EPA announces plan to clean up Great Lakes

[witness23]

Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:59pm EST
(Reuters) - A year after President Barack Obama proposed a plan to clean up the Great Lakes, the government Sunday laid out its plan to improve the ecology of the major bodies of water that support much of U.S. agriculture and industry.

Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Lisa Jackson met with governors of states that touch the inland waterways to describe an "action plan" that will focus on eliminating invasive species, cleaning up pollutants, and remediating more than a half million acres of the area's wetlands, she told reporters.

"It's about creating a new standard of care for the Great Lakes system," Jackson said. "Instead of minimizing harm, our new standard of care is to leave the Great Lakes better for the next generation than the condition in which we inherited them."

At the end of last year, Congress authorized $475 million to be spent on improving the ecosystem that contains 21 percent of the world's fresh water. Obama proposed in his budget earlier this month putting an additional $300 million into the program for the fiscal year that starts in October.

Some $60 million will go to fighting Asian carp, a non-native species threatening to disrupt the fishing industry in Lake Michigan.

Jackson said that in future years -- the plan covers 2010 through 2014 -- funding will return to the $475 million.

"I'm glad the plan is an action plan and not a study," said Ohio Governor Ted Strickland at the news conference with Jackson during the National Governors Association meeting, adding that the lakes need immediate attention.

As a candidate, Obama pledged to improve the five lakes -- Superior, Michigan, Huron, Erie and Ontario -- most of which run along the border between the United States and Canada. Currently the countries are renegotiating their water quality agreement for the area.

"What the administration is doing here is making it clear we are well behind an effort ... to invest in the Great Lakes. That is one of the guiding tenets as we approach the negotiations with our neighbors in Canada," Jackson said about the plan.

(Reporting by Lisa Lambert; Editing by Eric Walsh)

 

[moose]

They can start by cleaning up Chicago So2Speak ...

 

[greg334]

The last time I looked, we didn't need to dump MORE money into the lakes until there is money to dump into lakes. They are a lot cleaner than they were and they continue to be cleaner every year that goes by.

 

[witness23]

The last time I looked, we didn't need to dump MORE money into the lakes until there is money to dump into lakes. They are a lot cleaner than they were and they continue to be cleaner every year that goes by.

Well.....there may be some that may not agree with you greg.

Where is Obama, ALGORE and ALL you other so-called eco-savers when you need them?

The Asian carp is poised to get into the Great Lakes. IF this monster makes into the Lakes it has the potential to wipe out the entire eco-system of the largest fresh water system in the world.

Where is Obama going to save the planet? NOT the Chicago area with enough funds to block the offending waterways for good, no, he is going to Europe, to fight a NON-proven threat. Heaven forbid he does something to protect a valuable resorce in the United States from a KNOWN threat that could be erased for just a few million dollars worth of concrete.

Bush II vetoed a bill that would have fixed it, mainly based on the cost due to a large number of amendments attached to the bill that has NOTHING to do with the carp. The Dumb-O-Crats played that up big time, Bush was anti eco system. Well now, THEY are in charge and doing NOTHING.

I thought the Dumb-O-Crats were good for the planet, oh I get it, only if it controls people, not fish.

This could cost the Great Lakes region BILLIONS in lost revenue, hundreds of thousands of jobs and destroy the Lakes. Where are all you tree huggers now?


asian carp invasion - Google News

 

[Poorboy]

I'll Believe it when I See It! They have Been spewing that Rhetoric for Years! Now we Have the Asian Carp to Deal With!

 

[Darmstadter]

Isn't Lake Erie cleaner in large part due to Zebra mussels?

 

[layoutshooter]

Isn't Lake Erie cleaner in large part due to Zebra mussels?[/QUOTE

The Zebra mussels have done great harm to the Great Lakes. They filter out the micro-food supplies that small bait fish eat. That in turn has shrunk the food supply hurting game fish populations There are efforts underway to control or rid the lakes of this menence. So far it has had only marginal success.

 

[layoutshooter]

Well.....there may be some that may not agree with you greg.

The Lake are much cleaner than 30 years ago. They need more work. I have not had a chance to see what "strings" come with this bill. There always is, no matter which party passes these things. It is not possible for a politician to just pass a bill that attacks just the problem at hand.

