Even Carriers are having a hard time filling jobs.

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I think any carrier basically walks a tightrope when dealing with drivers and fleet owners because they are independent contractors rather than outright employees. If a pay dispute arises, they would in most cases have to deal with who owns the truck(s).
Kind of the same if a problem develops between a driver and a fleet owner. A carrier would be pretty limited as to what level they can get involved. Very similar to other industries like construction. They use quite a few subcontractors.
 

JohnMueller

Moderator
Staff member
Motor Carrier Executive
Safety & Compliance
Carrier Management
What a great thread this has turned out to be. The Expedite community has discussed every thing from filling jobs, CSA scores, driver turnover and recruiters not sharing company information. I just had to jump in and comment from the safety and recruiting side of a Carrier.

In my opinion, these are things that I see happening within the trucking and Expedite industry:

Driver shortage - there is a driver shortage, and will will continue to get worse. As the current driver population ages and retires, less and less young people are entering our industry to drive trucks. This is because first they must usually be at least 21 years old to even get a CDL. By the time they graduate from high school, they have three years into another profession or school. They are reluctant to leave the time invested into either. This problem is compounded if the potential driver must wait till 23 years of age to drive, leaving behind a potential 5 year investment. Today, many younger folks seem to not be willing to be away from home, or willing to meet the demands of a truck driving position - there are too many alternatives that are less demanding. A sense of entitlement is also much more evident in today's work environment. Not too many folks seem to be willing to "work their way up" to a certain level, instead choosing to believe that because so and so gets paid this amount, than I should too. Not every company can offer or match every "perk" or pay of every other trucking company, there are always "opportunity costs", and I believe that everything typically comes out in the wash.

Driver Quality - again, not every driver is a professional driver. Just as not every Pro football player is the same. Some are standouts and some just make the grade. Pay and perks are different based on performance. When looking at the hiring process we (the carrier) see drivers with various levels of violations on their PSP reports just as we see on MVR's. Finding the driver with the perfectly spotless MVR and PSP is like finding a needle in a haystack (or like Bob and Linda applying to your company :) ). Most professional drivers will have a blemish on their MVR and a blemish on their PSP. Face it, you are out driving 20 times more than the person that sits behind the desk. Drivers, please know that you do have a right to obtain your PSP report. It is NOT going to show you the "points" that are associated with the violations on your report. You will need to compute those yourself. Know that recent violations are weighted three (3) times as much as older violations. Read up on PSP Pre-Employment Screening Program: FAQ Know that carriers sort through all the garbage on both MVR and PSP. Our main obejective is to be able to testify in a court of law why we hired any particular driver should that driver have an accident. Most carriers only want to place the safest drivers in trucks bearing the company signs.

Driver Turnover - I think any great Carrier will tell you their driver turnover rate - ours at PTL is 14.5% a year! Yes, I am very proud of that. Keep in mind that many factors beyond the Carrier's control affect the turnover rate. An example is the Contractor that signs on one day and leaves the next without a reason.

Driver vs. Contractor - When a driver operates a vehicle for a fleet owner, that driver is an employee or contractor of that fleet owner, not the Carrier company. That is why most carriers will not deal with issues with the driver for a fleet owner. Please do not think that you, the driver, are not important to that carrier. The carrier must maintain the proper relationship with the driver (especially for workers comp and IRS issues in particular). We do care about the drivers for fleet owners - you are just as important as any other member of the team.

Rates - I have never worked in Operations at any Carrier, I am only versed on safety, regulatory compliance, recruiting, insurance work and all the other dry, boring, technical aspects of the trucking industry. Even so, I hear that many of our contractors are presently getting paid above their contract rates to haul freight. I think given the current conditions - a shortage of trucks (Straight trucks and Tractors) and a shortage of drivers, you WILL see rates continue to rise. As rates rise, so should driver pay.

Hope this generates better understanding of your carrier.

Thanks,
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
If that kind of behavior isn't dishonest, it will do until the real thing comes along. Thanks for the heads-up, it gives a potential driver something to think about before signing on.
Well, it wasn't designed to be dishonest, misleading or anything else. It's just where the policies have taken it. Don't get me wrong, they can be dishonest (like layover pay that won't get mentioned for a Friday pickup for Monday delivery on a 250 miles run that has 2 days layover in it, and then when you mention it they'll say no layover, so you turn it down and magically they suddenly notice 1 day, then you turn that down and suddenly the second day will appear), but for the most part they aren't dishonest. It's just the polices they have in place make things far too adversarial considering everyone is supposed to be working together on the same team.

Once you know the rules and policies, and how they all work together, you can do just fine there. But that's also where the van driver, driving for a fleet owner, is behind the eight ball. Panther puts warm bodies into the fleet vans without detailing some of the policies, because those polices are money issues that only the owner deals with. So they have a fleet full of drivers splitting van revenue and not really even understanding how things work. That creates a higher turnover rate than at most carriers.
 

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
If big carriers are reading this stuff, it should be a wakeup call. IMHO, print this data and put it in one of those trucker magazines.
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
In my opinion, these are things that I see happening within the trucking and Expedite industry:

Driver shortage - there is a driver shortage, and will will continue to get worse.

Excellent post John! I agree with everything you said, except the above. I do agree that there is a driver shortage. There has always been a driver shortage, well at least since I started in the trucking industry. But it is a contrived shortage, similar to gasoline shortages.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
If big carriers are reading this stuff, it should be a wakeup call. IMHO, print this data and put it in one of those trucker magazines.

You assume they truly want to reduce turnover significantly - maybe they don't. Because if they really truly wanted to, they'd have done it already, IMO. Maybe the tax benefits of recruiting are much better than retention? :confused:
 

xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
The fallacy that turnover is cheaper than retention is nothing more than cb radio chatter. It has no base in reality.

