Even the Russians See it....

[Tennesseahawk]

I really disagree with the poster in this thread....you can quote me if I'm wrong 15 years from now. I believe our country will survive this economic turndown. As I have heard on CNN on my sat radio, we are going from an industry based country, to a country that sells other goods. In the mid 70's GM employed as many as 600,000 people. after downsizing they will be less than 75,000 (if my numbers are correct) I also believe there is a great need for some kind of government supported healthcare, but noone is sure on how to do it. This country's healthcare costs are astronomical. If we could get some relief on prescription drug prices, doctor visits, there would be more money for us Americans to spend on other things. We should invest in technology as this will lead to other markets which will create jobs.

And what are you willing to give up to get it, Fall? If the Big 3 have taught us anything, is that when the money and ingenuity doesn't get put into a product, quality suffers. Medicine is no different. The government will pick and choose what is good medicine for YOU. I prefer not to get put into that situation, myself.

 

[Falligator]

And what are you willing to give up to get it, Fall? If the Big 3 have taught us anything, is that when the money and ingenuity doesn't get put into a product, quality suffers. Medicine is no different. The government will pick and choose what is good medicine for YOU. I prefer not to get put into that situation, myself.

It really isn't what I'm willing to give up....it's what we've all given up already. With the government (us taxpayers) owning 60% of GM or as it was politically stated (government motors) shouldn't or couldn't ol' Uncle Sam use the profits from these aquisitions down the road to help fix the mess we're in. Let us not forget that we are getting interest on the bank's 700billion bailout (which I am completely against) why not bail out the little guy??? I mean...the government is going to get some money back, or are they going to fix the social security mess we are in which is scheduled to run dry in 2032?

 

[tallcal101]

Hey Hawk,thanks for the warped twist to your compliment,I take that as a real confirmation I'm getting through.For you of all people, to charectorize my astoudingly high batting average of things to come for the last 5 years as "warped" brings a whole new meaning to the word.Please confirm what I predicted on the horizon with accuracy has been close to the way it's all unfolded. Leave Leo the lion's rediculous banter out of the equation as it's just the paranoid rantings of a squealing zealot.

I have been a Japanese/ German car buyer for the last 20 years.Detroit steel has been a turn off for several reasons,paticualrly after I got 400,000 mile out of my 87 Honda.The next Honda was 375,000 etc.I just like the way BMW's handle and they are fairly reliable if maintained well.
The beamer is in the shop getting brakes today so I rented a brand new Silverado.Besides it's apparent lack of of steel or even stainless steel chrome in exchange for plastic and polymar,it's a gas guzzler supreme. But I do get why the big belt buckle crowd would waste their money on one. Sits high in the saddle and looks real mean in the rear view mirror of the multitude of Asian cars running around.Typical Amercan thing,look tough and rugged then wimper when the factory job go's bye bye and they can't make the payments and their man hood is jeapordized.
So,there you have it .GMC builds trucks for the big belt buckle crowd,have for years,and their cars are good for about 125,000 before the plastic melts.Houston,we have a problem.
I think GM executives need a lobotomy and casteration. The 100 billion can't change stupidity.Not sure what the people who bought the rediculous John Melloncamp and Bob Seeger macho sales pitch need,perhaps the same as the car makers. Or maybe,just maybe,the tax payers to force their hand to get off their schtick and start competing.Otherwise,they simply don't get it and never will.
Can't wait to get out of the plastic fantastic and back in my dieter mobile.

 

[chefdennis]

Fall i'd love to believe the US was going to let go of GM and let them become a profitable company again...but I and more educated people then me just don't see it happening. Once the gov gets in, they will dicate what cars are built and how, they have already started. They illegally fired the GM president, they dictated the settlement terms and FORCED this illegally structured fast track BK and screwed over the bondholder and stockholder with illegal ignoring contract law. They threatened hedgefund and bondolders to settle with both Chysler and GM.

Thegovernment now has mandated emission and mileage mandates that will require the companies to build cars like those that are driven in japan, small death traps that the american people won't buy until they are forced to by higher taxs and fuel prices imposed 1st by this garbage "cap and trade tax" and then by penalty taxes for not buying the small stuff and then the mandates to remove the use of cars and truck that are not able to get thoer mandated mileage and emisson stds. Gm will never recover, they will be supported by the government to keep the union jobs and votes alive for the next 50 yrs as we have done with Amtrack for 30 yrs, which was also suppose to be "short term", because we didn't want to run a railroad.....

As for moving from a manufacturing base to selling products....where have you been, we have been exporting manufacturing for yrs , we have almost no manufacturing except the auto industry and GM has already stated in their restructuring plans and barry is quite aware of it, that they will build close to 50% of what the sell here overseas for close to the next 5 yrs.....I live in toldeo, ohio, we have one of the worlds largest sloar panel manufacturer companies building panels in wood county ohio, the epa has put such tight restrictions on them that it is becoming hard for them to stay here because of how sand is turned to silica...and then you look at the man made shortage of silica type sand (agian because of epa mandates) sooner then you think we will be buying those "green alternative energy" panels from japan and korea and germany....I thought we were suppose to be getting millions of "new green jobs"......

