Gay discrimination

asjssl

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
For the life of me I can't figure out why they want to get ripped of by the government like the rest of us? :cool:

Im sure you respect and cherish your marriage...why can't they have the ability to do so also

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davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
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Im sure you respect and cherish your marriage...why can't they have the ability to do so also

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No....I asked why they would want to get ripped off like the rest of us?
 

asjssl

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
No....I asked why they would want to get ripped off like the rest of us?

OK if marriage is so bad ..get divorced.. and just live as a couple..I would imagine they just want what everybody else is allowed to do...good or bad

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davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
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OK if marriage is so bad ..get divorced.. and just live as a couple..I would imagine they just want what everybody else is allowed to do...good or bad

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I believe you have answered your own question.
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
For the life of me I can't figure out why they want to get ripped of by the government like the rest of us? :cool:
In this day and age when traditional marriage is falling out of favor with so many young (and not so young) heterosexual couples, it seems odd that the homosexuals can't be satisfied with civil unions that provide them all the legal provisions of a married couple. But then again, they have their agenda that must be advanced which aims to redefine the cornerstone of civilization. They're not after equal rights - they already have those. They want special privileges that accommodate their abnormalities. As stated in a previous post, sexual behavior and/or orientation isn't the same as skin color or nationality
 

asjssl

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
In this day and age when traditional marriage is falling out of favor with so many young (and not so young) heterosexual couples, it seems odd that the homosexuals can't be satisfied with civil unions that provide them all the legal provisions of a married couple. But then again, they have their agenda that must be advanced which aims to redefine the cornerstone of civilization. They're not after equal rights - they already have those. They want special privileges that accommodate their abnormalities. As stated in a previous post, sexual behavior and/or orientation isn't the same as skin color or nationality


Yes it is...they were born that way just as I was born a white american...was no choosing that...no choosing who they are...your a fool to think otherwise
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Yes it is...they were born that way just as I was born a white american...was no choosing that...no choosing who they are...your a fool to think otherwise
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It doesn't matter whether you can chose or not, or whether you were born that way or not, sexual orientation is not a protected class.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
I just read that there are more than 1100 instances in federal laws [everything from taxes to insurance, contracts, property: all legal benefits of marriage] where it specifies "married" - none of those benefits would apply to a civil union, which is not marriage.
And even if they did: separate but equal is never equal, and we all know it.
Why are we still arguing it? Because conservative legislators keep creating laws to perpetuate the discrimination, same as they do with the other sex related area they want to control: women's reproductive rights.
If they'd stop creating laws to control what is none of their business, [and harms no one] we could stop arguing about it.
And maybe they could pay attention to some things that DO cause harm, instead.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Yeah, maybe they could pay attention to things that do harm others, like death.
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
I just read that there are more than 1100 instances in federal laws [everything from taxes to insurance, contracts, property: all legal benefits of marriage] where it specifies "married" - none of those benefits would apply to a civil union, which is not marriage.
And even if they did: separate but equal is never equal, and we all know it.
Why are we still arguing it? Because conservative legislators keep creating laws to perpetuate the discrimination, same as they do with the other sex related area they want to control: women's reproductive rights.
If they'd stop creating laws to control what is none of their business, [and harms no one] we could stop arguing about it.
And maybe they could pay attention to some things that DO cause harm, instead.

It wouldn't have to be separate, it would be really, really easy to make the benefits apply to any couple without changing the definition of the word marriage. You are grasping at straws and trying to make it seem much more difficult than it would be to justify the change. You seem to just fall for all the liberal propaganda which is proven when you use ignorant phrases like "women's reproductive rights". The debate over abortion has zero to do with women's reproductive rights.

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asjssl

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
It doesn't matter whether you can chose or not, or whether you were born that way or not, sexual orientation is not a protected class.

Needs to change..things change...we figured out keeping humans as slaves was not a good idea @ 1 point in history... change needs to come so all HUMANS are legally allowed to MARRY who they choose...anything less is crazy..NO NO you can not marry and devout your life to the 1 you love ..because of how you were born...crazy

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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
was being black a protected class at first?.....
Black, specifically? No. But race was. The very first ever protected class was race, then color, then religion, then national origin, then sex, then age, then pregnancy, then citizenship, then familial status (whether or not you have children), then disability, then veteran, and genetic information.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Black, specifically? No. But race was. The very first ever protected class was race, then color, then religion, then national origin, then sex, then age, then pregnancy, then citizenship, then familial status (whether or not you have children), then disability, then veteran, and genetic information.

you forgot pet ownership.....:rolleyes:
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It doesn't matter whether you can chose or not, or whether you were born that way or not, sexual orientation is not a protected class.
IMHO homosexuals are born with a different genetic makeup, but there are a lot of others who disagree with that viewpoint and claim it's a chosen behavior or lifestyle; both arguments have merit. Now consider those people who claim to be bisexual? That's behavioral choice no matter how you cut it. Why should they be considered a protected class? Now consider the matter of the age of consent: suppose you're one of the enlightened citizens living in the state of CT and a gay man in his 30s wants to marry your 15 year-old son? Fifteen happens to be the age of consent in CT. Should they be allowed to marry just because they think they're in love? Any sensible human being knows the answer to that. Fortunately, they can't get pregnant.

http://www.webistry.net/jan/consent.html
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
"Any sensible human being knows the answer to that. Fortunately, they can't get pregnant."


