zero3nine
Veteran Expediter
For me it breaks down like this:
55mph - 19mpg
60mph - 17mpg
65mph - 15mpg
70mph - 13mpg
Towing - 12 MPG
Heavy winds - minus 1mpg for any speed. Towing stays consistent.
fired at you from my Droideka
Gas and Diesel Prices
- Thread starter skyraider
- Start date
For me it breaks down like this:
55mph - 19mpg
60mph - 17mpg
65mph - 15mpg
70mph - 13mpg
Towing - 12 MPG
Heavy winds - minus 1mpg for any speed. Towing stays consistent.
fired at you from my Droideka
clcooper
Expert Expediter
It took the Gas Prices How many years to get to 1.50 . How long did it take to go from 1.50 to 3.00 . You can say all you want but it is raised to keep the working man down . Look at the GPM of the vehicles back in the 70s . and look at the GPM today . Havent gotten much better GPM . There is no reason there isnt a vehicle that runs off of something else other then Gas Or the GPM isnt way Better then it is . Say all you want but the Gas prices and the GPM . Doesnt have any thing to do with only a select few making a killing of money ..
purgoose10
Veteran Expediter
TheRebel
Seasoned Expediter
I bet your driving a Chevy???
I'll say Ford...
I had a Savana '97 which was giving me 17 mpg, then an E-350 extended, with a better mileage per gallon: 20.
I'll say Ford...
I had a Savana '97 which was giving me 17 mpg, then an E-350 extended, with a better mileage per gallon: 20.
Really? I don't usually hear that about Fords. Good to know.
Jack_Berry
Moderator Emeritus
We were in mich yesterday. Petro on 69 at 80 was 3.25. Didn't want to pay thatso I called thepetro at mm45 on 69. Was told price was 3.159. By the time we arrived the price was 3.329 guess it will be winter of 07/08 all over agaain.
From the color nook again
guess it will be winter of 07/08 all over agaain.From the color nook again
aileron
Expert Expediter
Maybe they lied to you.
Posted with my Droid EO Forum App
We were in mich yesterday. Petro on 69 at 80 was 3.25. Didn't want to pay thatso I called thepetro at mm45 on 69. Was told price was 3.159. By the time we arrived the price was 3.329
From the color nook again
Posted with my Droid EO Forum App
Yes, Diane and I could stay in business if diesel prices rose to $7.00 a gallon; provided that the fuel surcharge arrangement our carrier has now would continue at $7.00 a gallon.
Our carrier uses an average of nine mpg for straight trucks when calculating the fuel surcharge. The more we exceed nine mpg in actual use, the more fuel surcharge money we can put in our pocket. That dynamic means that the higher fuel prices go, the better it is for us.
Offsetting that would be personal deadhead miles like when we drive home or drive out of our way to get the truck serviced or take in a tourist attraction. If fuel was $7.00 a gallon, we would certainly think twice and thrice before rolling down the road on our own nickle. The more expensive fuel becomes, the more valuable our comfortable sleeper grows because the sleeper comforts make it less necessary to move here, there and everywhere when we are laid over.
A competitive advantage would accrue to us if fuel rose to $7.00 a gallon. A lot of trucking companies would collapse if they had to pay that much for fuel. We would be among those still standing. When fuel peaked at over $5.00 a gallon not so long ago, we were a little disappointed to see it drop.
Fuel at $7.00 would have a down side in the overall economy. Consumers would cut back and economic growth would slow. That may have an effect but when fuel was over $5.00 a gallon, it did not seem to slow our truck down much.
It's counterintuitive to think that high fuel prices are good for our bottom line, but that seems to actually be the case.
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Ditto here as well Phil....as long as an appropriate FSC is applied...we may shed some of them carriers that don't keep up...which could really help.
Given the very fragile economy currently existing, who believes there would be much expedite freight to haul if gas/diesel hits $7.00 per gallon? We have tens of millions of US citizens and businesses teetering on collapse at this very moment. Which entities would be purchasing our expensive services? Just curious.
DannyD
Veteran Expediter
Someone mentioned the futures traders being the reason for the price increase in fuel. That is exactly correct. For those that want a purely 100% capatilistic society, either learn how to play the stock market & make some $$ off of it or suck it up & pay the higher petro costs.
I want to make it clear I'm not for socialism. At the same time, I don't think a small group of people should be able to get their paws on essential goods & make massive profits on it.
What these future traders are doing is completely legal. Is it ethical? I'm not so sure about that.
I'm not sure what the solution is. I don't think it's right that a few people can make millions, if not billions, of dollars simply because they know the tricks & trades of Wall Street though.
I want to make it clear I'm not for socialism. At the same time, I don't think a small group of people should be able to get their paws on essential goods & make massive profits on it.
