Expediting for me? Opinions Needed!

Kyreax

Seasoned Expediter
Hi Guys, I've been lurking for a couple weeks, there's some incredible information - here's my situation:

I want to get into freight expediting because I love driving, and I want to see the country solo, and I like having my own business. I have a good amount of charisma, am highly presentable, and play well with others (e.g. Mean ol' dispatchers)

I've saved $100K and am looking to switch jobs anyway. I am a youngish business man and would like to enter a new field on a high note...no desperation here.

I have no CDL, but there is a CDL training place literally around the corner from me that charges $3900 for an 8-week tractor-trailer program.

SO, that brings me to my questions, which are now qualified by the aforementioned conditions

1. Is a budget of $50K good for a nice used 22' Expeditor?

2. Class D or C? I seem to get the idea that a D will get more load offers...correct?

3. Liftgate or no?

4. Reefer or no?

5. Can I base out of Arizona or the west coast? My home is in Tucson (100 miles from Phoenix).

6. Should I start out and lease to a big company with all of its warts (FEDEX, Panther, etc) or bite the bullet, get my own authority, and take a big fat fun risk?

7. After browsing the posts, I can't nail down what a realistic gross is for a solo O/O and what a realistic takehome could be. I know there's a lot of variables, but can we get a range or two from people here? Like, $30-70K? Higher? Lower?

Thanks for the help guys, and plan on having one more in your ranks soon.:)
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Congratulations on your financial success to date. It is a rare person who builds savings of $100,000 at a young age. The skills that helped you do that will serve you well in expditing too.

As a team drvier myself, I am reluctant to provide specific answers to your questions as the day-to-day world of solo driving is not well known to me.

One item that comes to mind, that you did not touch on, is the social realities of solo driving. You talked about your people skills. Any community of friends and family that you are now part of will be left behind when you hit the road. You can of course return home from time to time and stay in touch by telephone and internet, but that is not the same as being physically present with those you leave behind.

The hours can get long when you sit alone in a truck, away from your family and friends, waiting for something meaningful to happen. Yes, you can chat things up and talk shop with other drivers and non-drivers on the road, but that goes just so far. Being alone on the road means, at times, feeling very much alone.

For some, that is what they love about solo driving. For others, it is what they hate. What it will be for you is for you to know. Just know that being alone will be something to come to terms with as a solo expediter.
 
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LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
As already touched on, you need to determine your tolerance for alone time and away time. If you have a hobby or interest that lends itself to life in a walk in closet, such as reading or ham radio, you can occupy your down time fairly well. If your hobbies are skeet shooting and horseback riding you'll find life in a closet less satisfying.

You can base and run from anywhere you want. Just know that Tucson is going to be much more remote from the usual freight lanes than Dayton. You would likely get runs that way a little more often in an E unit but as a solo I'm not sure how often that would be.

Equipment selection. I like "unique" analogies so consider a 12 lane swimming pool. The lanes are available based on unit category, i.e. B, C, D, etc. Lane 1 is the A lane. Other than perhaps a couple of small carriers there are no A units anymore that I know of so that carries over to the B units, lanes 2 and 3. Lanes 4 and 5 are C lanes. D's get 6 and 7 and E's get 8 and 9. Lanes 10-12 are CR, DR and ER. Any unit in lanes 1-9 can operate in it's lanes and any lower numbered as well. The R units can operate in their lane plus any R lane to their left plus any regular lanes for their category and smaller. That means a C has 5 options and a D has 7 options for opportunities to swim.

A truck with a liftgate will get opportunities unavailable to a truck without. Whether there will be enough to justify the liftgate depends on the carrier. It is hundreds of pounds of dead weight that cuts your fuel mileage and your maximum payload at all times. While you get the job that requires it you may also lose the job that's 600 pounds too heavy for your truck that's hauling around an 800 pound liftgate. I know it's not a linear factor but if it were that extra 2.5% weight would result in 2.5% lower mpg as well.

A reefer unit is a very large additional expense, along with higher operating costs. It does generate more revenue however I don't think a nice used truck with a good reefer setup would be in your price range. You certainly could get a good condition dry freight truck for that amount.