We shall see what happens, my gut tells me that if the Dumb-O-Crats passed this there are hidden "bombs" that might do things like outlaw hunting, curtail sport fishing. Just a feeling, no proof. I will here more from my bioligist friends over the coming months. I will withhold my judgement until I hear what the end result will be.

What do you think Witness? Just let the Lakes die? Trust those who work on them every day or trust politicians? Or, just blast what I think cause it's fun?

 

[greg334]

Well you have to ask yourself when is it enough?

I mean here is another $300m that will be thrown to some groups to clean the water up, but then what does that really mean in cost of paying that loan back and more importantly who is being paid off by this?

By the way, Asian cap has a GREAT BIG market from the NPR report the other day, Gefilte fish!

They were interviewing one of the producers who happened to be farming Asian carp and he said business was good. So Layout asked if there was a use for the fish, and there it is - with 13,000,000 Jews in the world, it is a great market!

 

[layoutshooter]

Well you have to ask yourself when is it enough?

I mean here is another $300m that will be thrown to some groups to clean the water up, but then what does that really mean in cost of paying that loan back and more importantly who is being paid off by this?

By the way, Asian cap has a GREAT BIG market from the NPR report the other day, Gefilte fish!

They were interviewing one of the producers who happened to be farming Asian carp and he said business was good. So Layout asked if there was a use for the fish, and there it is - with 13,000,000 Jews in the world, it is a great market!

As far as I know Greg carp in Michigan waters are considered unsafe to eat and it is not legal to sell them for food uses.

There are other considerations too, but you and I will never agree on them. I believe that we should be doing all we can to restore this eco-system. I know what the long term cost of losing it will be. I also believe that we have a moral repsonsibility to protect as much as we can.

We will have to agree to disagree, we will never see eye to eye and I my beliefs are totally different than yours.

I did post a link in the woods and waters page with the consumption prohibitions and restrictions on fish in Michigan waters. Try this link, this one might work. Carp are considered unsafe to eat at any size. So that would kill any potential market.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/FishAdvisory03_67354_7.pdf

 

[Turtle]

It's funny how people spend countless time and money trying to keep a changing planet just the way it is. There used to be a federally protected eco-system just east of Mt Saint Helens, 30,000 acres in all. Whoops.

Eco-systems change all the time. They have been since before the beginning of time. Life adapts continuously to those changes. I think we should restore Death Valley to the immense freshwater lake it once was. Oh, wait, it was an ocean before that. Let's restore it to an ocean, restore the original eco-system.

Sure am glad there's some kind of time limit on when it needs to be restored to. Otherwise we'd have to eliminate a lot of business and industry around the Great Lakes, not to mention all those pesky white and black people.

All I know for sure is, whenever and wherever there is a problem that can be solved by throwing more money at it, the problem is never solved by throwing more money at it.

 

[layoutshooter]

We will have to disagree too. Those carp are not a natural occurance here. Neither are the PCB's etc. Which industries need protected? Not the 3 billion dollar a year sport fishing industry? Must not be important. Not any of the charter boat captains, or mom and pop bait shops or motels that cater to fishermen or the tackle shops, reel repair shops etc etc etc. Are only large industries to be protected? Mt. St. Helens was a natural thing, none of this damage is. What is worth protecting? How much more will it cost to provide clean drinking water if we allow the Lake to continue to be poluted? I think there is a basic difference in our thought patterns.

 

[Turtle]

We will have to disagree too. Those carp are not a natural occurance here.

Oh, yes they are, absolutely. They are as natural an occurrence as a sunflower growing where a bird crapped a sunflower seed. The only difference between a sunflower growing where it has never grown before, and a zebra muscle or an Asian carp not being where it has historically been, is different types of animals native to the planet were involved in unknowingly transporting them to their new homes. It happens all the time, and the planet, and everything on it, adapts to the new changes. The carp and muscles and sunflower will multiply, and just like the flying insects, birds and other animals will adapt to sunflowers having an impact of a new eco-system, we and other lifeforms will have to adapt to zebra muscles and Asian carp being in a new, unfamiliar territory. The mom and pop bait shops and all the other industries associated with them will likewise have to adapt.

At some point the Asian carp will be removed from the Invasive Species List and will be labeled as indigenous to North America. That will happen after people have adapted to it and no longer think of it as invasive, after the eco-system has been sufficiently changed to the point where things are normal, whatever "normal" happens to be at that time. Same thing with zebra muscles.

