked I could have done OK but thats the word (IF)

(IF) does not make rent, car payments, food, utilies, etc....

Now Terry seems to prove my whole Theory wrong, Smart Business Plan?
He is the true expert in Vans, but alot of these guys I talk to out there cannot afford to idle or go home because they are out of $ on the ComData card so until the next load offer comes along they are stuck and broke, not a life for me.

 

[Loose_Cannon47]

Terry obviously makes it work, as do many other van drivers...he has a plan that works, and if you look at his past posts, you can see that he invests his income wisely...I don't think you can operate any business unless you can separate the company wallet from your own...the company (your company) has to make a profit, as well as the employees (you)..Terry has the benefit of many years in this business, and all the experience he has accumulated during that time...it works for him, and helps put a living wage in his pocket...circumstances are different for everyone, but the recurring thread is that you need a plan, and plenty of reserve cash to make ANY business work...the other option is a steady job, regular work hours and pay, and whatever benefits you can get from your employer...


Loose

 

[mirangerman]

Hi all

Some clarification (esp. for Leo)

1)The contract conditions spelled it out all in b/w that I was to pay for everything associated in the daily operation of the van, inc. the use of the quaalcom- like he told me, I'm the one who'll be using it, so....

2) taxes were based on 25% for fed/st taxes, a little high probably, but better safe than sorry.

3)workmens comp. ins. = $120+/- mo/4wks= $30/wk

4) He wanted a $1k sec.dep. on van, but for some reason he was calling it a "lease". Reason being in case I cause damage to the van (malicious intent) or leave it in #@ egypt if I just up and quit.

5) everything else = on road expenses, at home expenses, etc.

There were of course expenses in the contract that I didn't have to worry about paying for, like tires, oil changes, etc. I nmust say that I was rather impressed with the way the contract was written. It was in such great detail (it covered six pages !) that it left no doubt about who was doing what, and who was liable for what. There was even a vehicle inspection form that he had with the contract as to the van's current condition, and what was in the van.

IMHO he was as sincere as Jesus (well, almost !- lol), as I told my wife- what do you say about a guy who, over the course of about 1/2 hour ask's ya in at least three different ways/x's - "do you really want to do this?", and, "the net is waa -aaay lousy (my words)".

I have learned some valuable lesson's, while eating humble pie at almost the same time. One biggie is proper financial back-up - cash reserves for those times that are slow. And from the old lesson learned from Bus. Man. 101- if starting ones own business, you should plan on no less than one years worth of living expenses in reserves. Another biggie- in the "is it just me, or what dept., seems to me that the lower ya go class wise, the lower the income potential. I have read elsewhere that most places would rather at least piggy-back off of someone else because of its cost effectiveness rather than send it by van.

That's the biggest part I didn't plan out properly - the money part.

I do thank most of ya'll for trying to beat into us newbies about "business planning" - it just can't be stressed enough !
It's probably one of the reasons I got the gitters after talking to the O/O. Now that I've learned some valuable lessons, I will do a better job of planning my finances for when I do go into expediting- and it ain't gonna be no van !

l8tr all !

charles

 

[Tennesseahawk]

My opinion is that qualcomm is as essential to expediting as tires on the van/truck. I think it's penny-pinching on his part to want the driver to pay for the qualcomm because they're the ones using it. Once the satellite is put on the van, it's part of the van... therefore, the owner's responsibility.

I can't stand owners who'll nickel and dime their drivers to death. If they're that meticulous, they should drive their own damned truck!

The most I can see the driver paying for (besides fuel) is their occ insurance... and even that's a stretch.

The only times I charged a driver above and beyond our agreement was:
Fuel to deadhead home from Arkansas after I warned him not to take loads further out, and ...
I took the charge for a physical out of a driver's pay when he left me after 9 days.

Things resulting from a driver's neglegence or brain fart are one thing. But they can't control, nor do they dictate, how much something like qualcomm costs. If he's that worried, tell him he should move to a company that doesn't use satellite... then tell him good luck with his phone bill.

 

[davekc]

Some clarification (esp. for Leo)

1)The contract conditions spelled it out all in b/w that I was to pay for everything associated in the daily operation of the van, inc. the use of the quaalcom- like he told me, I'm the one who'll be using it, so....

2) taxes were based on 25% for fed/st taxes, a little high probably, but better safe than sorry.

3)workmens comp. ins. = $120+/- mo/4wks= $30/wk

4) He wanted a $1k sec.dep. on van, but for some reason he was calling it a "lease". Reason being in case I cause damage to the van (malicious intent) or leave it in #@ egypt if I just up and quit.

5) everything else = on road expenses, at home expenses, etc.

There were of course expenses in the contract that I didn't have to worry about paying for, like tires, oil changes, etc. I nmust say that I was rather impressed with the way the contract was written. It was in such great detail (it covered six pages !) that it left no doubt about who was doing what, and who was liable for what. There was even a vehicle inspection form that he had with the contract as to the van's


This appears to be an inexperienced owner.
In one breath he is saying and structuring his agreement like he is leasing the vehicle, the next he is taking taxes like you are an employee.
Then he is charging you for all associated costs related to the van, in addition to a depeosit.
He can't have it both ways.
I would look for a better deal that is legal and makes some sense.

Davekc
owner
20 years

 

[mirangerman]

davekc -- he's NOT the one who is taking out the taxes - I am !
its nicer to take out taxes on a weekly basis, that way one doesn't hopefully owe so much when one files

Tennessee - now that I think about it, maybe you're right- maybe he should be driving his own van. As far as him being experienced, he say's he's been doing this for at least a decade along w/doing it with his dad and brother for awhile pri0r to that.

 

[davekc]

Sorry about that,
I was under the impression he was collecting the taxes.

That aside, I am not sure why you would be paying the QC?

The lease is in his name on the QC unit, and he is benefiting from it as much as you are.

It still sounds like a strange setup either way.

Davekc

 

[LDB]

>Hi all
>
>Some clarification (esp. for Leo)
>
>1)The contract conditions spelled it out all in b/w that I
>was to pay for everything associated in the daily operation
>of the van, inc. the use of the quaalcom- like he told me,
>I'm the one who'll be using it, so....
>
>2) taxes were based on 25% for fed/st taxes, a little high
>probably, but better safe than sorry.
>
>3)workmens comp. ins. = $120+/- mo/4wks= $30/wk
>
>4) He wanted a $1k sec.dep. on van, but for some reason he
>was calling it a "lease". Reason being in case I cause
>damage to the van (malicious intent) or leave it in #@ egypt
>if I just up and quit.
>
>5) everything else = on road expenses, at home expenses,
>etc.
>charles

1. Of all the drivers I've talked to the only ones paying QC were the O/O's. None of the ones driving someone else's vehicle were paying for it. That doesn't mean a few aren't, just that it seems abnormal and as others have already said shouldn't be your burden.

2. At 25% you'll get back a refund I'm sure but as you say better safe than sorry.

3. Occupational accident through Panther is $19.75 a week so again I think you're safe plus some.

4. Depending on the carrier there could be a significant amount of payroll in the pipeline to be used without taking more of your money into an escrow account.

5. Now I'm with you.

I still believe you made a prudent decision for your situation however I also still believe your figures didn't reflect as much pay to you as you should receive. I hope when you are ready you find an even better deal than this one. Good luck to you.

Leo
truck 4958

Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.