EOBR Regulation Vacated by Court

[layoutshooter]

My carrier doesn't allow personal use. there is only four lines and that's it - so should I worry if I go to an EOBR which would allow me a line five option?

NOPE



Well who cares?

I mean what does the MPG data have to do with anything anyway?

They going to look at the data and make lower offers?

MAYBE this would be a great thing for them sprinters who undercut all the trucks for three pallets of foam.



Does the data come from your ECM maybe?

Maybe your ecm is off?



A lot of people do.

I KNOW my miles driven are off, often by as much as 50 miles per day. I KNOW my MPG is off, I keep GOOD records. Our EOBR's are a joke. They OFTEN have NO IDEA in the world where we are. I KNOW what my truck does, day in and day out. I would not be in business this long if I did not.

YOU may CHOOSE to believe what ever you like. I KNOW my facts, for MY business, and they are 100 percent correct.

My EOBR is NOT!

 

[ATeam]

Civil rights? Now that is a major stretch. Lump it right in their with healthcare and all the other junk they try to claim as civil rights now days, even cell phones and internet access.

Alright. Scratch the word civil. I could have chosen my words more carefully. Workplace rules, contract law, whatever; the devices hold the potential for abuse against which certain laws are on the books now to prevent. Trucking companies are more known for abusing drivers than looking out for them. OOIDA's case has merit. I am glad to see them making it in court.

 

[ATeam]

I cannot figure out how you can harass a person with a EOBR.

What re they going to do to a company employee, tell them that their 10 hour break is up and its time to go back to work. Because they cannot make them violate the HOS.

You are close. A driver -- especially an employee driver -- may be in no condition to drive but because the real-time device shows a dispathcer that he or she is, the go-back-go-work call may indeed come. It can work the other way too. A driver has time to spare and again is in no condition to drive but the dispatcher, seeing that time to spare, may push him or her to keep going. EOBRs undermine the captain of the ship notion. They can transfer decision making power away from the driver to the office.

Drivers can argue against that in the interests of safety but when one's job is at stake, how many are inclined to do so?

Since moving to a carrier that does not force Diane and me to have an EOBR in our truck (and that was a contributing factor in our decision to jump), I have not been following this issue with great interest so I cannot articulate well the issues. But my sympathies lie with OOIDA and against the FMCSA and I am glad to see OOIDA making the case that EOBRs must not be used to harass drivers.

At that very least, the court ruling will force FMCSA to actually consider the harassment issue instead of giving token lip service to it.

 

[beachbum]

If your Ill or fatigued there is a FMCSA regulation for that. Don't know the number off hand, but it reads something like this. No carrier will have a driver drive a commercial vehicle while ill or fatigued.

As for making a driver driver work after his 10 hours are up is a company driver issue, not a O/O issue.

As for layoutshooter and the my EOBR shows me someplace else and not where I'm at, to me is bull because it uses GPS for location.

For the poster using milage and it being off then get your ECM calibrated then it wont be off anymore.

As for us sprinter drivers, we don't have to worry about EOBR'S since were under 10K weight and don't have to log or enter scales, except SD from what I hear. That goes out the door when we pull a placard load and have to log and go thru scales.

 

[moose]

I just ordered a 65 thousand $ rig, & prepaid for the custom graphics of OOIDA all over it.
@ 59 MPH that rigs cannot be ignored moving down the HWY.
the EOBR court rolling makes that rig so mach special.
it is good to know that special lobbyists groups in WDC will not make our roads less safe to travel in the name of making money for hoe ever pay them to be in WDC .
it's sends a clear message to the transportation ministry that they are not allow to abused truckers to keep their gov. jobs.
Ray La-Hood once said: " how can we keep monitoring drivers fatigue if we do not know how many hours they spends behind the wheel".
it was that statements that initiated the OOIDA court actions. and for a good rezone. la-Hood was not speaking to the industry when he made that statement. he was talking to electoral voters at that time. making this a clear statement that this is about his job more then anything else.
EOBR never was about safety, it is only about big money lobbyists .
i actually took the time to answer the OOIDA survey and get my 2 C in so they can used that info before going to court.
EOBR's are about eliminating competitions by regulations, OOIDA see that and protect small business from large carriers and technology providers.
it is a good day to be a professional driver, a great win for the American trucker, and a proud day to be an OOIDA member.

 

[kwexpress]

I use it on my cargo van not that I need to but if you hire a wheel holder it does much more than a paper log.

in my case I pay for fuel and it sends the routes to the driver. it updates every 10 minutes
it tells me how fast the vehicle is traveling.send me alerts when truck is idle for more than 20 minutes if he brakes to hard I find the fuel milage is actually dead on.stops a lot of useless phone calls and they even send you a pretty little decal to put on the side of your truck so the dot knows you have it on board.I have had 0 out of route miles and spent less on fuel since having it installed.if you ever had a truck stold or left in bfe you would be glad to have it.plus it may even lower your insurance.here is a link

GPS Tracking Devices, GPS Systems & GPS Tracking Systems

it cost me somewhere in the $10-13 per week range no install charge. pay per quarter
havent had to call anyone for directions yet

 

[ATeam]

I use it on my cargo van not that I need to but if you hire a wheel holder it does much more than a paper log.

in my case I pay for fuel and it sends the routes to the driver. it updates every 10 minutes
it tells me how fast the vehicle is traveling.send me alerts when truck is idle for more than 20 minutes if he brakes to hard I find the fuel milage is actually dead on.stops a lot of useless phone calls and they even send you a pretty little decal to put on the side of your truck so the dot knows you have it on board.