Sent from my Fisher Price ABC123 via EO Forums
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
I don't gots a CB, so I don't know from CB chatter - nor do I know what the reason for the turnover problem is, which is why I phrased it as a question. I do believe it would have been reduced already if the carriers wanted it, though.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
The fallacy that turnover is cheaper than retention is nothing more than cb radio chatter. It has no base in reality.

I'm not so sure about that. A common figure cited is that it costs a carrier $5,000 to bring in a new driver. I have seen higher numbers too but $5,000 seems to be the frequently cited one. But for the sake of discussion, let's go with $7,500.

If a carrier has a 100 percent per year turnover, that means the carrier must pay an extra $7,500 a year per truck in recruiting expenses to keep drivers in their trucks. $7,500 a year works out to $625 per month before taxes or $0.08 (rounded) per mile extra pay on 100,000 miles driven per year.

Now, if that money was offered to an existing driver as a retention bonus, would that be enough to make him or her stay? It might seem so on the surface. An extra $625 per month is nothing to sneeze at for a solo driver, but when drivers leave, how often is it really about the money?

Drivers leave because they don't get enough home time, or they get crappy loads, or they get treated poorly or unfairly by their dispatcher, or their pay got messed up, or their company truck is junk, or they are pressured to drive on a hot log, or they are prohibited from bending the rules so they can drive on a hot log, or they want to go deer hunting and the easiest way to do that is quit and get hired someplace else after the buck is hanging in the tree, or because someone at the truck stop lunch counter told him about the $10,000 a month he is making on a dedicated run at another company, or because - again - he ran out of money at the casino and this time the carrier is refusing to give him an advance, or, or, or, etc.

Retention is not about the money alone. In fact, I would suggest that retention is about the money last. Other issues influence a driver's decision to stay or leave, and to address them might require considerable changes in the company culture at considerable expense.

It also might require a carrier to hire better-quality drivers; people who have the intellectual capacity to see the big picture and the emotional maturity to think things through before storming off to another carrier because his dispatcher could not suddenly get him home so he could tend to his new girlfriend who is crying about missing him; and who has enough basic business skills to see, when his driver manager shows him on paper, how he will do better if he takes one "bad" load to get him to the next three good loads.

But bringing people like that into the industry in large numbers would require a pay boost much greater than $7,500 a year.

Inertia force being what it is, it could very well be that a large carrier finds it much easier and less expensive to keep their trucks running by turning over their entire driver force every year than to do what it takes culturally and financially to to hire "good" drivers and retain them.

If a carrier has 100 trucks, a $7,500 per year retention bonus that probably won't work anyway becomes a $7.5 million expense for the carrier. Better and cheaper it may seem to hire a couple more recruiters instead or offer $1,000 signing bonuses, only some of which will be paid because the drivers will leave before being there long enough to collect them.

Now, having said all this, I want to add that everything above is pure speculation on my part. I don't work at the carrier level and never have. I'll leave it to others to say if I am right or wrong about this.
 
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ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
The fallacy that turnover is cheaper than retention is nothing more than cb radio chatter. It has no base in reality.

You are a former dispatcher with in-house experience. Can you elaborate on this? What is the reality?
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
.08 cents per mile would be a 20-25% pay increase at most TL carriers.
Turnover will always be high because drivers are nomadic by nature. Thats why they became drivers.
Back in the day changing jobs was a bigger deal. Often changing carriers meant losing senority,which meant money,premium shifts,better vacation slots,etc.
In the truckload sector, and expediting,changing jobs often means going from one mediocre situation to another.
How many on here have switched jobs and feel they've only jumped from the frying pan into the fire ?
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
The fallacy that turnover is cheaper than retention is nothing more than cb radio chatter. It has no base in reality.

It all depends on the carrier and its business plan. Compare Load One to Panther. Two different companies. Two different business plans. Which one do you think has a higher turnover rate and why?

Some truckload carriers have a turnover rate approaching 150%, whereas less than truckload carriers have a much lower turnover rate.
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
LTL carriers still have the previously mentioned benefits of senority, and there are benefits that are hard to replace if you leave the LTL sector.
When my first child was born my out of pocket at the hospital was $6.
 

blizzard2014

Veteran Expediter
Driver
and as the economy gets better...the part timers will move into a more conventional job...like punching a clock...who in their right mind wants to put in all these hours and government aggrievation for little money...
speaking from the CV market....I can't wait for the part timers to say good bye...

What about us part time company owners lol? If the economy gets better I might have to move my dispatch operations back into the cargo van! If Chef can run two businesses from behind the drivers seat I'm going to be the first rolling trucking office!
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
What about us part time company owners lol? If the economy gets better I might have to move my dispatch operations back into the cargo van! If Chef can run two businesses from behind the drivers seat I'm going to be the first rolling trucking office!

I remember when I was in the taxi business as an O/O...when the job market got better fleet owners had a hard time filling the seats...when the economy flopped there were lots of drivers...

...who in their right mind would want to work 168 hrs a week for LESS then minimum wage....
 

Monty

Expert Expediter
or a fetal accident.
\

My Goodness Moose .. what a funny typo! ;)

As for me, I think there will be a shortage, pure and simple. Many drivers like myself are simply retiring ....
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
Fatal accident =someone died
Fetal accident= you're gonna be a poppa when you don't want to be
(fetal means baby)
 

moose

Veteran Expediter
OoooP's, LoL
.....Give E'm some time, you'll get CSA points for having a Fetal accident too.
"if your not careful and have a fetal accident then you are more likely to be involved in a Fatal accident."
 
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