E-Logs vs Drivers Harassment

moose

Veteran Expediter
The Expansion of the Q-Data appeal process to accommodate the enforcement of HOS via an EOBR mandate.

This letter is to be addressed To Anne Ferro, the FMCSA and other Gov. Officials at the upcoming MATS.

Thank you so very much for making this forum available,
Everyone following Miss Ferro sees that this is not done by accident just to satisfy a court challenge.
The FMCSA have reached out for drivers input for some time now.
The FMCSA is a regular visited on the XM trucking radio show.
It was actually a remark made at the Dave Nemo show by the agency 2 weeks ago, that made me wrights this letter, and provide a solution.
In that show, an administrator said they recognized the needs for a rule that can apply for individual fatigue operation needs, but are forced to a one size fits all rule.
This letter will provide the agency with the tool they need to allow the FMCSA an individual focus while still hold to the one size fits all HOS rules.
And May we say it is about time the administrator will realize who are its customers, and who will be the end user of your product.
It is about time you have a listening session in places that provide for a trucks parking. We can only hope that in near future you will have a same sessions regarding HOS, drivers health, sleep apnea, and other issues, in places where truckers park.
You do so, and I will be there to provide solutions for those issues.

Let’s see what happens when you have a meeting in places that do not provide for truck parking.
Let’s see what happens just last week, when you had a meeting in WDC regarding crash accountability. You had the ATA there. As a result, the person representing the ATA in that meeting told XM world, they attended that meeting to make sure the agency hear the voice of the trucking industry.
Miss Ferro, let me make it very clear, The ATA does not represent the trucking industry. Yet the Agency relay on input provided by those self interests groups in the rule making process.
Industry records speak of 92% of all trucking carriers, operating a fleet of 20 trucks or less. Many of which have already endures the voluntary, and now illegal, used of E-Logs. Drivers harassment virtually dose not exists for small carriers. Using EOBR’s to harass drivers is only the problem in large fleets. There’s a good rezone for that. Small fleets know their drivers, the supply chain knows the drivers, they care about them and will work with the carrier to accommodate safe operation of a truck.
You want to find a solution, you speak with truckers, not self interest groups, not safety advocates, not no one that does not share the roads with us, and you defiantly do not form an advisory comity base sully on individuals that are poised to make a buck, or whole lotta money, as a results of a future regulations. You speak to those guys, or an association that spends over 352 million dollar a quarter in lobbying WDC, and you will continue to be fed with the same wrong and incorrect data.
Thank you very much for today opportunity, and we can only hope you will repeat this practice in the future.

The whole point of today gathering is to find a way to address the court concern regarding drivers harassment, so the agency can come up with a long lasting EOBR rule that can not only withstand a future court action, but can also work in the real world for professional drivers.
This letter will do just that.
It WILL protect the agency from the likelihood of a future court challenge.
It will create a system where drivers can endorse Electronic logs,
& more importantly, it will build the supply chain working environment in which truckers can continue to stribe, make a buck, and enjoy our industry, while still be in full compliance with HOS regulation. This letter will challenge the administration to say out loud that they are indeed looking for safety improvements, via enforcements of the HOS.
Before I am continuing reading this letter, we would like the administrator to say it out loud in front of everyone in the room, that you are committed to that statement. That you are indeed looking for a tool that will allow you an enforcement of HOS via mandatory electronic logs. We can’t stress this enough, we need your commitment to make this happens, and we need this upfront.
.
Thank you so very much.
And without further delay, let me please introduce my letter.
This letter called:

“The Expansion of the Q-Data appeal process to accommodate for the enforcement of HOS via an EOBR mandate.”

