Extra Charges

pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
I have read on here at various times about the breakdown on splitting revenue between owners and their drivers.

For example, Leo has posted that if a load pays extra for hand-loading/unloading, he will give 100% of that extra to the driver.

Alternately, if a load pays extra for using the tailgate, the driver won't get any of that extra money, since it's related to the truck itself.

I want to take that a step further, and ask you people if you happen to know if a carrier takes a percentage of the hand-load, or the tailgate, or whatever?

If a shipper/broker were paying an extra hundred bucks for hand-unloading, would the carrier take their usual percentage of that $100?

Just as the carriers, if they're reputable, won't take any of the fsc, I'm thinking it should be the same way for someone's labour. Otherwise.. what do you call that? Rhymes with chimp?
 

TeamCaffee

Administrator
Staff member
Owner/Operator
Our carrier takes their percentage off the bottom line.

As I see our carrier advertises and solicits this business. They have to keep up with our records on what size lift gate do we have, what size pallet jack do we have, how pads and how many straps and pads.

So our carrier is out money to get this kind of work and to advertise that we are more than just a common carrier so I cannot begrudge them this money.

As for a driver non O/O that is between the driver and the Owner have heard it both ways on how you get paid.
 

TeamCaffee

Administrator
Staff member
Owner/Operator
FedEx does their FSC different as we get paid on all miles not just loaded miles.
 

pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
Are you saying it would work like this then? (nevermind the accuracy of the numbers, just looking at how they get the calculations)

FECC to Shipper: Yes we can do that, the charge will be $3000 for 1000 miles; add to that $600 for FSC, and of course the driver will need extra for hand-unloading, so an additional $100; total is $3700 all in.

FECC to OO: You get .25/mile for all miles, there's 200 miles to pickup and 10 miles to layover, plus the 1000 loaded miles, so $302.50 for FSC; the total on the load was $3700 which includes $100 for hand unloading, so $3700 less $302.50 FSC = $3397.50; of that we will take 30%, so your settlement will be $2387.25 + $302.50 FSC = $2689.75

?
 

TeamCaffee

Administrator
Staff member
Owner/Operator
This week our fsc is .089 for our size and type truck. We do know what the customer pays for FSC or if they even pay a FSC at this point.
 

pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
Does your LM rate change with each load, because you are on a percentage?
How do you get to see what the customer pays for FSC? Do you see their invoice?
On the sample above, ok, change the FSC to read $89 then..
so $3700 - $89 = $3611 * 70% = 2527.70 is your take, plus add the $89 for your flat-rate FSC = 2616.70? And you would see the shipper paid $600? (As mentioned, if the amounts are not accurate, it doesn't matter, it's the calculations I'm going after)

I am not picking on FECC, so please don't think that. Not that you *are* thinking that.. just saying, I'm trying to get a grasp on how different entities do their calculations.. not really interested in exact figures.

I am just noticing different things lately, and find it quite ..... interesting.. er.. creative.. er... opportunistic.. how some of these things are getting calculated, and for the most part, most of us would never even know about it, depending on what kind of access one has to the nitty-gritty information.
 
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Jefferson3000

Expert Expediter
Hey Ann. If you are running your truck, you should get paid for hand load. If you're not sure, I'd make sure it was in the contract.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
I know E-1 takes their 38% (or whatever % it is) of everything. C&M takes a chunk... 50% of extra stops, and around 20% of liftgate and hand l/u (if that's still their cut). To their credit, however, they've always stuck to giving their trucks a good rate and fsc.

I'm not big on the company taking a huge percentage of accessorials. However, it is incentive to get those kinds of loads for their trucks. I've heard of trucks with liftgates that never got a liftgate load, or a dual axle never getting a t/t load. I've gotten out ahead of those in front of me because my company's dispatchers were on the ball, and knew my truck's assets. For that extra income, I'm very happy to share liftgate, blanket, etc. Extra stop is another story, tho. It's something that takes up extra time, but doesn't give much extra pay.
 

TeamCaffee

Administrator
Staff member
Owner/Operator
Does your LM rate change with each load, because you are on a percentage?
How do you get to see what the customer pays for FSC? Do you see their invoice?
On the sample above, ok, change the FSC to read $890 then..
so $3700 - $890 = $2810 * 70% = 1967 is your take, plus add the $890 for your flat-rate FSC = 2857? And you would see the shipper only paid $600? (As mentioned, if the amounts are not accurate, it doesn't matter, it's the calculations I'm going after)

I am not picking on FECC, so please don't think that. Not that you *are* thinking that.. just saying, I'm trying to get a grasp on how different entities do their calculations.. not really interested in exact figures.