That said, rather than jumping into a truck purchase I'd suggest looking for a fleet owner to drive for for at least the first 6 months or so. You may not make as much as you will in your own truck however there are other factors to look at. Your $50k can be earning interest rather than being tied up in a depreciating piece of equipment. At the end of 6 months, if you want to continue, you'll have enough experience to at least have your pump primed rather than starting dry. You'll have a better idea of what you want in a truck and sleeper. Most importantly, if you decide you don't want to do this long term, you have your full $50k plus growth instead of the depreciated value of a more used truck. If you do choose to get out at that point, the lower income is offset by those factors and perhaps creates a better bottom line number.

Good luck.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I agree, run for an owner for AT LEAST 6 months. We ran with one for 2 years before we bought our own truck. The lift gate is a must. Pays for itself fast. The reefer is a toss up. I am not sure if I would spec a reefer truck. Ours is but we bought it used and it came that way. I would also consider how you might team drive, way more work for teams. We like the big companies. We run for FedEx. I guess you could make more on your own but we like having the FedEx name behind our business. They are a bit more well known than our one truck business is. Layoutshooter
 

fastman_1

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I'll say the "D" Unit is the best unit to make money with, now if you happen to have one with a Liftgate and a Reefer Unit and living where you do, and after you took the advice and drove for a o/o For at least 6 months and you still Love this Business, then Lease your Truck to one of the Big Companys, FedEx or Perhaps Landstar. These Companys have a Truly Nastionwide Customer Base. I wish you all the Luck, It's gona take Hard Work but the Rewards are Worth it.
 

pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
Welcome to the forum!

Being also new to this industry, we can't and won't advise you, but wanted to share another newbie's perspective.

You are fortunate to have found this site before you leap! And you're right, there's some incredible information here! We found it after the fact, and even then, much of what we read for the first while was over our heads at the time. I believe it takes about 6 months to even learn the questions to ask, nevermind the answers! You know the saying that goes something like.. 'you don't know what you don't know...'

For us, it was kinda like this.. this is the great business we jumped into,.. ah, so *this* is how things *really* are in this business,.. well, this is how we know things could and should be run so much better,.. hey, let's go on our own becuz we can do it that much better for ourselves,.. oh but wait, what about this,.. and what about that,.. and how much time is that *really* going to require,.. and how much is that *really* going to cost if we're on our own,.. hmmm, perhaps a bit more experience in running with another carrier would be beneficial first before considering doing it on our own..

What I'm trying to say is.. it might appear to be an easy career, it might appear to be good money, it might appear that we have all the appropriate traits and amenities to succeed, there might appear to be easy solutions for others' problems and failings.. but as with anything, experience rules.

There have been posts about less expensive ways in which to get your CDL, discussions regarding which kind of trucks are the most versatile, disreputable carriers, which areas are more lively for getting loads, *realistic* average miles that might be offered vs. the different pay schedules, and the price of fuel, etc. Be sure to examine these posts, not just one but many of them, and be sure to do the math!

There have been many recent posts about how this is a bad time for this industry, slower economic times, too many drivers, companies continuing to hire drivers when they've already got too many, things not always being what they're supposed to be, etc.

You will also have read some suggestions to newbies to become a driver first, before you leap in and buy your own truck. I have to agree with this opinion.

Seems to me that people seem to be in a rush to get into this industry (including ourselves), perhaps becuz they think the potential income is greater as an OO than as a driver? Perhaps they think that every day spent considering their options is another day wasted without the income they could be generating? I don't think anyone considers that it *could* be another day paying the expenses without the income to offset it! :eek:While it might be true that OOs can make more than a driver, the risk and depreciation involved probably don't make up for the potentially greater income, at least not right away when you're new.

Considering you have money behind you, you will undoubtedly be able to survive. However, depending on how much you spend on your truck, training, start-up costs, and whether you choose to pay for your truck outright, or have a truck payment, and whether you are also supporting a home somewhere and all its expenses, you may find yourself dipping into your savings more than you might think or like.

And even if you buy your truck outright and have no payments, it doesn't last forever, it will need to be replaced at some point. To me, you have to consider that money you spend, which you won't be getting back when the truck is finished. Altho I'm not intelligent enough to understand the ROI that has been discussed in these boards recently, for me to simplify it to a point where it makes sense for *me*, I look at it like this: say purch price is 50K(low?), say it lasts 6 yrs(high?).. so I divide 50000/72 months = 700/month. Of course, that doesn't include interest you would've received on the money had it been invested, and it doesn't include whatever value the truck has at the end of the 6 yrs. Like I said, I simplified it for *myself*, so please, nobody beat me up for this! My thoughts only! What I'm saying is that even if you might not have a truck payment per se, you still have to consider the monies put out, over the length of the term in which it will last. This isn't like buying property, where the value is *supposed* to go UP, and would be as valuable as ever when it's time to get out of the biz, or upgrade to a larger home!

