engine life

[louixo]

I would like to hear what engines you guys are using and how performance has been. I always ran cummins when i was driving tractor trailer. Never had a problem. My first expediter was a 3126 cat. I lost an injector cup at about 300,000 mi., so i had them all replaced to the tune of about $2300. not to mention time down, and the load I lost that I was on. Never had any experience with the detroit 60 series, but read good things about it. Would like to hear your comments, and mileage run.

 

[M3]

The series 60 in a Class 8 6 cylinder and will not fit in most medium duty trucks. The series 50 is the 4 cylinder variant of the 60 and has a superior track record as far as reliability when compared to the small cats and cummins.

 

[Weave]

Here's my research for medium trucks:

Cummins ISC8.3- Excellent reliability, some fuel pump problems in early units (employs a Cummins computer FI system.) Powerful (300 HP+) Wet sleeve design for easy rebuildability. 24 valve head. An excellent choice in Freightliner, Pete, KW, others.
Smooth and Quiet. A D unit dream.

Detroit Series 50- Powerful (300 HP+) 4 cylinder with overhead cam. In Freightliner FL106 only as it needs a high hood. Shares big Series 60 design and has excellent reliability. Smooth and quiet, has a balance shaft. Computer allows it to idle on 2 cylinders for economy. Wet sleeve design also. Wish it were available in trucks other than FL106. A D unit dream also.

Cummins ISB5.9- Parent bore little Cummins. Essentially the engine used in Dodge Ram pickups, but with a bigger (15 quart) crankcase. Bosch computer fuel injection. HP up to 275. If you change its oil a lot, it will go past 500k miles easily. Inexpensive to run and rebuild. Not near as torquey as bigger displacement engines. Great for C unit trucks.

Caterpillar 3126/3126B- 7.2 liter 6 cylinder engine. Power up to 280 HP. They are powerful when new and run away from everything, but are not very reliable. Usually die around 400-500k miles and cost $10-12k to replace. They are usually so totally shot that a rebuild is not feasable. HEUI oil powered fuel injection system causes most of engine's problems down the road. Need super clean oil at all times and general repairs are expensive too. Stay away from this thing.

Older Cummins C8.3 (on used market, no longer available new)- Big, but not generally powerful (225-260 HP). Bosch mechanical fuel injection is excellent. Cooling system must be kept top notch or C8.3's head likes to crack. No intake preheat so ether must be used to start it in very cold weather. Very reliable if maintained, and cheap to rebuild with wet sleeve design. A very good choice in used D truck market. It is hot and noisey however.

Older Cummins B5.9 (on used market, no longer available new)- These parent bore engines can be found in a lot of used medium trucks esp. Freightliner and Ford. Again a Dodge Pickup engine with 15 quart crankcase. Bosch mechanical fuel injection is great. Engine is rated for 350-400k life, will easily go past 500k with excellent maintenance. Cheap to rebuild or replace. HP up to 230. A good engine for a used C/D unit for beginner. No preheat so keep some ether with you. Dependable but noisey.

International DT466/466E- Ok, I have ran these engines locally but have no clue how they hold out on the highway (not enough data). I know it is a wet sleeve inline 6 cylinder engine and the "e" variant has a computer fuel injection system. I'll take it the 466 is CI so that makes it around 7.6 liters. I'm pretty sure these IH built engines are really reliable, but I don't think they offer up much horsepower. (I'm just judging that by I don't recall ever being passed by one lately.) If someone out there is running IH power, please set me straight on this thing's ability on the highway.

International T444/444e- The infamous Ford powerstroke. Possibly the best little diesel for a van, cube truck, or hotshot pickup. An IH built competitor to the Cummins ISB. I wonder how the two compare neck to neck? I think the 444 is available in Ford F600-700 chassis for straight trucks, as well as International chassis. It is a parent bore V8 engine. Big use in school busses.

If anyone else has an engine or facts they would like to add or dispute, please feel free! How 'bout some gas engines for vans?
-Weave-
(This was fun- took me 1 hour and a couple of beers to compose )

 

[x06col]

My experience with the DT466 has been positive. I use the mechanical
type rated at 250hp. Plenty when fresh. After a few miles, 400,000+,
you need to drive it, and not aim it, when in the hills. Still, will have plenty to manage any east of the Mississippi, with relative ease. Plenty capable of passing, when the need arose. Would do 80+, but drove it at 60-65. (maybe we Farmall drivers are a little more conservative, is the reason you've not been passed) Engine presently
has 680,000 miles on it, without a rebuild. Been pricing an in-frame
and have quotes from $3650 to $4100. Reasonable, I feel. On mine I
had the bottom end done (Rods and Mains replaced) every 200,000, at a
cost of $500 - $600. That allowed a look-see at the inside for problems and gave me an additional 1yr/100,000 mile warranty on the
bottom end each time. Cheap insurance I felt. As for the newer 466E?
I dunno.

 

[Weave]

Wow, that price for an in frame rebuild sounds dirt cheap. An in-frame for a Cummins C8.3 is around $7000 with turbo, which isn't too bad but around 4 grand for the IH engine sounds great. I figured the DT466 engines must be fairly economical all around to run as you see so many in city service. Maybe I'll look into building an International C unit for my next rig.
-Weave-

 

[louixo]

Thanks for that info weave. That's about as thorough as an expediter needs, to go one on one with a truck salesman, and a real good tutorial for someone like me.

 

[Wild Bill]

We are running a 300 horsepower Cummins engine, attached to a 9 speed Eaton-Fuller transmission.

It has over 400,000 on the clock and there has been very few problems with it. If I ever buy a truck of my own that will be the configuration I will spec. It's not too big and it's not to small.