No, they can't get pregnant but they are STILL required to have OB coverage under Obama Care.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Needs to change..things change...we figured out keeping humans as slaves was not a good idea @ 1 point in history...
Slave ownership is not a protected class, either, nor should it be. Keeping humans as slaves has nothing whatsoever to do with gay marriage. Nothing. It's not even a valid analogy when it comes to change itself. Your arguments are all emotional arguments, not thought out or reasoned. Religion and reason are incompatible. I'll circle back to that later.

You want sexual orientation to be listed as a protect class? Why? "Oh, because it should be. It just should be, and that's all there is to it! It's the right thing to do!" Yeah, well, as soon as you open the door to protecting a specifictype of sexual orientation, like homosexuality, you are suddenly discriminating against all others. And I do mean ALL sexual deviations from the norm. Can you think of any sexual orientations that should not be protected? Because you can't protect one kind without protecting all kinds. Not if the Equal Protection Clause means anything at all.

Sexual orientation is defined as one's natural preference in sexual partners.

There are several problems with going out on that limb. One, the emotional argument is made for heterosexuality, homosexuality, and bisexuality. But also out on that limb lies NAMBLA, prostrate, licking their chops mumbling things like, "Hoosier Daddy?" Children are a natural preference in sexual partners, too, for some. It it ain't normal, but it's natural. Gee, where have I heard that before? A little farther out on the same limb are those necrophiliacs we all know and love. Every single deviant sexual attraction, and therefore the act itself, is now protected. Not only that, but now that you've gone there, you've played right into the hands of the religious nuts by protecting the sex act of your preferred sexual partner, not the attraction itself, so you've invited the government into your bedroom.

The only normal sexual attraction is heterosexual attraction between males and females, because that's how and why the species is still here. Everything else that doesn't purport to that goal is a deviation from nature of promoting the furtherance of the species. There's a reason the UN hasn't even defined "sexual orientation" and declared it to be a human right, and why they are highly unlikely to, and it's because of precisely what I'm talking about.

change needs to come so all HUMANS are legally allowed to MARRY who they choose...anything less is crazy..
Anything less is crazy. Interesting. Throughout all of recorded history (that goes back to 3500 BC, so more than 5500 years), except for the odd handful of exceptions here and there, a marriage was between a man and a woman, and it never had to be spelled out that way in the law. It's how society was formed, how it flourished, and how it survived. There's nothing crazy about that. You know what is crazy, though? Being self-centered and selfish so bad, to the point of only considering what you want without regard to others, and throwing a temper tantrum over it and trying to upset and destroy that which has worked exceedingly well for all of recorded human history. And that's precisely what this whole gay marriage thing is.

In 1970 two gay University of Minnesota students went to the district court clerk and asked for a marriage license. They were denied, and sued, because they wanted it really, really badly, without regard to more than 5470 years of recorded successful human history. They lost, huge.

Up until then, there was no restriction on gender in any marriage statute in any state within the U.S., and only three countries in the world at that time had enumerated gender restrictions (Brazil, Indonesia, and ironically, Egypt, because the first ever recorded same-sex union in history was in Egypt). There simply wasn't much of a need to spell out the blatantly obvious.

Then, in 1973, as a backlash to the court case, knowing that others would soon begin using the court system to try and get their wants and desired fulfilled, Maryland became the first state ever to have to write it down, to statutorily ban same-sex marriage. In the following 20 years, nearly every other state joined Maryland in statutorily banning same-sex marriage, totaling 47 states by 1994. That was quick.

But at the same time, in 1979 The Netherlands adopted "unregistered cohabitation" in civil law that gave gays the exact rights they were asking for, but it was soundly rejected by gays in the US as acceptable. They wanted the "M" word. In the 1980s Denmark became the first country in the entire world to recognize same-sex unions, with "registered partnerships" having the same exact meanings and rights as a marriage. Gays here rejected it, because it didn't have the correct title. They wanted the "M" word.