If you start out driving for an experienced owner, you will likely have the opportunity to begin making money right away, as opposed to the slower start you might experience as a new and unknown OO who hasn't proven himself yet.

Many carriers won't even look at you anyway, unless you have at least 6 months of commercial driving experience under your belt. You would be able to see first-hand how things work, what kind of trucks get the kind of loads you would want, what the expenses are *really* like, how hard you would have to run to make the kind of money you want to make, what areas are no good for getting loads, what kind of tools and accessories would be of value to you in your business and whether they're worth their price to you, how much deadheading is involved, what attributes you would look for in a carrier.. and all at someone else's expense and risk, while you continue to be paid for your learning experience.

After 6 months, you will be a more viable candidate for a respectable carrier to consider, you will know the questions to ask, and you will have a much better handle on realistic goals and expectations for your own business.

Even if you are now positive this is the career for you, you will have the security of an 'out', should you change your mind after living it for awhile, and your capital will still be intact. If you choose not to pursue this in the end, you will only be out a few months of your time, a small price in comparison to what you could lose the other way.

Phew! That was a long one!

Anyway, best wishes to you in making the best decision for yourself, and good luck!
 
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Kyreax

Seasoned Expediter
Re:Thanks so far :)

Firstly, thanks to ATeam, LDB, Layoutshooter, fastman_1, and pjjjjj for the quick responses. You guys are great, and you're pleasant people. Much appreciated.

It seems that operating for someone else is a smart move to start. I'll give it a few months after I finish my CDL and then branch out on my own. My only expense is a mortgage though, but will I be able to make enough doing that to last very long with someone else? There's savings, of course, but I'd like to keep my moolah and make it grow instead of disappear into another owner's pocket.

Considering where I am (Arizona/California) - will it help me more to get the liftgate and class D truck to survive out here? i.e. - more loads available in a thin delivery area to begin with? I would imagine the reefer would be of help in the 120 degree desert as well...just to be "that guy" who can do any load.

I DO have a 16' Mitsubishi FUSO boxtruck with a 1600 lb liftgate right now that I have been doing local deliveries with for 3 years now as my own business (but no CDL), would this count towards any of that "commercial driving" experience you're talking about or is it strictly CDL stuff that counts? I noticed FEDEX will sign an inexperienced newbie O/O with an aproved "driver training" course. What's that?

Oh and I really like that analogy about the swimming pool and the "available lanes" for the trucks. It clears things up quite a bit. BUT:

What the heck is a "CR" or a CD"? Is that Refrigerated?

Do you guys run as an LLC for liability's sake or just private owner companies for simplicity?
 
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greg334

Veteran Expediter
I have no CDL, but there is a CDL training place literally around the corner from me that charges $3900 for an 8-week tractor-trailer program.

If you go this route, it is best that you may want to get some tractor time in first with someone else as a lead driver. I say this for a number of reasons that have to do with direct mentoring on the equipment and your driving habits. I think we sell all of the newbies short for not recommending it and most will not agree with me but it allows people to grow, not to just put them out there on the road. It also allows you to get a feel for the real life.

Direct answers for you questions.
1. Is a budget of $50K good for a nice used 22' Expeditor?
Yes, realistically speaking there are more trucks out there than there are owners. I would take purchasing a truck outright by going through the proper steps and getting mechanics involved. Do the dyno, do the ecm dump, do the oil analysis, drive the truck if you can get a Vis Check (chassis analysis). You don’t have to buy new to find a good dependable truck.

2. Class D or C? I seem to get the idea that a D will get more load offers...correct?
There are so many discussions about this but here is what I think, you want to be versatile and be able to move around. If you only want to work for FedEx and only FedEx then by all means get a C unit, other wise stick to as large a truck as you can find.

Also don’t, do not look at the sleeper but the box and payload capacity when looking.

3. Liftgate or no?
Yes Lift gate if it has it on the truck, other wise you can pick up deals on lift gates down the road.

4. Reefer or no?
No, for a few reasons, the up keep on them is costly – I know. The justification is not there unless you have more than 40% of your runs are reefer runs or you are WG (FedEx). If the truck you find has one on it, great, take it to the dealer (carrier for carrier, TK for TK) and have it checked out.