 

[mikecop]

I also want to express my appreciation to Weave for all the good info about engines which might be used for Business Class trucks. My trusty Canon printer has been used a number of times as I retain a file of technical info based on his input into this forum. Thanks.

 

[simon says]

I recently purchased a 2000 Pete 330 with a ISC 8.3, 300 hsp. mated to an automated Eaton 6. Finally have a good spec expediter truck, geared to run fast with good power theoretically, but the engine runs cold. Truck was spec'd with a viscous fan, and after much buck-passing by Cummins/Pete, the Pete dealer in WI. determined it should have had a air/electric controlled fan (Horton or Kyser). Pete's tech says they have had problems with this engine running cold- operates at about 155 F after thermostat opens at 175-180 then falls back at any road speed. Usually stays at 155 with 1000 rpm overnight-set, and luckily has decent cab heat. Fuel efficiency and smell is atrocious, and power is actually being derated. Pete should just eat the cost and put the new fan on, but I know they are trying a cheaper route; hotter thermo and/or winter front. I suspect that neither will work as manual clearly calls for 180 stat and implies air fan usage. Anyone else in this boat? Do you FL 70 guys have an air fan? and will it solve the problem?

 

[NEVERHOME247]

WE RUN A CLASS 8 D-UNIT WITH 500HP DETROI SERIES 60 MATED UP WITH A 10 SPEED ROCKWELL TRANS. WE MAINTAINED THIS ENGINE VERY WELL AND THEN SOME. HAS 326K ON IT AND NEVER HAD A PROBLEM TILL LAST WEEKEND. WHICH UNFORTUNATELY WAS OUR 1ST WEEK BACK OUT AFTER THE HOLIDAYS. WE NOTICED SOME OIL DRIPPING OUT THE EXHAUST SIDE OF THE TURBO. SO WE LIMPED IT BACK TO THE HOUSE. WELL DETROIT PUT IT ON THE DYNO AND FOUND WE HAD EXCESSIVE CRANKCASE PRESSURE. WELL TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT IT IS IN THE SHOP NOW. THEY ARE DOING A COMPLETE IN-FRAME OVERHAUL. THE ONLY GOOD THING IS THEY ARE DOING IT UNDER WARRANTY. HAS 5YR 500K WARRANTY. WHAT CAUSED THE EARLY WEAR? EVIDENTLY DETROIT DISCOVERED A PROBLEM W/THEIR CONNECTING RODS. PART OF THIS OVERHAUL THEY ARE REPLACING ALL THE RODS WITH DRILLED RODS FOR BETTER LUBRICATION. SO IF ANY ONE HAS A DETROIT AND IS HAVING A SIMILIAR PROBLEM, MAY WANT TO HAVE THEM TAKE A LOOK SEE. WHILE IT IS STILL UNDER WARRANTY. THE GUY AT THE SHOP TOLD ME IF I HAD TO PAY IT WOULD COST ME ABOUT 16K FOR THE IN-FRAME. NOT A GOOD WAY TO START OUT THE NEW YEAR...

 

[guest]

Another DT466E owner here. We have a 2001 4700 with the 230 HP version. So far at 110,000 miles, zero problems. Just basic PM work, so far. Like some of the others have said, not the fastest truck in the pack, but we still can keep up with most of 'em. We have an Allison tranny which probably is not quite as fast off the line as a 6 or 7 speed, but it sure is nice in Chicago rush hour traffic.

Never heard a bad word about these engines, and compared to a Cat, it's QUIET.

 

[Weave]

Haven't heard of that problem with DDC series 60's. Maybe a new one? I know the older Series 60's had piston casting problems, but I'll have to ask around about this high oil pressure thing or any rod modifications. I wonder which models of the 60 are affected?
-Weave-

 

[Weave]

Whatever you do, DO NOT convert to a Horton electric system. They are a pain in the ##### and have more little sensors to give you problems than you'll ever know. Plus the clutch costs $400 every time its rubber shock suspender breaks and pulls the wires out of the housing. Not to mention the irritating kick on-off noise it makes.
The ISC 8.3 has two thermostats- and this engine will run a very steady 180 degrees if the viscous fan and both stats are operating properly. I would have the dealer replace both thermostats.
The FL70 I ran for a guy with ISC did not budge off 180 degrees ever.
I would hear the viscous fan speed up when climbing long grades, but the temp never went up, and never went down in the cold, and the grille was never covered. I think one of your stats is sticking open.
-Weave-

 

[simon says]

Thanx Weave; too late though as Pete put the Horton on and I sprung for a winter front by Beltron, sold by Pete. Found the real problem however; water temp sensor for dash was low in the jacket where the cold water is. Cummins figured it out finally and Pete is re-imbursing me for moving. Temp on dash guage now is about 175 or so, and probably never had road speed heat problem. Horton fan does spin slower than viscous at idle (1000 rpm), and heat reaches 200 overnight so smell disipated. Won't use winter front now very often, but can use snaps for bug screen later. This business just keeps costing...don't it!

 

[Weave]

Yes, it does get to you after a while. One thing about cooling systems- the engine will need to be running 165-170 degrees to have any appreciable cab heat. That might have clued me in to the faulty sensor as it would definitely make no heat at 155. The Horton system adds a sensor in the cylinder head that kicks the fan on- be careful, it does not last too long. One cool thing you can do with a Horton is add a switch in the cab to manually turn the fan on when climbing long grades. I did this with mine. Replace the rubber suspension thing at least every 2 years or you'll be spending the dreaded $400.00 for a new clutch.
-Weave-

 

[bojangles1]

I had the same problem with a cat 3116 with a viscous fan. Always ran cool. It was hard to keep it warm in the winter even with a winter front. The smell was bad as was the fuel mileage. Piston wash from unburned fuel is also a concern from running below 160 degrees.