I am just noticing different things lately, and find it quite ..... interesting.. er.. creative.. er... opportunistic.. how some of these things are getting calculated, and for the most part, most of us would never even know about it, depending on what kind of access one has to the nitty-gritty information.

We can be offered a load that pay's 2.05 all miles and the very next offer can only pay .87 all miles. That is part of the fun of the percentage pay and also the heartbreak of percentage pay. We are seeing less and less of the above 2.00 all miles pay as an Express Truck.

If we arrive at our shipper or receiver and the customer needs any type of special service they have not requested our pay will be increased. I have never asked to see a customer’s invoice so I do not know what they are charged for FSC or for the load. I have never had any need to question our pay. We are not concerned with what the customer is charged or not charged for fsc as we get the current fsc rate on all of our approved miles which include from where we deliver to our layover and from that layover to our pickup and then the loaded miles.

On our government GBL's we can see what the load pays and it looks to me as if the government is not paying fsc anymore. That is just my thoughts and not backed up by fact. FCC still pays us our fsc on all approved miles.

The percentage pay also increases the load offers that are refused. Most of ours we refuse are due to excessive DH which often drives the price down to what is unacceptable to us. We are not penalized though for the refusals and we will not lose our position on the board.
 

CharlesD

Expert Expediter
As a carrier, I usually pass 100% of most extras on to the driver. It depends on what it is. Things like detention, hand load or unload, or anything else that involves extra effort on the part of the driver should go to the driver the way I see it. These days when I'm bidding all inclusive rates on loads, it's not that easy to break it down though. If there's a dry run because of a load cancellation I pass all of that on as well because it's the driver that had to drive to the shipper for nothing. If a carrier wants to take a percentage of extras that should be spelled out in the contract.
 

soxydun

Seasoned Expediter
When we started, we signed on with a small fleet owner. Our deal was a 60/40 split on the line-haul, Empty Moves, Deadhead, detention pay, layovers. We buy fuel, so we got 100% of the fsc., 100% handload/unloads, Bonuses and Canadian crossing reimbursement. With a lift-gate truck, it was still 60/40 (after all, you still have to operate the thing).

I will say that I don't agree with them getting the Empty move $$$ and I have some qualms about the Deadhead, because we pay the fuel. But it generally worked. The problem is, when you're on a split, it makes it rough to take some bigger deadheads and moves.

We recently decided to buy our truck from the owner. I believe now, there will be very few loads we cannot turn a profit on.

As for the carrier keeping any of these charges, we haven't seen it happen. If they tell us they'll pay X amount of $$$$ for it, they almost always do, without a problem.
 

pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
Thanks to everyone who gave info on how it works for them. There are so many ways of doing things, and they all do it differently. Might all lead to the same relative amount in the end, but each carrier can make it sound like it's a bonus to do it how they do it, at least until you figure out how they're *really* doing it (the calculations, that is) :D
 

TeamCaffee

Administrator
Staff member
Owner/Operator
Each carrier has their way of doing business which is why each carrier is not for each person. Every carrier has warts which is why the more research you do before you sign on with a carrier will pay off in the end hopefully without having to jump carriers. You can never learn all the warts till you are with a company and you are never positive how you will respond to a wart until you experience the wart.

If you cannot handle a company’s warts and you can handle the stress get your own authority and go that route. Many times this also fails when a person figures out that trying to get your own freight is also a lot of work.

To each his own and to each we need to respect.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
I have seen it happen many times where drivers and owner-operators co-mingle their opinions about their self-importance, rights and/or power over a customer or carrier with the details of a carrier's compensation schedule (D-time, labor, lift gate, pad-wrap, additional stops, surcharge, etc.) In may cases, they do so in ways that work against their own best interests.

Diane and I have never cared what other people call it. We call it equipment, labor, time and money. We spend money to bring our equipment and labor to the task, in return for money paid to us.

If we arrive at a shipper and have to wait an hour before loading, so what?

If we arrive at a shipper and have to wait four hours while they prepare their freight (sometimes, the preparation process cannot begin until the truck is physically present), so what?

If we arrive at a shipper and they put the wrong freight on the truck such that we drive two hours before the error is caught and we must return for the right freight, so what?

If we use our lift gate at both ends of the load and spend a total of four hours loading, securing and unloading the freight (some very expensive White Glove freight comes in many pieces and odd shapes and requires great care), so what?

If we pick up a reefer load on Friday for a Saturday delivery that later bumps to Monday, which means the reefer will run over the weekend, so what?

If we have to deadhead 600 miles to load freight and haul it 300 miles, so what?

