Gays and wedding picture taking....

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Would you really want to do business with someone who doesn't want to do business with you ?
It's not about doing business with someone, it's about winning. If it was about doing business, they would simply take their business elsewhere. It's about making a point, about forcing people to accept gays as being normal, correct and proper, same as everyone else. It's about winning with the utter destruction of a religious doctrine that is against homosexuals.

And every time someone uses that religious doctrine as a defense, they lose their case, because court decisions that become the law of the land cannot take the side of a particular religion. Religious doctrine cannot and will not be permitted to infringe on the rights of others, so those with a religious objection needs to find a better argument.
 

pandora2112

Seasoned Expediter
Psm127_dad: Completely off topic but what does psm stand for? Every time I see your name my brain sees pms127! :p

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skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
If a restaurant, photographer, florist, baker or anyone else accepts any and all business in retail, then the have to accept gay business and black business and Muslim business without discrimination. However, if they accept jobs on a per-job contractual basis, they should be able to accept or reject any and all job commissions as they see fit.

For example, a restaurant open to the public must serve the public. Same with a photography studio that accepts walk-ins and general appointments. But a contract wedding photographer, a caterer, baker or a florist that does commissioned contract work should be able to refuse whatever work they don't want to do.

If you can compel someone to speak, then you can likewise compel them to remain silent. But the government can't to either.

If you can compel a photographer to accept contract work, then you can also force individuals to use that particular photographer, and only that photographer, for their photographic needs. And that's the argument that should be used in front of the Supreme Court.

If I were that photographer and were speaking with that gay couple, I'd tell them, "Sure, I'll photograph your weddings. The only thing is, you think I'm a good photographer, but I'm not. I don't know how to set exposures or the focus, and am still learning how to frame shots properly. Sometimes I get lucky, but not very often. I'll photograph your wedding, but your pictures are probably gonna suck. If I remember to take the lens cap off, that is."

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Turtle gets a free install of twin 50 cal. and 1000 rounds, full auto,,range finding radar, and battery back up for night time engagments with laser.............no charge
 

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
If a restaurant, photographer, florist, baker or anyone else accepts any and all business in retail, then the have to accept gay business and black business and Muslim business without discrimination. However, if they accept jobs on a per-job contractual basis, they should be able to accept or reject any and all job commissions as they see fit.

For example, a restaurant open to the public must serve the public. Same with a photography studio that accepts walk-ins and general appointments. But a contract wedding photographer, a caterer, baker or a florist that does commissioned contract work should be able to refuse whatever work they don't want to do.

If you can compel someone to speak, then you can likewise compel them to remain silent. But the government can't to either.

If you can compel a photographer to accept contract work, then you can also force individuals to use that particular photographer, and only that photographer, for their photographic needs. And that's the argument that should be used in front of the Supreme Court.

If I were that photographer and were speaking with that gay couple, I'd tell them, "Sure, I'll photograph your weddings. The only thing is, you think I'm a good photographer, but I'm not. I don't know how to set exposures or the focus, and am still learning how to frame shots properly. Sometimes I get lucky, but not very often. I'll photograph your wedding, but your pictures are probably gonna suck. If I remember to take the lens cap off, that is."

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Turtle gets a free install of twin 50 cal. and 1000 rounds, full auto,,range finding radar, and battery back up for night time engagments with laser.............no charge
 

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
Hear what u r saying - but - isn't that what is wrong with us today. The Muslims have the courage of their convictions. They conduct themselves according to their religion. Why shouldn't Christians do the same? If we think homosexuality is against our religion then why shouldn't we draw the line when we believe that taking the photo might endorse the activity? Perhaps that is why our country was founded on Christianity just as some Middle Eastern cultures were founded on a belief in Mohammed? Maybe we in the USA just need to stand up for the principles our country was founded on?
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
If a restaurant, photographer, florist, baker or anyone else accepts any and all business in retail, then the have to accept gay business and black business and Muslim business without discrimination. However, if they accept jobs on a per-job contractual basis, they should be able to accept or reject any and all job commissions as they see fit.

If their religious beliefs take precedence, they should make that clear up front, because it's not something most customers would expect to encounter from a service provider. Perhaps a questionnaire before accepting assignments, just so there's no confusion about what they're willing to do.
Because, what happens if the service provider agrees to provide their service and only afterwards finds they have some personal objection - do they get to renege on their commitment? If so, can they cancel on the day of the ceremony, if that's when they realize they object? Like, say: they refuse to photograph people they consider unattractive, because it makes for terrible advertising. [At least they have a business related reason for that one!]

For example, a restaurant open to the public must serve the public. Same with a photography studio that accepts walk-ins and general appointments. But a contract wedding photographer, a caterer, baker or a florist that does commissioned contract work should be able to refuse whatever work they don't want to do.

If you can compel someone to speak, then you can likewise compel them to remain silent. But the government can't to either.

