Farm subsidies and world food shortages.

[clcooper]

That money wasn't earned by us. It was printed out the goodness of the government's heart (sarcasm). Yes, we could've been given 100,000 plus each; and you know what that would've caused? $1000 loaves of bread!

so with the world food shortages .we wont have $1000 loaves of bread also
.so the banks and the car makers how something to do with the price of bread ?? oh thats right they own stock on the wheat prices so they need to make their money some how .

please tell me how every body getting that money would raise the price of bread or anything else . so if i won the lottery tomorrow . all my prices will go up ??

 

[Tennesseahawk]

so with the world food shortages .we wont have $1000 loaves of bread also
.so the banks and the car makers how something to do with the price of bread ?? oh thats right they own stock on the wheat prices so they need to make their money some how .

please tell me how every body getting that money would raise the price of bread or anything else . so if i won the lottery tomorrow . all my prices will go up ??

You're not understanding. YOU winning the lottery tomorrow wouldn't change a thing. EVERYONE winning the lottery tomorrow would cause economic catastrophe! Prices across the board would go up; not to mention most of the workforce would quit their jobs. I only used bread as an example. If you're a shop owner, and there are a thousand people coming into your store to spend $100; and you know they have $100,000, what would you do? If you said, "Raise prices", you would be correct, sir.

 

[greg334]

1 - we have enough farm land and enough resources to farm what the entire world needs right here. This is not the 1800s where we didn't get the idea how to take care of the land, we learned and in many cases forced changes to stop the erosion that led to the dust bowl.

2 - the wheat shortage is not caused by the US and farm subsidies, it is caused by a distribution issue. The Ukraine and parts of China can produce enough wheat for Europe and Asia, but don't.

3 - the American Agricultural system is a mess and we do pay to produce nothing but those who benefit from that are large corporate farms - who actually feed a lot of us.

4 - what made small farms great was the system that allowed them to sell their produce but that system is a mess - local to many still means having veggies from 300 miles away.

5 - we have no poor in this country based on real world standards. BUT we have poor who would be rich in countries like Brazil and even Mexico. Their poor live in cardboard houses on garbage dumps while ours live in houses and drive cars or watch cable while talking on their cell phone who also don't stick together but live in a world of the individual. Some of our poor is given better chances to improve themselves while those other poor may never see a school or even a pencil and paper in their lives.

6 - we have enough room and enough resources if we are smart to handle three times the population.

7 - if you don't like the country taken over or the accommodations to those horrid people from other countries, then reproduce.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

The farm subsidies actually allow the smaller family run farm to compete against the company operated farm as well...
by paying for vacant land it allows for crop rotation to recharge the soil..while still making an income...

 

[greg334]

Explain to me how they compete when they all sell their produces in different ways?

Isn't farming a business?

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Explain to me how they compete when they all sell their produces in different ways?

Isn't farming a business?

Maybe "compete" is the wrong wording....

but getting paid to have an empty field really helps the bottom line.....Like getting paid DH on every load....

 

[greg334]

So I don't see the point - put it in practical terms on how not farming with tax payer money is better than farming and selling your stuff.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

I do however think farm subsidies have out grown the usefulness.....when corn yields per acre have increased nearly 4 fold over the years....the farmers are making more then ever....they don't really need the handout....

 

[greg334]

So you changed your tune and now it isn't alright?

Where does it help?

Maybe using the analogy of this business?

Let's see ...

You get paid to pick up and deliver stuff but now because the government wants to prop up rates so they pay you and a few thousand people to sit and do nothing while at truck stops. At the same time they regulate the trucks to prevent them from picking up those loads that you would pick up ensuring that vans pick them up at the rate a straight truck would normally take them at - $2 plus a mile.

Yep Drive less ... make more actually does seem possible

The average farmer deserves more than the government trying to limit them while at the same time giving millions to big farmers who use these handouts to make money.

BUT with that said, I don't see anywhere that we would be hurt by a free market that may be allow us to actually export our products to other countries without worrying about their farmers.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

So you changed your tune and now it isn't alright?

Where does it help?

Maybe using the analogy of this business?

Let's see ...

