Getting jacked up by the cops in Iowa right now

Rocketman

Veteran Expediter
Wow...Ive been meaning to tell you Amonger (sorry, I got kinda busy and forgot), but a couple nights ago I passed by you while you were sleeping. There was like a dozen cops surrounding your van! Yeah, they were all looking in the windows and crawling underneath it and all kinds of stuff trying to find something wrong. I asked them what they were doing and they told me they do that every night after you go to sleep...no matter where you are??? Wow...I cant blame ya for being worried? :D
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
Wow...Ive been meaning to tell you Amonger (sorry, I got kinda busy and forgot), but a couple nights ago I passed by you while you were sleeping. There was like a dozen cops surrounding your van! Yeah, they were all looking in the windows and crawling underneath it and all kinds of stuff trying to find something wrong. I asked them what they were doing and they told me they do that every night after you go to sleep...no matter where you are??? Wow...I cant blame ya for being worried? :D

Interesting how you turn concern for civil rights into a joke about paranoia. They say the Founding Fathers couldn't even win a primary now. It sounds like you'd be one who would vote against them. Hey, you voted for Obama, didn't you?
 

beachbum

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
And if he did, what's the problem? In this country we have a election every four years for President and people vote for who they want not for who you or anyone else wants.
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
And if he did, what's the problem? In this country we have a election every four years for President and people vote for who they want not for who you or anyone else wants.

I'm saying Obama is the logical choice for someone who has a deficient view of and a disdain for rights. It's a juxtaposition between the values of the Founding Feathers and the values of a socialist dirtbag like Obama.
 
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beachbum

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
No, what you don't seem to understand is people have a different view on the constitution then you do and others that are on the far right. The republicans are the ones who are the ones who stepped on the constitution during the Bush years after 9/11 and the right seems to forget that.

I did not vote for Obama, but I'm racking my brain to find something that Obama did that has stepped on the Constitution.

Now both of us might not like some of the things that have been passed by Congress and signed by the President, but that's what happens in our country , we disagree.

Like I said before, if the people don't like what has happened over the last 3 years they will not reelect Obama, period.
 
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purgoose10

Veteran Expediter
In this case, it's that government, including cops, is/are our servants, and so not only is there a general standard that they not abuse the power we've given them, but we have specific prohibitions, some listed in the Bill of Rights, that limit their power. Thinking they're above us is manifested by both their demeanor and violating the Bill of Rights. It's essentially like an attack dog turning on its master.

I simpathize with you and somehow the cops. It's almost like being a trucker. Everyone the cops deal with lie to them, cheat them, spit on them and everything else that makes them develope an attitude. A trucker gets lied to daily, treated like the bottom end of the septic line and yet no one understands why they have a lousy attitude. Kind of runs hand in hand. The only difference in the two is one is armed (in most cases).:cool:
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
No, what you don't seem to understand is people have a different view on the constitution then you do and others that are on the far right.

Ok, sure, but that's why our founding documents are written down, not just some general declaration that we're free. Remember how federalists & anti federalists argued over this prior to the ratification of the constitution. There was, at first, no Bill of Rights. But prior to ratifying, several states wouldn't ratify without some documentation of rights. It was argued that freedom was provided for in the whole of the constitution, so it was unnecessary, and that further, if such a list is created, it would tend to suggest to some that the list comprises the totality of our rights and we'd end up losing rights instead of gaining them.

But the faction controlling the states that wouldn't ratify wouldn't budge, and the Bill of Rights was penned, rights not given to us, but rights inherent in ourselves, and actually already recognized by the limitations placed on government in the rest of the constitution (it specified the powers of the 3 branches, so everything else was outside of them). The 9th & 10th amendments were included to put to rest the concern that a listing of rights would suggest that those were the totality of them.

So, all that is to say, the documentation of our rights is for the purpose of doing away with ambiguity over them. So there's little room for differing views on the constitution and rights. That's why we document things. When the city passes a law prohibiting parking on 3rd Street, they don't just say, "We have to do something about the congestion problem downtown" and then just start ticketing and towing. They craft the ordinance, write the details, debate it, pass it, document it, publish it, sign it, stamp it, file it, etc. all to eliminate different views of it.

Same with the constitution and our rights. We can look to history to see how it was crafted, debated, shaped, and then memorialized forever to prevent alternate views that would diminish our rights. This is Western thinking on the matter.

This was a point of contention between the early Europeans arriving in North America and the Indians. The Indians who were nomadic would come back to their summer location and find the white man there and consider them trespassing on their land. The white man said, in effect, "Your land? Where's it written that it's your land? Where's your court house? We'd like to see the deed." The Indians position was this is how it's always been, how we live up here in the summer and go there in the winter, then we come back. Always been that way, so that makes it true. Our land. But Western Civilization demands documentation to eliminate ambiguity. "What are the borders of this land you claim? From where to where? When and from whom did you obtain it?"

The republicans are the ones who are the ones who stepped on the constitution during the Bush years after 9/11 and the right seems to forget that.

