Estimate $4 gas by spring

[Turtle]

When you go off about the oil profits, before you do, take a close look at the percentage of profit they make. It would be one thing if they make a bazillion dollars profit on 10%, and then suddenly made 2 bazillion on a 20% margin, but they don't. Their margin stays the same. When they have record profits, they don't have record profit margins, just more product is sold at the same profit margin. "Exxon Posts 10% Profit" doesnt exactly make a real juicy "Breaking News" on the bottom of the TV screen.

 

[greg334]

Haverstraw NY, this morning $3.999 a gallon and they were changing the sign as I drove by.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

No offense, Robsdad, but if you do your own homework, you should find some reliable sources.

I'm not a friend of big oil. I'm more inclined to think the prices are artificially high myself. While listening to Andrew Wilkow, he cites government taxation as driving up prices, while totally clearing the oil companies of blame.

Collusion... yes, I'd bet my life there is some. It's easy to get Wall Street riled up and raise prices based on fear. I think the oil cos do that and more.

Taxes... yes, but only slightly. Federal taxes are $.184/gal. The states are listed here:

Gasoline tax information - Michigan Gas Prices

If you read near the top of the page, it says "After crude oil costs, taxes are the second largest contributor to the price paid at the pump. Together Federal and State excise taxes on fuel account for an average cost of approximately 62 cents per gallon." What it tells me is that as fuel has gone up, government puts its hand ever so deeper into our pockets, so as not to arouse suspision from the public. They didn't average .62/gal 10 years ago when fuel was $1.00/gal.

Environmentalists... yes. I believe it when ppl say they can't do a damn thing because environmentalists tie them up in red tape. But also, I think the oil companies are GLAD they're there, so as to take pressure off of their non-action. Frankly, I don't believe oil companies want Anwar available. They prefer the status-quo.

 

[CharlesD]

I place at least some of the blame on the speculators. When I hear on the radio that oil is trading at such and such a barrell, it seems that the speculating is a major contributor to keeping the price high. Folks are making a lot of money trading on commodities like oil.

 

[Turtle]

13 straight weeks of inventory surplus, with each week being a larger percentage surplus than the one before, and yet the price of crude keeps rising. Yeah, speculators are keeping the price up. They're keeping up to the point where it looks like there may even be a bubble going on here. Not like the dot com bubble, but one that will force a healthy "market correction" (that term cracks me up). But there are other forces at work, not the least of which is the devalued dollar, and as all oil is traded for in US dollars, the oil producers are getting a little less of a bang for their bucks, so they aren't too keen on increasing supply in order to lower the already inflated price.

I figure the market will "correct" itself juuuuust about the time the oil companies announce the annual shutdowns and scaling back of the refineries to do the annual maintenance and retooling for summer blends. A couple or three weeks of that will take care of that nasty surplus (at least on paper) and the decreased supply will keep the price at the pumps up to a healthy $4 a pop all summer long.

 

[Coco]

Diesel at a gas station in Ontario Ca was $4.19 this morning. The TA price as of now is $3.89/cash.

 

[Jack_Berry]

i paid 3.899 in effingham(no effing turkey) tonite.

last sat i paid 3.659 for d2.

4 bucks is the end of next week in some places not california.

 

[cheri1122]

Fresno, California, as of 3 hrs ago.

 

[blaaze]

The Energy Non-Crisis

The Energy Non-Crisis

 

[kwexpress]

ok I have a solution to your problem of $4 fuel and it cost less than 10 million.

11,000 B/D Inactive Oil Refinery BID 6-DAY Option to purchase for $5.75 million USD (item 3851)
Category: Oil & Gas:Refinery
Seller: cp (0)
Start Time: Feb 19 08:00:00
Close Time: Mar 04 23:00:00
Or 5 minutes after last bid...
Quantity: 1
Auction Type: 6 DAY Option
Starting Price: $500.00
Lowest Winning Bid: $4000.00
Description
The refinery is mechanically configured and geographically located to operate as the fuel supplier to certain Midwest military bases. The refinery is equipped to produce a quality grade jet fuel, light and heavy napthas and diesel products for distribution and sale to the United States Government and other consumers. The refinery has storage capacity of approximately 350,000 barrels. In addition to the purchase price, the buyer will need to invest an additional US$1,500,000 to US$2,000,000 in refurbishment and upgrade costs, after which the refinery should generate sales of US$140,000,000 and return a net income of US$10,000,000 annually. The former plant manager and other key staff are available to oversee the refurbishment, restart and operation of the refinery. The seller is offering the refinery for sale "as is where is" for a price of US$5,650,000. Alternatively, the seller is willing to enter into a partnership, joint venture or sell an equity interest to a buyer who will provide financing to restart the refinery. M&A #1653


Winning Bids
Bidder Price Quantity Bid Time
Ptaiwo $4000.00* 1 Dec 26 15:00:29
An asterisk (*) next to the bid price indicates reserve price not yet met.

you think its out of our price range? I dont all I need is to get 500 truckers to invest 4k
to get it off the ground

 

[kwexpress]

then I dont want to own the refinerey I just want me and my 500 truckers to be able to stop by and purchase diesel for about .10 per gallon of cource I want these 500 truckers to all run under the same mc# and get control of all freight that moves within a 500 mile radius of the refinery shoot there is more than 1 for sale in this country there is one down in houston needs to be put back on to.come on think outside the box no company could compete if we offered our owner/ops fuel like that

 

[Turtle]

You can't offer owner/ops fuel like that, not unless the refinery comes complete with an oil well next door that's hemorrhaging crude. You gotta buy oil, by the barrel, just like everybody else. Nice thought, though. One can wonder why the oil companies don't own the trucking companies.