If you can compel a photographer to accept contract work, then you can also force individuals to use that particular photographer, and only that photographer, for their photographic needs. And that's the argument that should be used in front of the Supreme Court.

If I were that photographer and were speaking with that gay couple, I'd tell them, "Sure, I'll photograph your weddings. The only thing is, you think I'm a good photographer, but I'm not. I don't know how to set exposures or the focus, and am still learning how to frame shots properly. Sometimes I get lucky, but not very often. I'll photograph your wedding, but your pictures are probably gonna suck. If I remember to take the lens cap off, that is."

You'd rather be seen as a liar, or incompetent, professionally? Because if I heard that from a service provider, I'd get it on the record, and definitely slap it up on facebook. Good luck claiming defamation.
 

cranis

Expert Expediter
Driver
As we all know, is that a place of business such as a resturant etc, can and do refuse service to anyone they choose .Ive seen signs saying this( We reserve the right to refuse service) So why is the courts telliing this person that she can not refuse to photograph what she believes

Heck there was a story this week of Mcdonalds is telling people how to dress in their place

Local McDonalds restaurant's policy on sagging pants generates response - YouTube
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
You'd rather be seen as a liar, or incompetent, professionally?
No, not at all. They wouldn't see me as either, since they're already familiar with my work and they would know, unquestionably, that what I said was to make a point. If they wanted to push things to make their point and try to force me to photograph their wedding, then they could be assured of getting crappy pictures.

Because if I heard that from a service provider, I'd get it on the record, and definitely slap it up on facebook. Good luck claiming defamation.
Good luck with getting it on the record.

However, as someone mentioned to me in a PM, I could take a completely different tactic and tell them, very matter of factly, the following:
Same-sex "weddings" Strategy
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
As we all know, is that a place of business such as a resturant etc, can and do refuse service to anyone they choose .Ive seen signs saying this( We reserve the right to refuse service) So why is the courts telliing this person that she can not refuse to photograph what she believes

Heck there was a story this week of Mcdonalds is telling people how to dress in their place

Local McDonalds restaurant's policy on sagging pants generates response - YouTube
The signs you see in restaurants do not apply to anyone protected under the Civil Rights Act. They cannot refuse service to someone based on race, color, creed or national origin. They can, however, refuse service to people for un-arbitrary reasons, where the customer’s presence in the restaurant detracts from the safety, welfare, and well-being of other patrons and the restaurant itself. Reasons can include unreasonably rowdy or causing trouble, would overfill capacity it allowed in, being accompanied by a large group of non-paying customers just looking to sit in and hang out with them, bad hygiene, no shirt, no shoes, or if they tried to come in just before closing time or when the kitchen is closed. Simply putting a sign up doesn't allow the restaurant owner to magically get around the Civil Rights act.
 

RoadTime

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
As we all know, is that a place of business such as a resturant etc, can and do refuse service to anyone they choose .Ive seen signs saying this( We reserve the right to refuse service) So why is the courts telliing this person that she can not refuse to photograph what she believes

Heck there was a story this week of Mcdonalds is telling people how to dress in their place

Local McDonalds restaurant's policy on sagging pants generates response - YouTube

What next, a time limit to eat your food? Oh wait, that's already happening :rolleyes:

Time Limit.jpg
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
You see sign that say, "No shoes, No Shirts, No Service" all the time. I have yet to see one that said, "No shoes, No Shirts, No Pants, No service". SO, I guess we can assume that as long as you have on a shirt and shoes you don't need to wear pants to get served.
 

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
You see sign that say, "No shoes, No Shirts, No Service" all the time. I have yet to see one that said, "No shoes, No Shirts, No Pants, No service". SO, I guess we can assume that as long as you have on a shirt and shoes you don't need to wear pants to get served.

tumblr_l88n0pzIVg1qa1nmpo1_500.jpg
 

pandora2112

Seasoned Expediter
I really could have gone my entire life without seeing that and been just fine!

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cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
No, not at all. They wouldn't see me as either, since they're already familiar with my work and they would know, unquestionably, that what I said was to make a point. If they wanted to push things to make their point and try to force me to photograph their wedding, then they could be assured of getting crappy pictures.

They'd see you as a liar, which is what you would be.
People who cannot refrain from subjecting others to their personal beliefs/convictions/fantasies whenever the opportunity arises have no business 'serving' the general public, who do not require anything beyond the professional services advertised. If you provide 'crappy' service, your business fails, and deservedly so.

Good luck with getting it on the record.

Not that hard to do, really.

However, as someone mentioned to me in a PM, I could take a completely different tactic and tell them, very matter of factly, the following:
Same-sex "weddings" Strategy

Do that, and you'd be explaining it to a judge in short order, because you contracted to perform specific duties that did not include voicing [or disseminating] your opinion on the moral character of the clients. Deliberately inflicting emotional distress upon innocent bystanders? Is that what Jesus would do? I bet the judge doesn't think so.
How long would your business last after that news item or vid goes viral? Talk about winning the battle and losing the war, lol. Genius!
 
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