The carp and the muscles, and a long list of other species that fall under the definition of "introduced" falls under that definition because their introduction, their transport from their otherwise native habitat, was performed by humans, either knowingly or unknowingly. An intentional introduction of a species, as with the southern favorite kudzu, is most definitely an unnatural occurrence. But an introduced species that is introduced unknowingly, by all accounts, becomes an natural occurrence since the movement of humans from regions and continents is most definitely a natural occurrence, as humans have been wanderers since forever.

This isn't about natural or unnatural, it's about money and/or how it affects people. People don't like change much.

That's why people are freaking out over the adapting we're gonna have to do with Climate Change. The northeast is having to learn to adapt to a sudden change in snowfall patterns. Doesn't matter how natural or unnatural that occurrence is, they still gotta adapt, or die, it's that simple, regardless of how much humans abhor change.

Anyone seen my buggy whip? Like those who witnessed the death of the Pony Express (which operated for only about a year, actually), we are witnessing the early death of the Post Office, the newspaper, paper maps and the purchasing of recorded music at a brick and mortar store. Things change, people adapt. That's why they're called people. Otherwise they'd be called fossils.

 

[layoutshooter]

Ok, so then it is perfectly ok to wipe out the walleye, yellow perch and other native species and put all of those people out of work? Are their jobs/businesses less important than yours?

I don't understand. It is ok just to wipe out anything that you might not understand the importance of it? Like untold numbers of waterfowl species? I guess that does not affect expediting so it is of no matter?

Again, I will say, we will have to agree to disagree. I believe that we have a moral duty to be good stewards of what was given. I realize that is not popular with some, maybe even seems stupid. What happens if we ever need the exsiting food stocks that reside in the Lakes? No matter. I believe what I believe based on my likes, dislikes, experience and associations with experts in the field.

You can believe anything you like. We will never agree. I will fight for what I believe is right. Sorry you cannot see the importance. Maybe if there was a way to sell stocks in the Great Lakes fishing industry. But, a million more or less jobs lost in Michigan are of no importance.

 

[greg334]

I think we disagree on how it should be restored, not if it should be.

The carp in the great lakes?

So, I am talking about the ones in the canals and rivers trying to get into the great lakes. It is a good thing to see a market for a fish that is harmful and maybe taking that 300 million and building up some businesses to fish the carp out of them would do a lot more than to dump 300 million into something that won't really help.

The point is why are we spending money we don't have for something we should not do until the rest of the country is back together and moving forward?

 

[layoutshooter]

Then close the locks, net them prior to them getting in and sell them. IF that is legal. IF anyone will buy them, they will need testing for contamination and laws will need to be changed in the States involved.

As to the rest, IF and only IF cleanup can continue without kickbacks and that garbage it is a good thing. It provides Thousands or more high paying jobs, is that not what we are after? Or, are those jobs not important? How do we determine which jobs are worth saving? Only jobs of peoples with kids? OR?

Why is one group of jobs is worth more than the other?

 

[witness23]

What do you think Witness? Just let the Lakes die? Trust those who work on them every day or trust politicians? Or, just blast what I think cause it's fun?

Lighten up Francis. Why in the world did you think I was blasting you? The story was for you, you asked where Al Gore, Obama and ALL you other so called eco-savers are when you need them. Well there you have it. ****' you really need to channel that anger you have built up inside and do something productive with it. I quoted you because what greg said, which I do not agree with at all. No, I do not want the lakes "to die" I'm glad they are paying attention them because it is a life source that is precious to humans and animals alike. I live and play on Lake Erie so you are preaching to the choir my son.

 

[Turtle]

Ok, so then it is perfectly ok to wipe out the walleye, yellow perch and other native species and put all of those people out of work? Are their jobs/businesses less important than yours?

I never said it was OK, only that it happens. It's a shame that the family run buggy whip businesses all went out of business, but they did. Should we roll back times to before the automobile in order to protect those thousands of businesses? Of course not. People adapted, and thousands of autoworkers have jobs in the automobile industry. Eventually, that industry will become extinct, too.

I don't understand. It is ok just to wipe out anything that you might not understand the importance of it? Like untold numbers of waterfowl species? I guess that does not affect expediting so it is of no matter?