That is exactly why big carriers like EOBRs. The technology reduces reliance on the driver. The more technology you put in a truck, the less skills a driver needs to have and the less self-directed he or she needs to be.

EOBRs pave the way for carriers to reduce the minumum standards a driver must have, and so too the pay.

Drivers wanted. Wheel holders welcome. Ability to read and write desired but not required.

 

[layoutshooter]

That is exactly why big carriers like EOBRs. The technology reduces reliance on the driver. The more technology you put in a truck, the less skills a driver needs to have and the less self-directed he or she needs to be.

EOBRs pave the way for carriers to reduce the minumum standards a driver must have, and so too the pay.

Drivers wanted. Wheel holders welcome. Ability to read and write desired but not required.

Honesty, integrity not required. Carriers see no reason to trust contractors. What a crock.

 

[Monty]

Information can also help and justify your actions, the pendulum swings both ways.

No longer can a dispatcher, etc, even suggest you violate the rules.

Such as, "Well, you do have another log book".

It also mandates that you will be assured of a proper 10 hours, no interuptions and will work only 11/14.

Oh, did I mention this is one of the reasons I am now less than 10,000 pounds?

And one carrier I know, (Landstar), will encourage you to always be on time, but will CELEBRATE your late arrival if it was safety related.

Safety is always foremost at Landstar, and these EOBR's will work toward that goal. If you become marginal on CSA, they may very well demand you have one installed to satisfy your contract terms ro operate safely.

 

[moose]

Oh, did I mention this is one of the reasons I am now less than 10,000 pounds?
Which is exactly a text book definitions of eliminating you competitions by regulations. since this rule will effect the financial ability of YOUR completions, without effecting YOUR ability to haul fright.
And one carrier I know, (Landstar), will encourage you to always be on time, but will CELEBRATE your late arrival if it was safety related.
so one would have thought they will be against a federally mandated EOBR. if EOBR can helps the safety of their competitions, they will want anything but a federally mandated EOBR
Safety is always foremost at Landstar, .

Well that's very nice and Dundy, and good for them for opting out. but it is NOT in their best interest to have EOBR mandated. unless this will give them a financial advantage over the Small business that keep taking freight from under the wheels of their trucks.
please do not think this is about road safety, it's not, it is about money. ever noticed how the ambulance chasers not sounding a voice ?

 

[BigBusBob]

I agree with Phil. And regarding a comment earlier in this thread, there are devices they can use to view over/under revving of an engine. Mechanics have that ability, whether they have the tools in their shop or not is different. Just because a shop or mechanic says "they can't do that" does Not mean the technology is not out there to perform the job.

EOBR don't belong on trucks, why? Why do they need to be there? They are wanting them really not to monitor HOS, though they perform that application just as well as a Qualcomm or similar device. it's there for safety, and Charter Busses need EOBR's more than trucks. I can say that with merit because I drive both trucks and busses. For 15 years now, I've delt with trucks, 11 of those years with busses as well.

IF there is an accident, EOBR's act as a "Black Box" does on aircraft.
Bus accidents often hurt and/or kill far more people than a truck accident does.
Accident investigators can pull information on braking, and g forces and body tilt and more. Yes, they do incorporate that technology into EOBR's. It's not just a clock watcher, but we already have that technology available today.

They should be installed on cargo vans that haul freight in my opinion. Why? because what makes them so special? So what they're under the "weight limit", they're still hauling commercial freight! Don't make them use log books, but install qualcomm units on them? what's the difference?

FMCSA should be mandating far more important things like rear LED brake lights for all commercial vehicles, anti-spray devices for mudflaps and things of that nature. Things that actually will help make driving-The Actual JOB-safer!!!

This enrages me, drivers don't think EOBR's belong on trucks...
because "you must be running illegal",
why? because I don't want another computer on my rig? well, I got a paper log book that does the same thing as a EOBR. EOBR's don't belong in trucking, and do they really belong on cargo vans? well, if they belong on trucks, will they be installed on cargo van drivers? My guess is it would not surprise me if they were not installed.

OOIDA did score a victory, why?

1st it was important enough to get into a court, and a judge saw importance enough in the subject and saw no real need for it.
FMCSA needs to take that as a suggestion to go after some other subject that's more meaningful towards transportation.

2nd, OOIDA (an organization of DRIVERS AND/OR Truck OWNERS!!) and the Justice System of the United States of America agreed on something... EOBR's are a waste of time and money for trucks.