5. Can I base out of Arizona or the west coast? My home is in Tucson (100 miles from Phoenix).
Well this is where I stress getting some tractor time in, because I really don’t know but if you have versatile skills and the expediting thing does not work out, there is a lot of tractor work. Beside you can also expedite in a tractor.

6. Should I start out and lease to a big company with all of its warts (FEDEX, Panther, etc) or bite the bullet, get my own authority, and take a big fat fun risk?
Don’t go down the Authority path just yet, get your feet wet and established in how this all works. I would look around, don’t convince yourself that contracting with Panther or FedEx is the way to go but look at all the companies. I would also say look at the posts here on EO and seek out the ones who run with small companies. I seem to think right now the smaller companies are actually doing quite well opposed to the larger ones.

7. After browsing the posts, I can't nail down what a realistic gross is for a solo O/O and what a realistic takehome could be. I know there's a lot of variables, but can we get a range or two from people here? Like, $30-70K? Higher? Lower?
Ah…. I would put any goals for a solo at $60k gross but expect less at this point, it is a horrible time to get into this business.


I would recommend that you first examine your situation, your needs and your liabilities before you decide on any targets. When you set your goals, set an exit strategy and than set a firm limit on the amount of saving you will use for the business.

The trick, to me at least, is not to chase the high dollar freight but to keep the truck moving. Don’t look at weekly revenue, monthly is better.

I also (yes again) recommend you have a lawyer and an accountant to look at incorporation or other ways of general protection. Let them advise you per your personal situaiton which path to go down with the business structure.



Cr unit is a reefer C unit.

Hope this helps.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Re: Thanks so far :)

pjjjj, Excellent post!

CR, DR and ER refer to the refrigerated version of each size truck. They will gain loads when temp control is needed. They will lose loads because the thick insulation in the side walls makes the load floor narrower and fewer skids will fit. Like the liftgate, it's another coin that has two sides. Heads you win, tails you lose. It will come up both ways at different times.

Some folks will tell you go for maximum floor spots. Some will say go for maximum options like temp control, etc.. Some will say go with a lean piece of equipment that's most economical to operate. Every one of them is right and wrong. Sometimes their suggested equip will be perfect and others it won't be suitable.

While you're working on your CDL, try to read back at least a year in the general, newbies and recruiter sections. You'll learn a lot as well as learn a lot more to question.
 

Kyreax

Seasoned Expediter
Geez, there's so much good information to be gleaned from all of your years of experience. Im absorbing it all like a noob sea sponge.

Thanks for the quick posts!

Ok then, here's another one: ~ $60K gross was quoted above for a solo op. I understand that the money is slim these days out there, but how the heck do you take home enough to make it work? If a truck payment is $1-1.5K + and then add in fuel, maintenance, food, taxes...um, is there anything even left when you're done?

Someone, maybe it was ATeam, had posted the "average" solo O/O for Fedex CC was around $70K gross, but maybe I misread that, or maybe times have changed quite a bit since that post.

A clarification, please: There was a mention of getting on with a company that would be larger to truly cover coast to coast and perhaps AZ/CA/OR/WA. If my understanding is correct, most of these freight lanes are in the midwest and East.

Why is that? One would think there's some sort of time-critical demand for Expediting in the West (Phoenix, LA, San Fran, Seattle). There's plenty of money and people out here.
 

kwexpress

Veteran Expediter
if you have been driving a 16' box truck and you plan on staying in a straight then why not just find someone to let you use there straight to take the drive test and save the 3800

I have a class A myself and it cost me $200 in florida to go to an outside testing facility and use there semi and trailer to take the test.

truck driving schools are over rated and really not needed for straight truck work
 

Kyreax

Seasoned Expediter
if you have been driving a 16' box truck and you plan on staying in a straight then why not just find someone to let you use there straight to take the drive test and save the 3800

I have a class A myself and it cost me $200 in florida to go to an outside testing facility and use there semi and trailer to take the test.

truck driving schools are over rated and really not needed for straight truck work

Hey, I didn't even think about that. Sort of a self study thing. So, is a class A CDL for semis exclusively or anything over a certain Gross Weight / Axle # ?
 

MCBuggyCo

Seasoned Expediter
A clarification, please: There was a mention of getting on with a company that would be larger to truly cover coast to coast and perhaps AZ/CA/OR/WA. If my understanding is correct, most of these freight lanes are in the midwest and East.