In the 1990s a few other countries did the same thing, Belgium, France, even California set up full-rights civil unions, with the same reaction from gays here in America. Not good enough, even though it's exactly the same in every way that matters. But, in 1993, a judge ruled that Hawaii's state law banning same-sex marriage was unconstitutional, and the gays knew they had their foot in the door. The reaction from Hawaii, though? They along with Alaska became the first states in the history of recorded history to pass State Constitutional amendments against same-sex marriage. Other US states followed suit and passed similar amendments in the following years, reaching a peak of 31 in 2012.

One by one these statues and amendments are being eliminated, because they are crazy, according to you. According to you all of society has been crazy for 99.2 percent of all of recorded human history. But by definition, crazy is deranged, out of proper range, disordered, senseless, impractical, totally unsound. But those words don't accurately describe 5500 years of practical, totally sound, logical, meaningful and rational human history. To describe the denial of same-sex marriage as crazy is short-sighted and off the mark, by 99.2 percent. You can't get much worse than that. Can you imagine having a .08 percent on-time delivery rate, and calling anything else crazy? I mean, you should be able to deliver any time you want, right?

NO NO you can not marry and devout your life to the 1 you love ..because of how you were born...crazy
Yes, exactly. Born crazy. Well, 99.2 percent crazy, anyway.

The case you, and those you are allied with, are making is an emotional case not grounded in reality or rational thought. It's a case that has far more in common with religious fanaticism than reality. You believe it to be right, therefore it is, and nothing will change your mind. But you haven't thought it through, haven't considered the consequences (granted, liberals never consider consequences, as the initial feel-good intent is all that matters, the consequences are inconsequential).

But we are already seeing the consequences, and they're serious. The Swedes have lost their freedoms of speech and religion. It started in 2003 when two pastors were arrested for reading from the scriptures and saying homosexuality is wrong. Where, oh, where did they performed this heinous act? In their own churches on a Sunday morning. Since then many others, preachers and non-preachers alike, have been arrested for daring to speak out against homosexuality. The institution of marriage is in grave decline in Scandinavia, because it no longer has any meaning. The Boy Scouts of American, a private organization, have faced countless lawsuits and are discriminated against for not allowing homosexual scout leaders for young boys. That's obscene. Long-term employees of major corporations have been fired for expressing their views against homosexuality. Freedom of speech? Not any more.

Once these consequences play out, the backlash against homosexuals is gonna be really ugly. Human nature, and history, shows that to be true. You don't upend 5500 years of human society and remain unscathed. After this glorious 15 minutes of fame, the lid will get clamped down, hard, just like it always has been in the past. Then it's the Matrix Reloaded all over again.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
IMHO homosexuals are born with a different genetic makeup, but there are a lot of others who disagree with that viewpoint and claim it's a chosen behavior or lifestyle; both arguments have merit.
I'm not so sure. If you come at the issue with a predisposed set of philosophies, then you can make the argument that it's a chosen behavior, but if you come at it grounded in reality, simple observation and experiment, cause and effect, consequences of actions, then it becomes far more a case of simply evolutionary biology than a choice. Who would choose such a lifestyle, to be sneered and shickered at, hated and even abused or killed? No one. At least not in anywhere near the 2-4 percent numbers we know homosexuals exist. Doesn't make any sense, so there must be something else involved. Cause and effect looks at the near-universal overwhelming compulsion of the sex drive, the need to have sex, and then look at who someone wants to have sex with. The sex is gonna happen, and it's gonna happen with those people are sexually attracted to. No one chooses who they are sexually attracted to. Observation and your own experiences should tell you that. You can experiment if you like, but I guarantee you the potential sexual partners you are repulsed by are not the ones you are going to have sex with. If you don't think that's true, just imagine yourself and Nancy Pelosi bumping ugly.

Now consider those people who claim to be bisexual? That's behavioral choice no matter how you cut it.
Why do you have to cut it? It doesn't have to be cut and dry, one way or the other. Common sense, logic and reality shows that there are many levels of sexual attraction. I, for instance, am attracted to women, but not necessarily all women, and certainly not all types of women. There are some types of women I find utterly unattractive to the point of being repulsed. There are some men, for example, who go goo goo for Asian women, and some men don't find them particularly attractive at all. The range of heterosexual attraction is nearly as wide as the range of those to be attracted to. The same holds true for homosexuals. It stands to reason that the same range would be found between gender attractions. As flawed as Kinsey's studies have been found to be, that's one thing that's been verified as true in many studies. You rank someone as 0 for totally heterosexual, and as 6 for totally homosexual, and there are 5 levels in between. Neither 0 nor 6 is a choice, so the other 5 levels likely aren't, either.

Why should they be considered a protected class?
They (bisexuals) shouldn't be. The desire is to make gays, lesbians, bisexuals, transgenders and whoever else a protect class. But that's simply making abnormal sexual deviations a protect class. As I note in the post above, that's not something we should be doing.
 
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