We all know what the Q-Data appeal process is. It is a place for drivers to challenge a violation. The Q-Data appeal process is not perfect. Not at all. We goanna make it better. Via the Q-Data drivers can file an appeal, and then the agency goes back to the officer that gave the violation on the side of the road asking the LEO if that violation still needs to be filed. Basically asking the cat to watch the milk bowl. This system is all we got, for now, it is by far not perfect, but with some hard work we can make it better. So much better that I do believe we can use that tool to allow for an industry wide electronic log mandate. All we need to do is allow the system to collect a driver’s input data, once an HOS violation occur.
Here is how it will work.
Let us please take a look at the DAC report system. Under that system, the DOT, via a privet company, is collecting carriers input for rezones of driver termination. DAC only has 6 predetermined options for carriers to choose from. And the carrier does not need to provide detailed records. It has, and still is affecting the ability of drivers to find work. The DAC report is by far the largest stick carriers have to harass drivers. When we go away with the DAC report, and instead incorporate such report into the Q-Data system, Carriers will no longer have that option of harassing drivers. What carriers will have, under Q-Data is the accountability for provide supporting documents of an entry, and the option of going through an appeal process.
Frankly once the Q-data system is up and running, there’s no rezone anymore for a parallel DAC report. Especially once the agency determined under the BASIC that driver’s turnover indeed effect road safety.
Drivers that are instructed to move their rigs, while in violation of HOS, drivers that will be forced to drive to do their jobs, meet impassible schedules, or make it back home, needs to be allow to report this happening. This is very important. As this will allow drivers to stay in business over time, and will hold the supply chain accountable for their actions.
In places where trucks can stop, In places that provide for a truck parking safe heavens, in places that are stuffed to accommodate trucks when those trucks are allowed to be moved, in those places, and only in those place, log book moving violation do not occur.
From that point on, the FMCSA will have data showing the location, and type of violation, and can use such data to prevent violations from repeating in those locations. If choose to, the agency can provide for an intervention fresh hold, just like in the SMS system, determining percentage wise places that abused drivers, and finely doing something about it.
As long as the FMCSA will not take an active role, to force the supply chain to accommodate for a safe truck operation, the expected EOBR rule will rightly be challenge at court by professional drivers.
Problem is, the DOT dose not imposed regulations over shippers/receivers/carriers/brokers/local municipality’s/county’s/and states… this is correct, up until we consider the federal hwy funding system.
If this letter will be accepted, we will see places that do business with trucks, working together with carriers, and local jurisdictions to provide for truck parking. We will see shippers and receivers staffed up and open long hours to accommodate for truck operation, and we will see ample opportunity for local and regional operations. It will be newfound lands for small business, where we can compete with the big boys. Industry records show that 92% of our industry is made out of small trucking operations, 20 trucks or less. These new regulations will not change that.
However, on the local delivery level, we see most of the freight being moved in town by large carriers. This is due to a decade of regulations placing trucks safe heaven out of reach for small business. Ignoring trucker’s voice and allowing for shippers input.
A short look at the new Clean Energy LNG fueling stations, that are being build today all across the country by the Obama administration, is all we need to prove just that.
Miss Ferro, your job is to improve safety on our hwy’s and streets. The Gov. has no place managing free markets. If all, Gov. Job is to stay out of the way of business, and to provide for same business opportunity, for small business, which is the hardcore of our economy.
This new regulations will do just that, it will place the burden of providing safe truck operations on the shoulder of businesses that pay to move freight, and at the shoulders of places that consume truck operations. Once we are protected from the supply chain abuse, we can accommodate for E-Logs.
Miss. Ferro, this is the choice the administrations need to make, you have a big stick, and you can use it at will. You have the authority to hold carriers that in the wrong, you have the authority to hold brokers responsible for their actions, you have the tools to tell shippers and receivers they need to provide for truck parking, and you have the tools to force city’s counties and states to build safe haven that will accommodate for the trucks traffic going through and doing business with them.
You can do all of that, or you can leave the poor o’l trucker holding the stick, in which case we will meet once again in court.
Every professional trucker out here today will say the same thing. Carriers and brokers are in business to abused truckers time, they do so by abusing truckers, one at a time, and by spinning the revolving door. You are the only one that in a position to stop this abused.
Not excepting this letter will show everyone that you do not stands for promises you made today, and by far it will show that you in business to promote big money over truckers back.
The golden egg laying cash cow drivers stop here, if you so wisely choose to.
Driver harassment will only stop, when we vacant the financial incentive for carriers to harass drivers.
Or you can choose a peel that treats the symptoms,
Your choice.
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
Please tell me you're going to have this proof-read before you send it.