You get paid to pick up and deliver stuff but now because the government wants to prop up rates so they pay you and a few thousand people to sit and do nothing while at truck stops. At the same time they regulate the trucks to prevent them from picking up those loads that you would pick up ensuring that vans pick them up at the rate a straight truck would normally take them at - $2 plus a mile.

Yep Drive less ... make more actually does seem possible

The average farmer deserves more than the government trying to limit them while at the same time giving millions to big farmers who use these handouts to make money.

BUT with that said, I don't see anywhere that we would be hurt by a free market that may be allow us to actually export our products to other countries without worrying about their farmers.

LOL..yeah a little flip flop there....guess I was born to be a politician eh?

 

[Steady Eddie]

Look at the Numbers to see the waste. Here is a listing by stat ranking. A freind of mine has 23,000 acres that the gov pays him not to farm. He cannot put cattle on it, he cannot cut it for hay, he cannot cut it just to keep the trees from taking over, his kids-kids can never cut the timber on it while still taking the subsidies. It's all about price control of the crops to keep them from bottoming out. So they say.

Kansas and States Total Subsidy Payments || EWG Farm Subsidy Database

 

[mcavoy33]

LOS, here's my problem with that. If I grow wheat, and the Chinese are paying 2-3 times the price of wheat the US market is, guess who I'm selling to. I think the US needs to be prepared to loosen, or do away with those subsidies, in case something like this happens. We can't afford to give away wheat that was meant for US consumption.

Getting 2-3 times market value for an export commodity is a good thing. We need more of that in the US imo. We rely too much right now on foreign sources. We lack home made American goods.

Also getting 2-3 times market value isn't "giving away" the last time I checked.

edit: the market economy will self regulate in the end, if China is willing to pay 2-3 times market value for a sustained period, do you really think people are going to continue to take the subsidies?

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Getting 2-3 times market value for an export commodity is a good thing. We need more of that in the US imo. We rely too much right now on foreign sources. We lack home made American goods.

Also getting 2-3 times market value isn't "giving away" the last time I checked.

I meant selling to China what was meant for the US.

edit: the market economy will self regulate in the end, if China is willing to pay 2-3 times market value for a sustained period, do you really think people are going to continue to take the subsidies?

That's the point I was getting at!

I guess if China does buy it from us, yeah, our farmers will make a killing. And sorry to say it, but many other countries will be out of luck... creating further food riots. But why should the Chinese care? They are the Chinese, afterall.

 

[mcavoy33]

That's the point I was getting at!

I guess if China does buy it from us, yeah, our farmers will make a killing. And sorry to say it, but many other countries will be out of luck... creating further food riots. But why should the Chinese care? They are the Chinese, afterall.

For 20 years, all I've heard is how the poor farmers don't get enough money and now that someone wants to pay our farmers more, you want to force low prices on them to subsidize your needs?

That isn't capitalism, its socialism. Let the market dictate the prices, if China wants to pay $5 for a dozen corn, let them. That will mean more money for us as a whole imo. More profits for farmers.

 

[greg334]

You all are too funny....

Don't you know how it works?

The farmer gets only so much and they are not the ones who make the money, the distribution system is where the money is made. SO China can buy a billion tons of wheat to make their little pancakes but the farmer won't make the most money out of this, the middle man is making it.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

For 20 years, all I've heard is how the poor farmers don't get enough money and now that someone wants to pay our farmers more, you want to force low prices on them to subsidize your needs?

That isn't capitalism, its socialism. Let the market dictate the prices, if China wants to pay $5 for a dozen corn, let them. That will mean more money for us as a whole imo. More profits for farmers.

If what Greg is saying is true, this is moot. However, I was agreeing with you. I think our farmers should be able to sell their wheat for whatever they can get for it. I am just concerned about the wheat going to China that's meant for US consumption. Of course, China paying that much for it would also raise food prices here, as well.

 

[Falligator]

Well, if every American that could planted a garden this probably wouldn't be an issue. Maybe we should take an example from the Amish. They're pretty self sufficient last I heard.

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[Tennesseahawk]

Good point. Victory gardens come to mind. But in this case, it will be to combat food prices that will eventually become the norm.

 

[Falligator]

Good point. Victory gardens come to mind. But in this case, it will be to combat food prices that will eventually become the norm.

I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night...Lol (refering to the commercial that implies if you stay at a Holiday Inn it'll make you smarter)


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