No we don't build too much anymore, and without a strong manufacturing base, no economy can survive over time...when they try, they turn to the government to keep them alive....oh wait, thats where we are now....

Healthcare, the oil industry, total control of the banking industry instead of the piece meal way they are doing it now...those are the next issues that you will have the government running for you and it will continue from there, more handouts from the government, more control of the people, finally the collapse of the system as we know it.....think it can't happen, do a google search on the weimar republic...we are following it step by step.....sure there will be recoveries, but in the mid term, not even the long term, the collapse takes over......

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Hey Hawk,thanks for the warped twist to your compliment,I take that as a real confirmation I'm getting through.For you of all people, to charectorize my astoudingly high batting average of things to come for the last 5 years as "warped" brings a whole new meaning to the word.Please confirm what I predicted on the horizon with accuracy has been close to the way it's all unfolded. Leave Leo the lion's rediculous banter out of the equation as it's just the paranoid rantings of a squealing zealot.

I have been a Japanese/ German car buyer for the last 20 years.Detroit steel has been a turn off for several reasons,paticualrly after I got 400,000 mile out of my 87 Honda.The next Honda was 375,000 etc.I just like the way BMW's handle and they are fairly reliable if maintained well.
The beamer is in the shop getting brakes today so I rented a brand new Silverado.Besides it's apparent lack of of steel or even stainless steel chrome in exchange for plastic and polymar,it's a gas guzzler supreme. But I do get why the big belt buckle crowd would waste their money on one. Sits high in the saddle and looks real mean in the rear view mirror of the multitude of Asian cars running around.Typical Amercan thing,look tough and rugged then wimper when the factory job go's bye bye and they can't make the payments and their man hood is jeapordized.
So,there you have it .GMC builds trucks for the big belt buckle crowd,have for years,and their cars are good for about 125,000 before the plastic melts.Houston,we have a problem.
I think GM executives need a lobotomy and casteration. The 100 billion can't change stupidity.Not sure what the people who bought the rediculous John Melloncamp and Bob Seeger macho sales pitch need,perhaps the same as the car makers. Or maybe,just maybe,the tax payers to force their hand to get off their schtick and start competing.Otherwise,they simply don't get it and never will.
Can't wait to get out of the plastic fantastic and back in my dieter mobile.

I agree with your assessment of foreign cars, particularly Japanese. It also gives me pride that the one I drive was built primarily in America, with American parts, unlike their 'American' counterparts.

But doesn't it make you wonder what the difference is between the two? American cars - an inferior product, with parts and the actual cars built in Mexico. Japanese cars - a superior car with parts and cars built in the USA. Don't think too hard... (hint) you and I buy cars built in 'right to work' states.

Having said that, I will NEVER purchase a Government Motors product! I'd be surprised if you do as well. Being that there is no accountability in our government, what would make anyone in their right mind believe their cars (or healthcare) would be any different?

 

[tallcal101]

I'll never say never Hawk. And I agree,Hondas built in TN are Ok with me,it's never been about where their built. Another thing is the UAW has had the big wrench with the big three and don't carry as big a stick around the Japanese plants. No stick around some.

I have a soft place in my soul for the 64 GTO,I owned one,as well as a Covair Spyder,now that was a scary go cart.Got it air borne a few times with it's fiber glass trunk in the front. A VW it was not!! So how can you hate the company that brought us these beauties.Nader may have been right about the Corvair,but you can't proof it by me.

You and I know how many industries and lives would be effected by GM going down.Hell,it helped me support my expedite business for 6 years.I understand the reason it can't fail purely from an economic persepctive,if in fact the argument is valid. Not sure it is,but a lot of suffereing would be in store on a massive scale if the it went down. This mess that we are in has no easy answers,I'm hard hit like never before after 30 years in the moving business.I don't blindly support every thing thats being done by any means.California has a Numi plant right down the highway from my office,and a plant closier would devistate 3 east bay cities. Since the money is being spent,and nobody wins if this is a failure,I hope they will come up with a product that I would buy.This won't be the first or the last company or bank we as tax payers are part owners of. But it was a combination of feeding Americans gas guzzlers and marketing them like crazy with billions spent on advertising and Americans willingness to put on the blinders that got us here. There is plenty of blame and now plenty of pain to go around. Maybe if Americans learned that cars and trucks are not a measure of their prominance and importance ( let the rap artisits and athletes buy this junk)) we might start building cars for the people.Yes,it may sound like Hitler,but Honda had the right idea and it worked out pretty well for them.
See,I can be reasonable when the attack dogs are leashed.Warped,I like it,and I would have to admit to a slight case from time to time. I goota work and get off this ****ed site!

 

[DougTravels]

Ooook. You've never seen my posts with any substance? It makes me wonder if you actually READ the posts, or just see who's posting and quote them with generic ridicule. Show us your broad opinion, Witness. Put some meat and potatoes in your words!

Your posts almost always have substance!







Steamy












Smelly















Sometimes there is even corn!
















Yes lets call it substance, much nicer





















AND IT TYPES!!

 

[Steady Eddie]

Ooook. You've never seen my posts with any substance? It makes me wonder if you actually READ the posts, or just see who's posting and quote them with generic ridicule. Show us your broad opinion, Witness. Put some meat and potatoes in your words!

Maybe that Mr. G is back?