Next time you're out there, visit Sinclair, Wyoming. The town consists mainly of an oil refinery smack dab in the middle of town. About 400 people live there, and it's a company town in every sense. The refinery refines oil from nearby wells, pumped to the refinery by pipeline, and the refined gas and diesel moves to the town's gas stations via pipeline. The refinery serves as the pipeline control center for Sinclair, which operates both crude and refined pipelines in several states. You'd think fuel would be cheaper at the Sinclair gas station there in town. It's not.

 

[kwexpress]

well as a matter of fact I have 18 wells in my yard but granted they only produce 1-5 barrels per day each so its not enough to supply a refinerey by no means but I am working on it.

and I think you got it backwards I think trucking companies should own oil companies.
if I was an oil company selling fuel I would have to pay alot in taxes but would I if I was
a trucking company using my own product I mfg?
maybe I will send send on my ideas to opec I think they got around 40% of the worlds crude.

I know your right that you couldnt buy diesel for .10 a gallon even direct from a refinery
but if you joined together with a refinery to supply the fuel even at a loss to take over transportation once you put the big guys out the profits from transportaion sector would go up in fact once you brung the other transportation companies to there knees you could pretty much name your price. but there is alot more to being able to complete this as my small mind can grasp after all I am just a trucker with some colledge in drilling technology and I have a couple of drilling rigs. the southern IL produces 10-12 mil barrels per year.now keep in mind that diesel is only 1 thing extracted from crude oil and how many gallons of diesel 1 barrel of oil produces I have know idea but I am working on that to.if you know please do tell

 

[kwexpress]

just for kicks I sent the guy an email asking him how many gallons of diesel he would be willing to give up over a 1 year priod for the 2 million he needs to restart this refinery.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

You forgot the $1 mil in lawyer fees when the environmentalists challenge your refinery. Not to mention the years you'll be tied up in court before a drop of fuel is ever produced.

 

[Turtle]

Did you know that if you have your own well and your own mini refinery in the back yard, if you make your own fuel you still have to pay the taxes on it. Same with making your own biodiesel for collected chicken grease from KFC, and from being a trucking company that owns its own refinery.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Yep... heard that. All those nice little taxes will cost you about the same per gallon as fuel itself did about 10 years ago.

Made me wonder if someone ended up designing a diesel engine that runs on water, how the government would tax you on fuel. I can see road use tax. But not on something you can fill the tanks from a garden hose.

Which brings me to my next point. Since a water powered engine is proven to work, why isn't anyone putting billions into advancing the technology for use by the common man??? My opinion: oil is money, and money is power.

 

[kwexpress]

even so if fuel cost me what it did 10 years ago it would be worth my time

 

[FIS53]

Here in canada we've had prices around the $4.00 per US gal for a long time now. Right now the cheapest I know of is around 3.90/us gal. So we have managed and yes we do make less profit. The market here is smaller than the US and so we suffer as costs are higher to do anything. BUt this has been happening for the last 5 years at least. Our prices flutuate at horrendous rates (almost daily), with diesel being the one fuel to be pretty stable for a week. Some provinces have legislated the price be fixed for two weeks minumum before another price change.

Here refineries have reduced in number. We had over 30 during the 60-70's and now I think we only have like 19 for the country. Yes expansion and improvements have happened at most but petro canada just closed a refinery in burlington/oakville (on the border). We have more cars and trucks on the roads and more busses and more trains but refineries are closing. Makes you think. Unfortunately we are in for higher fuel prices and probably for the rest of this year.

Do we get a more per mile??? NOt really. I'm only making soewhere around $1.10 a mile (mile not kilometer). Now I do more deadhead than most of you so really I only get somewhere around .65 per mile or such quite a lot. So profit margins here are quite low.

So we suffer until freight picks up and we can look forward to a little more profit. Now in looking for another truck to add to my poor income fuel economy is one of the factors. Hard to find a good used one with a small engine and the right gearing. Yeah I know buy it and change things afterwards, but again costs are not the same here.

Enjoy guys, high fuel is here for awhile.
Rob

 

[mypie]

Am I reading this right? 1 gal per hour to operate a train? Maybe 1 gallon per ton per hour??

Trains can move freight for 5 times LESS fuel than trucks. I don't think trains have to pay fuel taxes either.

Watch it again. The commercial says 1 gallon of fuel for ton of freight to go (I think) 400 miles. An 80 car train would burn a lot of fuel. The commercial is very misleading.