FMCSA should take that issue taxi's, boats, or some other division of transportation and see how it flies, it probably won't fly there as well.

That's my 2 cents.
You know there's an interesting bit in LandLine magazine's recent edition regarding drivers who have I believe it was one million miles, basically the bit in the magazine was saying that drivers who reach that milestone accident free should be allowed to log as they please... because they obviously must be doing something right? though some would say they're just lucky right? well, perhaps. but that's a lot of luck in ten years or so that it on average takes to accumulate that amount of miles for a driver. Is that luck? or is that truly being a "Safe" driver who knows what they're doing and how to do the job to the best of their particular ability.

If I owned a large co. like Swift-which I drove for in the past-I'm not so sure I'd want EOBR's in the trucks or not. Why? well, it's one more expense, and there's already technology out there that I can utilize to do the same thing. and if FMCSA sees too many of my rigs lighting up their radar, they may target me more. Insurance rates may go up, and there's many more possible implications I'm sure as well. Phil and a select few others on here I'm sure would understand.

EOBR's are like medicine, but everybody reacts to medicine's differently. Not everybody needs medicine and there is no medicine that can cure everything.
What will EOBR's cure? what will they fix?
What will they actually do...That current technology can't do?

BigBusBob

 

[davekc]

Makes you wonder what will happen with the mandated recorders on the Mexican trucks coming in?
Probably sue and win and we will be paying the Mexican carriers a ton of money because we hurt their feelings.

 

[BigBusBob]

a valid point there too Dave.
Yes, it does make one wonder about the Mexican trucks that come into the US to operate.

 

[greg334]

Just a couple thoughts.

1 - what about Qualcomm units? I mean they record your distance, time and so on. It seems those who are complaining about intrusion forget that the qualcomm unit is just about the same.

2 - the new ECMs do more than any EOBR can do and have for a while. I read about one truck manufacturer that the ecm records a months worth of operating data and if it is combined with the communications system, can send near real time data back to a dispatcher or a trucking company.

3 - not many can explain what the EOBRs actually can record, or at least here. I know what the three popular ones do but it isn't what some are saying.

 

[kwexpress]

from a company stand point they keep drivers from lying to dispatch about there current location and provide the company with the info needed to get rid of less desirable operators.

they enable companies to update truck locations without the need for a phone call.they provide extra security and act as a theft deturant.if I had of wanted to be sneaky and didnt want the ability to use it for a communication device between operator and dispatch then I could of installed a model that the driver wouldnt even know it was there.

to me it protects both the operator and the company so I opted for the two way communication.what about those times when cells dont work.If you was in an accident wouldnt you want someone to know that could send you help.

if your truck is stolden dont you want it recoved with the freight still in it?or would you rather the carriers insurance pay a claim.dont you want to know your truck is about to breakdown or would you rather breakdown on a load so you can get the carrier to pay to fix it.

 

[movercash]

Information is power. Companies and our government abuse it all the time. It's not a matter of if they will abuse the information but when.

 

[Monty]

Read it and weep .. your ecm can tell more than any new fangled gadget, and, (most), trucks already have one.

The program‘s objective is to increase safety, security, and efficiency of truck transportation by presenting wireless credentials to roadside inspectors that confirm that the tractor, trailer and cargo meet all appropriate requirements for safe transportation of the cargo. By presenting these credentials without the need for the truck to stop, the number of inspections increase, the efficiency of the system improves, and inspectors can have more time to target trucks that are more likely to have safety and security violations. The Trusted Truck® II project is the four year continuation of this program

http://ntl.bts.gov/lib/31000/31700/31706/U06-Trusted_TruckR_II__Phase_A_.pdf

There was a lot of interest in this project, not sure the status of it at this moment in time.

This technology can be activated at any place, not just in the vicinity of a scale. Anywhere they desire a reader, up it goes.

"What was that thingy on the overpass?"

Oh yes, technology is making strong inroads into freedoms, both workplace and personal ..... welcome home Big Brother.

 

[beachbum]

LS EOBR will record off duty sleeper berth both of these you'll need to push a button to enter either of them. on duty driving nothing needs to be done since it only will take the truck moving a small distance. on duty not driving will start recording after the truck stops moving for 5 minutes. All miles and cities will be done by GPS and the ecm.

At the safety meeting at the GATS truck show it didn't say if they could check your speed, but from experience at LS they will. because they have a 3 under rule for speed

 

[ATeam]

At the safety meeting at the GATS truck show it didn't say if they could check your speed, but from experience at LS they will. because they have a 3 under rule for speed

A 3 under rule? What is a 3 under rule?

 

[greg334]

A 3 under rule? What is a 3 under rule?

Your overall average for the log is 3 miles under the average speed limit - as explained to me by Rockford.

If you are busting a** and driving 75 (legally), make sure your logs are not indicating 75 but somewhere below that - national average minus 3.

I know Phil isn't going to drive 75 but maybe 63 so it is a smart move.

SOMEBODY QUOTE ME SO HE CAN SEE THAT!!