Why is that? One would think there's some sort of time-critical demand for Expediting in the West (Phoenix, LA, San Fran, Seattle). There's plenty of money and people out here.

The Midwest and the East are where the factories are mostly located.
 

pellgrn

Expert Expediter
Don't know about A.Z but in I.L you can get a CDL with a Hazmat by taking a written test and a ride around the block in the van.That lic wil let ya drive anything under 16,000 GVW,ya can take that and run a van yours or someone who's leased to a carrier and see if you want to continue to upgrade your lic.The HAZ will also have a extra fee for fingerprinting and background check,i think mine was 80bucks 4yrs ago.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I would not be paying any attention to revenue numbers from 05-06.
Freight was more plentiful and much lower fuel prices at that time.
I would talk to some drivers and get figures from the last 6 months, not several years ago.
 

Jefferson3000

Expert Expediter
1. Is a budget of $50K good for a nice used 22' Expeditor?
Yes, but I wouldn't worry about buying your own just yet. I've talked to people on EO who are selling their truck after only owning them for two months. Reason? Just turned out that being on the road and coping with slow days and/or weeks just wasn't for them. Drive for a fleet owner for a year and keep saving. You'll learn the ropes without having to make the investment. Just because you have it to spend, doesn't mean you should.

2. Class D or C? I seem to get the idea that a D will get more load offers...correct?
I have a small C but am upgrading to a D as we speak. I've driven a B as well. Times are changing and right now, I think a D for general use would be the most useful to keep you moving.

3. Liftgate or no?
It can only help.

4. Reefer or no?
IMO, no. Not in these days. Too much investment for the amount of return.

5. Can I base out of Arizona or the west coast? My home is in Tucson (100 miles from Phoenix).Yes you can. Just plan on being out a little longer at a spin than the folks who pass their house in Ohio every week. More freight is east of the Mississippi, but never say can't.

6. Should I start out and lease to a big company with all of its warts (FEDEX, Panther, etc) or bite the bullet, get my own authority, and take a big fat fun risk?Start out by contracting w/ fleet owner who is leased out to a big or small carrier. (Big isn't always better.) See #1 again for details.

7. After browsing the posts, I can't nail down what a realistic gross is for a solo O/O and what a realistic takehome could be. I know there's a lot of variables, but can we get a range or two from people here? Like, $30-70K? Higher? Lower? Someone with a carrier you are interested in can help, as well as a recruiter. But that's secondary right now in the discussion.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Just utterly amazing..... well I got to say it, how does teams figure out what solos are making? I leave it there.....

Look $60k was last years goal for me, I have other things I worry about. I came short by 7 grand but that was because of the times I sat while everyone else moved - no not being sarcastic.

Realistically speaking, that would also be a goal for this year with fuel hitting $4.15 a gallon, and going up. If you think that you can make more and fall short, you may be disappointed, so I say it is better to shoot low and celebrate later, you know what I mean.

Leo made a great point about reefer box, mine is tight with two large skids and tonight with what I have on, I wish I had just a plain old box.

I got to say this, and I really hope newbies take this seriously. We are in a changing market. In this next year, we may see fuel get to $5 a gallon and come back down to $4 - who knows. But if I was starting out, I would do what I posted, I would get more skills under my belt and not limit myself to just a class B CDL with only straight truck experience.

Versatility is the key to success. We can all speak of all the equipment in the world but if your skills are limited, so is your potential.
 

Kyreax

Seasoned Expediter
OK, thanks again for all the quick posts and great information. You guys seem like you're very willing to keep me out of trouble and that means a lot to me. Most Forums are full of negative posters, this seems to be the exception!

So here's what I've gleaned as a Solo Newbie to Expediting:

1. Get CDL-A with Hazmat to keep my options wide open. Try to get it for cheaper than $3500 at a trucking school.

2. Work for another O/O for at least 6 months to learn if I actually even like doing this, and to get a handle on the ins-and-outs on someone else's dime/truck/risk.

3. If I'm not absolutely insane by then, buy a nice but affordable and well-maintained used Class D truck with a liftgate (to be able to haul the most loads) and lease it to a company. Be nice to dispatchers, don't burn bridges with companies under any circumstances. Keep my eyes and ears open to new ideas.

4. Set expectations low, keep overhead low, keep asking questions until I can make some money. Do the job for fun and the love of the road, everything else is just gravy after that.

5. Profit?:rolleyes:

If I missed anything, feel free to chime in;)
 
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