General Economic Conditions

dieseldiva

Veteran Expediter
And while we're on the subject of ratings, you nor anyone else here would have no knowledge of how I rated anyone if it weren't for this going on:

10. Private communications
Private communication between the moderators, administrators and other forum members is not to be made public
on these forums or by any other venue. You are not permitted to publicize any private correspondence received
from any of the aforementioned.
 

Doggie Daddy

Veteran Expediter
WOA,I think rule #10 has been broken many times here on the forums.And by people that should know the code of conduct best.DD.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Negative more than positive?? You wouldn't know as those that I rate with anything positive don't make a habit of whining about it publicly.

You are correct, I wouldn't know. I only went by what you stated in your post.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I think this thread is headed south as we had a debate on ROI and now it has went to a ratings discussion.
With regards to the #10 rule, it was already posted by the author as to why she gave whatever ratings she did.

For the benefit of the new, it is a value to know that banter back and forth is a good thing. I wouldn't read anything more into it than that. I don't believe there is a "competition" of any sorts. I have already done what Phil is doing (WG) many years ago. Likewise, I don't think Phil has any aspirations of being a fleet owner as he has written.
But....he can speak for himself.
If one feels that need to hold the mods to a higher standard, then one would expect nothing less than a opposing view for the benefit of the new folks if something is in question or could be misinterpreted.
Even more important when you get into truck buying and business issues.
In today's economy, new folks have even more on the line than many of us had. I think we should give them that benefit.
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
And while we're on the subject of ratings, you nor anyone else here would have no knowledge of how I rated anyone if it weren't for this going on:
10. Private communications... <snipped>

Actually, I still have no knowledge of how you rated anyone. Don't really care. Like I said, I have no fascination with the ratings at all, much less in how you personally rate people. People can say someone gave them this or that rating, should I believe them? I dunno. Does it matter? How you rate someone, that's your business. Again, I was merely commenting on what you posted in this thread, and I stand by my conclusions, and the logical process used to reach them.

If I were you, I don't think I'd take that as any kind of personal affront, as your actions regarding ratings are your own business, and are neither good nor bad. And whatever rating you give someone, you have your own reasons for doing so. If you are defensive about the ratings you give someone (as seems to be the case), then perhaps you should reexamine the methods used to determine a positive or negative rating. That's up to you. If the method is sound by your own reasoning, be it right, wrong or indifferent by other's standards, then there's nothing to be defensive about.

What I find fascinating is the community aspect of online community forums such as this one. Much like a real neighborhood community, the established members of the community look upon newcomers with a wary eye. And rightly so, to a degree. Newcomers, hooligans and others too often want to remake the community into what they wish it to be, rather than accepting it for what it already is. To wit:

"I cannot count the times while on the road we have met folks with this same opinion and the comment, "I read there but can't stand the way some of the people treat others". If you're reading ALL of the posts, you will see these comments made on occasion but there doesn't seem to be any concern about it.......or maybe it's just the attitude that "we are so right, we're always right, and anyone that disagrees with us or the WAY WE TREAT PEOPLE HERE is outcast"."


That's pretty much true of any community, be it online, an apartment building, or a town. Some people will fit in with those who are already there, some won't. Some will adapt to fit in, some won't. Whether it's a moderator or the local police, or an administrator or a community leader, it's all pretty much the same thing.

Not every town or online community is gonna be as neat and clean and nice and pretty as Mayberry. And even Mayberry had a jail, community leaders and various rascals and miscreants, not to mention newcomers and strangers, some that fit in and some that didn't.

Fascinating.
 

DreamTeam44

Seasoned Expediter
OMG!
When we get going with the big black cat here in the nearer future , will we have this much time on our hands?
From the outside looking in it has been very interesting watching and reading those of you engrained, we MUST remember this experience in order to enable us in remembering when we are on the inside looking out.

Whadduiknow
Whadduyouknow

That is the question:)
 

dcalien

Seasoned Expediter
Love your post about communities, Turtle. I still have no idea about the ratings, and guess it does not really matter to me other than I am trying to find out how this community operates.

Anyways, I guess this thread is supposed to be about income and such, so I probably should not have posted this as I have no comment on that.

Please be patient with me as I try to learn how to use these forums.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
OMG!
When we get going with the big black cat here in the nearer future , will we have this much time on our hands?
From the outside looking in it has been very interesting watching and reading those of you engrained, we MUST remember this experience in order to enable us in remembering when we are on the inside looking out.

DreamTeam44,

You are exactly right. It was with people like you in mind that I originated this thread. Remember? It started out talking about general economic conditions. It also included a word of caution about not entering the industry without some money in the bank. Sadly, the subject was immediatly changed to an abstract economic concept and the thread became useless to anyone new about to jump into expediting.

When I was in your position, about to jump in, I too grew frustrated by the forum's inability to stay focused on a topic and its being a platform not for people to provide meaningful advice, but for people to demonstrate how much better they are than inexperienced people who, because of their inexperience, can't possibly know what they know or do what they do.

I have never forgotten that. And while I have engaged in the sidetracked, off topic debates as much as anyone, I have also tried to provide not just advice, but specific, actionable advice that newbies can actually use.

I don't say, find a good fleet owner. I name good fleet owners to talk to.

I don't say have a written business plan, I write a step-by-step series that tells readers exactly how to create one.

I don't say have a good load acceptance and relocation strategy, I share, with great detail, the specific strategy Diane and I use.