What these future traders are doing is completely legal. Is it ethical? I'm not so sure about that.
I'm not sure what the solution is. I don't think it's right that a few people can make millions, if not billions, of dollars simply because they know the tricks & trades of Wall Street though.
DannyD
Veteran Expediter
And to answer the original question. My apologies for getting off topic.
If my rates went up I could. I get paid twice a month. I have the reserves to cover my fuel. I do know what ya mean when ya have a huge fuel expense & don't get paid for a month. Something similar sort of happened to me back in 2009.
Basically the company paid 30 days after receiving the invoice. I wasn't getting many runs from em. I spent $1200 or so in fuel. Then they conveniently lost the originals. I got my $$, but it was months later. By time they finally paid other bills came in.
If my rates went up I could. I get paid twice a month. I have the reserves to cover my fuel. I do know what ya mean when ya have a huge fuel expense & don't get paid for a month. Something similar sort of happened to me back in 2009.
Basically the company paid 30 days after receiving the invoice. I wasn't getting many runs from em. I spent $1200 or so in fuel. Then they conveniently lost the originals. I got my $$, but it was months later. By time they finally paid other bills came in.
If gas and diesel prices were to rise to $7.00 a gallon, could u stay in business? My van would then cost $210 a fill up or come out to about $2400.00 a month give or take a 100 dollars.
If ur one of the folks that gets paid once a month and no advance, u can see that things can get out of hand fast, well this was just a thought, It could never happen here
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Ethics only enters the picture at their level when they are effected by their actions. We are consumers, it is an open market from producers to the dispensers and we as consumers can either not buy or buy the product like anything else.
As FSC is brought up, I wonder what life would be like if there wasn't FSC.
Boasting that you can go to $7 a gallon price if your carrier covers it seems to be just boasting about dumb things without adding to the picture any reality. Reality is you are compensated for that additional cost and the price of fuel doesn't matter at all.
AND reality is that ALMOST all carriers will not lead or follow but adjust their prices accordingly. With that, I don't see the dying off of carriers with $7 a gallon or even $5 a gallon fuel. There wasn't much last time, most of that had to do with overall revenue because the customer is the one who has to foot the bill, not the carrier.
As FSC is brought up, I wonder what life would be like if there wasn't FSC.
Boasting that you can go to $7 a gallon price if your carrier covers it seems to be just boasting about dumb things without adding to the picture any reality. Reality is you are compensated for that additional cost and the price of fuel doesn't matter at all.
AND reality is that ALMOST all carriers will not lead or follow but adjust their prices accordingly. With that, I don't see the dying off of carriers with $7 a gallon or even $5 a gallon fuel. There wasn't much last time, most of that had to do with overall revenue because the customer is the one who has to foot the bill, not the carrier.
The entities that purchase our expensive services would be the same ones that purchase the services now; namely, those who ship freight that require temperature control, temperature monitoring, various forms of security, lift gates, inside deliveries, etc. Much of the freight we haul is not price sensitive. For a load that is worth millions of dollars to the shipper and consignee -- because of the value of the freight itself or because of the costs of the urgent need represented by the freight -- a few hundred or few thousand dollars in the shipping cost is a secondary concern.
Diane and I are not immune from recessionary forces. Our income declined in 2008 and 2009 as the Great Recession progressed. Nevertheless, our customers continued to ship products and our carrier continued to dispatch us.
The Great Recession was not caused by high fuel prices. If a fuel-price recession was induced, our run count may decline but profitability on the loads we did run would increase for the surcharge reasons explained above.
Note that the original question that started this thread was about who would remain in business if fuel prices rose to $7.00 a gallon. We can talk about larger topics until we are blue in the face. My responses are to the original question. Diane and I would not be forced out of business by $7.00 a gallon fuel.
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Note that the futures market is a zero-sum market; meaning that for every dollar amount positioned in a buy-side contract, an equal amount is positioned in a sell-side contract.
If someone wants to buy a $100 contract (long), someone else must agree to sell it (short). Without both a buyer and a seller, there would be no contract at all. If oil rises to $150 while the contract is in force, the contract buyer gains 50 percent and the contract seller loses 50 percent.
For every winner in the futures market, there is also a loser who gives up the exact amount that the wining trader gains. The winners get all the press but, rest assured, the losers feel the pain. In the futures market, the losers pay the winners and the money comes from the loser's account.
These speculators are not buying and selling oil. They are buying and selling futures contracts that convey the right to buy or sell oil a specified quantity of oil at a specified price at a specified date in the future.
Say that oil is selling for $100 a barrel today. If you buy a contract for say 10,000 barrels of oil at $200 a barrel for delivery in December, that does not mean that someone has to go out and pump an additional 10,000 barrels of oil out of the ground to fulfill the delivery requirement.