--

You know the problem with bad cops? They make the other 5% look bad.
 

moose

Veteran Expediter
Will do.
any more idea's ?
it was 1st published here, for you guys to help me perfect this.
so, any more inputs ?
 

Monty

Expert Expediter
Give me a chance to find a free couple of hours, and I'll edit it .... I may not agree with all you say, but I'll try to convey your thoughts, not mine. Do you wish it posted here ...... or emailed to you?
 

moose

Veteran Expediter
You think your Sprinter is large enough for all of this ?
LoL
yes Post @ will,
or if you choose to you can Email me @ [email protected]

I do not know if i can make it to the show, depends on Monday load, but even if i can, i dough they will allow me, or someone i know, to read all of that.
so once i,(we), get if finalized, i'd like to take it to a OfficeMax,print it in a nice folder a few times, and give it away.
thanks for all your help.
i do not expect anyone to agree with ALL i have to say, but i think it is important that we will capitalized on a new opportunity to speak up, and maybe change the rule making process to allow for future drivers input on matters that effect professional drivers more then anyone else.

O'h guess what i just realized, you guys are just a 'Lay-Out-Shooters'...
 

Rocketman

Veteran Expediter
You might be surprised. That may look long in written form, but it doesnt look like it would take long to speak.

You can always do a practice reading of it using a timer...of any sort...to get an idea of just how lengthy it is. It doesnt look too long to me.
 

Monty

Expert Expediter
Ok Moose, here is my Sprinter full ....

I could probably do more with it given time .... but I think this says things a bit more clearly, and perhaps a bit more diplomaticaly also.

[/i]

The Expansion of the Q-Data appeal process to accommodate the enforcement of HOS via an EOBR mandate.

(This letter is to be addressed To Anne Ferro, the FMCSA and other Government Officials at the upcoming MATS.)


Thank you so very much for making this forum available, and allowing me an opportunity to speak on a subject that is very important to me, and to the trucking industry

May I take a moment to thank the the administrator for realizing who are its customers, and who will be the end user of your product.

Anyone keeping current with Ms Ferro, and the FMCSA missives understands this is not done by accident but rather to satisfy a court challenge. The FMCSA has reached out for drivers input for some time now.

The FMCSA regularly appears on the XM satellite trucking radio shows, appearing to reach out to, and seeking input from drivers.

Recently a remark made on the Dave Nemo show by a FMCSA representatives prompted me write this letter, and offer a solution.

During that show, an administrator said they. “recognized the need for a rule that can apply for individual fatigue operation needs, but are forced to a one size fits all rule.“ I disagree that they truly are, and here is why.

Hopefully these suggestions will contain the information the agency needs to allow the FMCSA an individual focus while still holding true to the one size fits all HOS rules.

The time is long overdue that you had a listening session in places that provide for a trucker to park. Thank you for being here. We can only hope that in near future you will have a same sessions regarding HOS, drivers health, sleep apnea, and other issues, in places where truckers park.​
This has always been a major stumbling block to driver participation, we simply can not get there during our normal business day.​

Providing such a venue assures myself, and others, will be in attendance to provide possible solutions for those issues, and they will be valid, workplace solutions, coming from those that must comply.

Just last week, you had a meeting in Washington, DC regarding crash accountability. You had the ATA there. (They don't have a concern with parking) As a result, the person representing the ATA in that meeting told us on XM satellite radio, they attended that meeting to make sure the agency hear the voice of the trucking industry.​

Miss Ferro, let me make it very clear, The ATA does not represent the trucking industry, they represent carriers.. Yet the FMCSA relies on input provided by those self interest groups in the rule making process.​

Industry records speak of 92% of all trucking carriers, operating a fleet of 20 trucks or less. Many of which have already endured the voluntary, and now illegal, use of E-Logs.​
Drivers harassment virtually dose not exists for small carriers.​
Using EBOR’s to harass drivers is only the problem in large fleets. There’s a good reason for that. Small fleets know their drivers, shippers and receivers know the drivers, they care about them and will work with the carrier to accommodate safe operation of a truck.​

If you are truly interested in finding a solution, speak with truckers, not self interest groups, not safety advocates, nor people that do not share the roads with us, and you definitely do not form an advisory committee based solely on individuals that are poised to make a large profit as a result of a future regulations.​
If you continue to speak to individuals, or an associations, that spend over 352 million dollar a quarter in lobbying Washington, DC, will continue to be fed with the same wrong and incorrect data. The data they wish you to hear, in their own self interests.