Sadly, every time I do, the predictable few jump in to either change the subject or make me wrong. I only hope that new readers can see through the jumble and get to the meaningful information.
 

RichM

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Abstract Economic concept. I don't think so . If you feel ROI means nothing I don't see how you could have called yourself a financial advisor.
 
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highway star

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
ROI an abstract concept? Not even! It's quite simple, an O/O invests in a truck and expects a reasonable return on that investment. Is there really more to it than that? Could you be trying to make it seem more abstract to justify spending a lot of money on a truck?
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Gonna have to call you on this one, Phil. You comments here, intentioned or not, are so hypocritical as to be laughable.

You berate others for what you perceive as them using this platform "not for people to provide meaningful advice, but for people to demonstrate how much better they are than inexperienced people who, because of their inexperience, can't possibly know what they know or do what they do," and you berate them by using the same exact methods you are berating them for.

"And while I have engaged in the sidetracked, off topic debates as much as anyone, I have also tried to provide not just advice, but specific, actionable advice that newbies can actually use."


If you'd have left it alone right there, it would have been excellent advice to others on this forum, as specific, actionable advice is generally sorely lacking here (for many reasons, not the least of which is everyone's situation is different). But you couldn't leave well enough alone. You had to take it from simple, sound advice, right to how you're better than others because you give out such advice.

I don't say, find a good fleet owner
(like others say). I name good fleet owners to talk to. (therefor I'm better)

I don't say have a written business plan
(like others say), I write a step-by-step series that tells readers exactly how to create one. (therefor I'm better)

I don't say have a good load acceptance and relocation strategy,
(like others say) I share, with great detail, the specific strategy Diane and I use. (yet by your own admission, what works for you is not likely to work for others)

Taking such pains to demonstrate that your particular brand of experienced advice is superior to the experienced advice of others is nothing more than an attempt to elevate yourself above the common expediter folk. Just because others on here do not share you passions for the waxing poetic of pedantic prose on point, and will allow a conversational thread to evolve, i.e., "inability to stay focused on a topic," as if you have the ability we others lack, does not make anyone less important or inferior to you in any way whatsoever, particularly when you engage in the very sidetracked, off-topic debates that you abhor so soundly.

"Sadly, every time I do, the predictable few jump in to either change the subject or make me wrong."

That ought to tell you something. When you write from the point-of-view of superiority, or to put a finer point on it, of writing from the point-of-view of having to be superior, the reactions are going to be predictable, because it comes off as snooty and snobbish. If you don't believe me, go back through your posts and count up how many times you go out of your way, utterly off-topic and without need, to point out how you are not just a truck driver, but an elite, highly credentialed White Glove expediter, with an elite of the elite truck (excuse me, I mean unit, not a truck), even better equipped than many of those run-o-the-mill normal White Glove trucks.

On a side note, you have everything else in your sig, except the White Glove part. Interesting. Since you use it as often as you do in your postings, one has to wonder why your sig doesn't indicate White Glove. Is it because in a sig it would have less impact, less importance, than when used strategically within your posts? Or is it merely a case of "White Glove" not fitting into the visual aesthetics of the layout? Interesting, either way. :)

This is merely an observation and should not be construed as an attack. Far from it. This community, like all others, is made up of individuals, and you're one of them that helps keep the community what is it, alive and well. Far be it from me to suggest you change your style of writing or not show pride in what you do or the carrier you run for. My only suggestion is to scale back the feigning of shock when predictable reactions occur. And, don't berate people using the same methods to berate them that you are berating them for. That's it.
 
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Paul56

Seasoned Expediter
I'm really not trying to be difficult here; however, it seems to me there is a place for ROI in a thread titled "General Economic Cond" as related to newbies entering the expediting business.

What I have a hard time getting my head around is the notion of how ROI can be considered an abstract concept. Perhaps an explanation to us unbelievers as to why ROI is abstract may shed some light on this.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
There is concrete and abstract. A truck is concrete. Truck depreciation is abstract. Money in the bank is concrete. ROI is abstract, and especially so because because it is open to conflicting interpretations.

How much longer must we belabor ROI? The people who say it is important do nothing to show readers how to actually use it in their business. If is is sooo darn important, give readers something they can use. Explain exactly how you use it in your business. Show us how to calculate it. Use the hypothetical examples I presented above to make your case. If you don't do that, readers can only conclude that ROI is not an important concept at all.

This reminds me of, dare I say it? It reminds me of the discussion of luck. I say I don't believe in luck and the forum goes nuts about it for days after. I say ROI is not important in our one-truck business, and the forum is hot about that.

Don't talk about what I believe or don't believe. Talk about ROI in a way that is useful to readers, if you really think it is something they should grasp.

Kindly refer to this new thread on ROI, where any discussion about ROI being on topic or off topic is moot.
 
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Paul56

Seasoned Expediter
I suppose a newbie these days would be _lucky_ if they obtain any _ROI_ after entering the business.

Please refer to discussions about luck and ROI for further information. :D
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I suppose a newbie these days would be _lucky_ if they obtain any _ROI_ after entering the business.

Please refer to discussions about luck and ROI for further information. :D


That could apply in this example. I think it would be redundant to start another thread as mention. Even when a specific definition was provided, Phil says it is wrong, doesn't matter, and can't be applied. Many of the facts have already been provided in several other posts.
I believe as Turtle posted, that is why these threads generate the activity that they do.
As Paul stated, "It might have to do with seeing results without using fuzzy math".
 
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