Speculators want cash, not oil. The contract seller is obligated to deliver the oil but will almost always fulfill his or her obligation with cash. So too with the contract buyer who is obligated to take delivery at the specified price and time. If the price of oil moves against the buyer while the contract is in force, the buyer will settle up with the seller with cash. The contracts are canceled when settled with cash. No oil actually changes hands.
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DannyD
Veteran Expediter
Phil,
Yes the futures market is like a high stakes poker game. But like Greg said, those are the ones who set the wheels in motion for fuel to go up.
The last time gas hit & $4 & in some parts of the country $5, the supply was plentiful. The demand wasn't overwhelming. Yet the prices shot up.
Yes the futures market is like a high stakes poker game. But like Greg said, those are the ones who set the wheels in motion for fuel to go up.
The last time gas hit & $4 & in some parts of the country $5, the supply was plentiful. The demand wasn't overwhelming. Yet the prices shot up.
Arguments have been made on both sides of the question by very intelligent people who are deep inside the business. I have read both sides and remain without a firm opinion of my own.
Oil companies routinely explain price increases with things like supply fears, demand spikes, seasonal shortages, bad weather, refinery disruptions, terrorist threats, etc. But at other times, these same events also occur with no price effect.
Again, I have no firm opinion but tend to believe that the oil companies will charge as much as they think they can get away with without regard to the futures market.
They don't get oil by buying futures contracts. They get oil by pumping it out of the ground. It is very convenient for them to shift the blame for high prices onto those evil rich speculators while oil company greed goes unbridled.
golfournut
Veteran Expediter
Keep in mind that better than 50% of the speculation in the commodity market is driven by Options to protect against Limit Downs. Of that less than 20% of long Options are exercised. The ones that aren't trading with Options, that actually buy contracts, are usually end users that want the product, big time speculators or day trading rookies.
If you are short and a Limit Down occurs, chances are your gonna be a lot richer than when you started the day, depending on your others trades if any. If your long, your screwed. Once a Limit Down occurs, all trading is shut down and it stops when it stops. Hopefully not zero. I have been out that market for 25 years now, but the last "major" Limit Down (AS far as I know) that I remember was OJ in the late 90s. It almost went to zero. Billions was lost in about a 5 hr period when a late freeze hit FL.
The major difference between the stock market and commodity market is the commodity market is purely driven on real time information. Charting will only loose you money. If your gonna play, you need have access to every weather and news channel around the world on 24/7 and you better be listening. The stock market, while it has its volatile moments, is driven more from other other sources that aren't always real time.
Charting techniques and historical information is used more before placing your bet.
While the producers try to set the price of their product, the price of the product from the middlemen is really what drives commodities. For example, OPEC says we want $75 a barrel, it trades at $100 a barrel. OPEC gets their $75, and the owner of the contract gets the difference.
On the other hand let's use soy beans, the farmer what $25 a bushel, but the most the market can generate is $23 a bushel, what happens. The farmer has a decision to make, take the $23 or let the soy bean rot in the field. Which by the way has happened way back when I think with corn one time but don't hold me to the corn part.
One last note, while we are a capitalistic society, these markets are participated by groups/countries of all the political spectrum from all over the world. Just because they are New York and Chicago based in this country, doesn't mean they are ours.
If you are short and a Limit Down occurs, chances are your gonna be a lot richer than when you started the day, depending on your others trades if any. If your long, your screwed. Once a Limit Down occurs, all trading is shut down and it stops when it stops. Hopefully not zero. I have been out that market for 25 years now, but the last "major" Limit Down (AS far as I know) that I remember was OJ in the late 90s. It almost went to zero. Billions was lost in about a 5 hr period when a late freeze hit FL.
The major difference between the stock market and commodity market is the commodity market is purely driven on real time information. Charting will only loose you money. If your gonna play, you need have access to every weather and news channel around the world on 24/7 and you better be listening. The stock market, while it has its volatile moments, is driven more from other other sources that aren't always real time.
Charting techniques and historical information is used more before placing your bet.
While the producers try to set the price of their product, the price of the product from the middlemen is really what drives commodities. For example, OPEC says we want $75 a barrel, it trades at $100 a barrel. OPEC gets their $75, and the owner of the contract gets the difference.
On the other hand let's use soy beans, the farmer what $25 a bushel, but the most the market can generate is $23 a bushel, what happens. The farmer has a decision to make, take the $23 or let the soy bean rot in the field. Which by the way has happened way back when I think with corn one time but don't hold me to the corn part.
One last note, while we are a capitalistic society, these markets are participated by groups/countries of all the political spectrum from all over the world. Just because they are New York and Chicago based in this country, doesn't mean they are ours.