Be careful of what you assume, especially when talking to a lifetime member of Ducks Unlimited, and an avid fisherman who lives next to Kentucky Lake.

Again, I will say, we will have to agree to disagree. I believe that we have a moral duty to be good stewards of what was given. I realize that is not popular with some, maybe even seems stupid. What happens if we ever need the exsiting food stocks that reside in the Lakes? No matter. I believe what I believe based on my likes, dislikes, experience and associations with experts in the field.

I also believe that we have a duty to be good stewards of the planet. That's why I'm against picking up dog poop and wrapping it inside a plastic bag, putting that inside another one, and having it buried in a landfill. For my money, all non-biodegradable plastic bags should be outlawed.

You can believe anything you like. We will never agree. I will fight for what I believe is right. Sorry you cannot see the importance. Maybe if there was a way to sell stocks in the Great Lakes fishing industry. But, a million more or less jobs lost in Michigan are of no importance.

Actually, I can see the importance of minimizing or eliminating the economical and ecological impact of invasive species. But I can also see the importance of adaptation, of looking at the problem and its ramification realistically, and the fact that once a damaging invasive species has been introduced, there is rarely anything that can be done about it other than to adapt to the changes. Don't forget, there was a time in Michigan where there was no Great Lakes fishing industry, and there will likely come a time where that becomes the case again. It would be nice if everything, jobs included, would stay they way they are forever, and no one would have to learn to adapt to any changes. But that's not how this planet, Michigan included, works. Carp will get into the lakes, one way or the other, and we'll all have to deal with it.

 

[layoutshooter]

Lighten up Francis. Why in the world did you think I was blasting you? The story was for you, you asked where Al Gore, Obama and ALL you other so called eco-savers are when you need them. Well there you have it. ****' you really need to channel that anger you have built up inside and do something productive with it. I quoted you because what greg said, which I do not agree with at all. No, I do not want the lakes "to die" I'm glad they are paying attention them because it is a life source that is precious to humans and animals alike. I live and play on Lake Erie so you are preaching to the choir my son.

Did you get permission to play on my Lake? LOL!!

As to ALGORE and the rest, beware of wolfs in sheeps clothing. I would be willing to bet that there are many many things and strings attached that will hurt more then help. Just a feeling. I don't trust them, neither do any of the biologists that I hunt with.

 

[layoutshooter]

I never said it was OK, only that it happens. It's a shame that the family run buggy whip businesses all went out of business, but they did. Should we roll back times to before the automobile in order to protect those thousands of businesses? Of course not. People adapted, and thousands of autoworkers have jobs in the automobile industry. Eventually, that industry will become extinct, too.

Be careful of what you assume, especially when talking to a lifetime member of Ducks Unlimited, and an avid fisherman who lives next to Kentucky Lake.

I also believe that we have a duty to be good stewards of the planet. That's why I'm against picking up dog poop and wrapping it inside a plastic bag, putting that inside another one, and having it buried in a landfill. For my money, all non-biodegradable plastic bags should be outlawed.


Actually, I can see the importance of minimizing or eliminating the economical and ecological impact of invasive species. But I can also see the importance of adaptation, of looking at the problem and its ramification realistically, and the fact that once a damaging invasive species has been introduced, there is rarely anything that can be done about it other than to adapt to the changes. Don't forget, there was a time in Michigan where there was no Great Lakes fishing industry, and there will likely come a time where that becomes the case again. It would be nice if everything, jobs included, would stay they way they are forever, and no one would have to learn to adapt to any changes. But that's not how this planet, Michigan included, works. Carp will get into the lakes, one way or the other, and we'll all have to deal with it.

Hey, you gonna come up for our Ducks Unlimited Dinner? We pull 500-600 people. Doing an all day outdoorrama this year, from 9-4 and the dinner starting at 5. We have a great chapter, turned in close to 80,000 last year. Not bad for a small town. This years dinner is May 1.

It has taken a very long time and a lot of work to get these lakes back into shape. I am NOT one to just sit back and give up. It needs fought, we won before and can again. We are down to less than 1% of our native wetlands in SE Michigan and that carp will finish them off. Then, no ducks. No walleye. I will fight it if I can. I am not ready to just throw my hands up and quit.