True, but don't make the mistake of confusing "the Right" with "members of the Republican Party." There's a deep and wide division in the Republican Party, and Bush was a member of the party, but he and his neo-conservatives weren't on "the Right." That's why we term them neocons, to differentiate them from traditional paleo-conservatives, who are on the Right.

In fact, the difference between the neocons and paleo-conservatives is representative of this very matter. Traditional conservatism believes in a few core principles that define it:
1) the rule of law;
2) limited government with only the powers enumerated in the constitution;
3) natural rights; and
4) fiscal responsibility.
The first 3 deal with eliminating the ambiguity in determining powers and rights. They're not shades of gray, and they're static, not shaped by the beliefs of those in power or popular opinion. So conservatism is about a standard of rights, not malleable rights dependent on individual or group views of what they or the constitution is.

So a differing view? Fine, but Western Civilization doesn't allow for that as far as government, and individual rights won't survive individual views being allowed to shape them. One standard, openly arrived at, documented forever for all to see.

I did not vote for Obama, but I'm racking my brain to find something that Obama did that has stepped on the Constitution.

I wish I had read the whole post more closely before typing all that. I hadn't realized until now that you're trying to be funny.
 
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morningstar55ny

Veteran Expediter
Driver
late last night.... while driving south on i71 , .. listening to my favorite music on the radio station.
there were alll these pretty blue lights just flashing in the darkness on the north bound side...
and i counted .. 8 ............ 8 trooper cars all lined up behind each other. they had captured a box cargo van. didnt see anything on the van it was in a plain white wrapper.
i would say it was close to the mansfield area. in ohio...

i think if someone does anything to deface a commercial vehical they haul frieght in... puts themselves in risk of being checked out.... just sayin.
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
I simpathize with you and somehow the cops. It's almost like being a trucker. Everyone the cops deal with lie to them, cheat them, spit on them and everything else that makes them develope an attitude. A trucker gets lied to daily, treated like the bottom end of the septic line and yet no one understands why they have a lousy attitude. Kind of runs hand in hand. The only difference in the two is one is armed (in most cases).:cool:

True, it's a situation that feeds from both ends. Otoh, the deputy in Iowa was extremely nice, and I was nice in return before I had even realized it. Had he played GI Joe, my reaction would have been different.
 

Rocketman

Veteran Expediter
I believe that police officers are human and they will have human flaws. Some will be GI Joe, some will be Andy Griffith and the rest will be somewhere in between.

Ive never known when I was standing next to a rapist, murderer or a child molester in a checkout line or anywhere else, but I have no doubt in my mind that I have. I am glad that police officers have a "suspicious" attitude. I want them to have a "suspicious" attitude. I want them to investigate further the people who trigger that suspicious attitude. Thats what happened to you, nothing more, nothing less. They found nothing, so they did nothing. No harm, no foul.

The difference is that if it had happened to me, I wouldnt have given it a second thought other than maybe to try and understand, maybe even ask them what made me look suspicious so I could correct it. For you, just the fact that there was a police officer in your presence prompted a real-time post on the internet of that fact. You are so obsessed with this "every cop is a bad cop" stuff that you let it consume you. If you think I'm misjudging you, read your signature line.

No, I didnt vote for Obama and no, I dont think its any of your business if I had. This is not the "soapbox" forum and personally, I would just as soon you keep your political whack job views in the soapbox. I dont participate there because it has nothing to do with expediting and I truly dont understand why the stupidity of political bickering is allowed on this site anywhere, especially in this general forum.
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
I believe that police officers are human and they will have human flaws. Some will be GI Joe, some will be Andy Griffith and the rest will be somewhere in between.
For you, just the fact that there was a police officer in your presence prompted a real-time post on the internet of that fact.

The reason I did that is because it was kind of ironic that I had, not long before, posted something about the right to remain silent, and here I was, in an encounter with them.

You are so obsessed with this "every cop is a bad cop" stuff that you let it consume you. If you think I'm misjudging you, read your signature line.
Not all. And not even 95%. I've stated before that that's hyperbole. But my obsession, as you say, is that so many more are on the GI Joe end of the spectrum.

I would just as soon you keep your political whack job views in the soapbox.
When I started the thread, I didn't intend for it to go this direction. I figured others would make the connection between my recent post on the right to remain silent and also see the irony. After he went away and I posted wow, he was actually a pretty nice guy, I figured that would be the end of it.
 
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Rocketman

Veteran Expediter
I agree. This thread belongs in the soapbox.

Rocketman, it's good to have a soapbox forum. It helps keep the general and other forum free of political clutter.

I can see the reasoning behind it. It does seem to encourage spill over into the other forums though. I dont remember quite so many political discussions before the creation of the soapbox though. Im good with it.

Now that this is in the soapbox...where it belongs...I'm done.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
When I started the thread, I didn't intend for it to go this direction. I figured others would make the connection between my recent post on the right to remain silent and also see the irony. After he went away and I posted wow, he was actually a pretty nice guy, I figured that would be the end of it.
OEers passing up the opportunity to be judgmental? Puhleeze.

Had he played GI Joe, my reaction would have been different.
Tickets to that, please! :D
 
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