If we arrive for a delivery and only then discover it is an inside delivery of six pieces that requires us to park half on the sidewalk in the middle of the night and take each piece one at a time to the 16th floor, so what?

If we arrive at a shipper and discover that the 47 pieces of freight cannot be transported safely without first pad wrapping each one, so what?

If we provide labor at the pickup and delivery and our carrier keeps a percentage of the money billed to the customer for it, so what?

If we have a reefer load on that requires us to sit on it over a weekend and every four hours climb into the back of a -10 F reefer body to record a number off a device on the freight and report it to dispatch, so what?

If one load pays $1.00 a mile plus $0.65 fuel surcharge and another load pays $1.85 a mile with no fuel surcharge, and another pays $300 (three hundred) a mile with no fuel surcharge but includes detention time, and one of the loads includes liftgate work and an inside delivery, and another one has detention time built in, and another is a HAZMAT load that means you can't get your truck washed when the freight is on board, and another includes a side trip to a moving supplies store where you have to buy extra packaging for the freight,...

...SO WHAT?

Our business is to provide a truck, equipment and labor in return for money paid. As long as customers are willing to meet our price and safety is respected, we are happy to do the work.

We are not ones to quibble about what kind of labor, time or equipment is involved. At the end of the day, as long as we are fairly compensated for the equipment and labor we provide, we are pleased to provide it, even if it means getting our hands dirty and breaking sweat.

There are those who say, "I'm a driver, I don't get paid to do that." Or, "It's not fair that other people make money off what I do."

We say, we are solution providers, we earn a living by satisfying customers. We operate in partnership with our carrier, who also must be compensated, to provide a package of services that customers want.

That is not to say that we have found ourselves on loads we would have rather not been on. It is not to say that all loads are fun or go well. It is not to say that adverse developments do not sometimes come into play in a way that makes the load not worth doing once it is done. But that is not the norm. The norm is we are fairly compensated for the work we do, and we don't care what other people call it.

Just do the work and make the money.
 
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CharlesD

Expert Expediter

If you cannot handle a company’s warts and you can handle the stress get your own authority and go that route. Many times this also fails when a person figures out that trying to get your own freight is also a lot of work.



Understatement of the day there. It still beats sitting around waiting on the phone to ring.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
We say, we are solution providers, we earn a living by satisfying customers. We operate in partnership with our carrier, who also must be compensated, to provide a package of services that customers want.
But Phil you are not solution providers, but the tool that is used by the company to provide a solution. In many ways you are part of a 'turnkey' solution provider to be exact. You are not independent from FedEx, you are contracted to them to be used as they see fit. You don't bill the customer, you don't make the load arraignments or make a determination of what services you provide to the customer (i.e. freight, supply chain, custom critical) but you are the tool that they use to provide the customer with a solution.

The same goes for a partnership, your contract is not a partnership contract and you have zero vested interest in the company outside being compensated for your time. You can say that your interest is to see them gain market share but that is self-serving when you come down to it. You can not promote the company properly (they don't provide you with sales training, material or other needed resources), you can not dictate to the company what you will take to do a specific service, you can not direct services and the company makes it clear that you must maintain a level of performance in order for you to be a part of their fleet. You are an exclusive contractor to FedEx and nothing more.

The use of some words show a lack of understanding what we mean to the company. Partnerships are two way streets, where both have a vested interest in success and both have a say in what goes on. I don't mean just money either. The words solution provider is improperly used in this niche market, the independent operator is the real solution provider like the company is (FedEx, Landstar, Panther). Both the company and the independent operator can make a detemrination and provide the customer with real solutions. The guy/gal loading the truck can't, although they can provide immediate solutions for things that have to do with the details of getting it from point a to point b.
 

FIS53

Veteran Expediter
In my case I work on a percentage so the carrier gets a piece of everything charged for, waiting, cancellations, handbomb, etc. Not necessarily the fairest but a lot easier for their bookkeeping.
Rob
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
The use of some words show a lack of understanding....

So what?

Ross Perot used to tell his sales force to dress like your customers dress. I have decided to talk like my carrier talks because it seems equally wise to do so. I could care less what the words mean. It matters more what the words do. In this case, the words let my carrier and customers know I am there to provide solutions.
 
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greg334

Veteran Expediter
I have decided to talk like my carrier talks because it seems equally wise to do so. I could care less what the words mean. It matters more what the words do. In this case, the words let my carrier and customers know I am there to provide solutions.


So let me get this straight, you dont' care what words mean, words like easy to learn and failure to learn you don't care about?


Interesting.
 
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