The whole point of today gathering, as I understand it, is to find a way to address the court concern regarding drivers harassment, so the agency can come up with a long lasting EOBR rule that can not only withstand a future court action, but can also work in the real world for professional drivers. These suggestions, hopefully, will do just that.​

It will protect the agency from the likelihood of a future court challenge. It will create a system where drivers can endorse Electronic logs, and more importantly, it will build the supply chain working environment in which truckers can continue to strive to make a liveable wage, provide for their families and enjoy our industry, while still be in full compliance with HOS regulation.​
This letter intends to challenge the administration that they are indeed looking for safety improvements, via enforcement of the HOS.​

Before I continue, I would like the administrator to confirm publicly, that you are committed to that statement.​
That you are indeed looking for a tool that will allow you an enforcement of HOS via mandatory electronic logs. We can’t stress this enough, we need your commitment to make this happens, and we need this upfront.​
May I have your comment on this, before I continue?
.
Thank you for your response..​

Please allow me a few more minutes to read my proposals.



I make an assumption we all know what the Q-Data appeal process is.
It is a place for drivers to challenge a violation. The Q-Data appeal process is not perfect. Not at all. We strive make it better.
Via the Q-Data drivers can file an appeal, your agency then questions the officer that gave the violation on the side of the road asking the LEO if that violation still needs to be filed.
Basically that asking the cat to watch the milk bowl.​

This system is all we have, for now, it is not perfect by far. but with some hard work we can make it better. So much better that I do believe we can use that tool to allow for an industry wide electronic log mandate.​

All we need do is allow the system to collect a driver’s input data, once an HOS, or other violation occurs. Here is how it will work.​

Let us take a look at the DAC report system. Under that system, the DOT, using a private company, is collecting carriers input for reasons of driver termination. DAC only has 6 predetermined options for carriers to choose from.

And the carrier does not need to provide detailed records.​
It has, and still is, affecting the ability of drivers to find work.

The DAC report is by far the largest stick carriers have to harass drivers. Whether the data entered be true, or not, a challenge to it is basically useless.​

When we eliminate the DAC report, and instead incorporate such reporting into the Q-Data system, Carriers will no longer have that option of impuning drivers.

What carriers will have, under Q-Data is the responsibility for provide supporting documents of an entry, and the option of going through an appeal process.​

Frankly once the Q-data system is up and running, there’s no more reason for a parallel DAC report. Especially since the agency determined under the BASIC rules that driver turnover indeed was effecting road safety.

I'm certain this move would be challenged by DAC and other industry leaches, such as insurance companies that would see a lucrative business model disbanded.​

Drivers that are instructed, by their carriers to move their rigs, while in violation of HOS; forced to drive to perform their jobs; meet impossible schedules, or make it back home, need a vehicle to report this happening.​

This is very important. It will allow drivers recourse, and will hold the carriers, shippers and receivers accountable for their actions. Actions that often are in violation of the present HOS rules.​

In places where trucks can not stop in places that provide for truck parking, that are to crowded to accommodate trucks; when shippers and receivers disallow parking on premise, when those trucks are demanded to be moved, no log book moving violation should occur.​

A driver has no control over these situations, but still needs the mandated off duty time. A simple notation in the remarks section will explain the movement, in violation of the recorded data. And no chargeable HOS violation would be assigned to the driver. Nor would it break his in progress time off.​

Of course this rule would require the driver to only move to the closest location for approved parking.​

That notated information would provide the FMCSA data showing the location, and type of violation, and FMCSA can then use such data to prevent violations from repeating in those locations.​

If they choose to, the agency can provide for an intervention threshold, just like in the SMS system, determining by percentage locations that abuse driver's HOS and finally have information to correct it.​

As long as the FMCSA will not take an active role, to force the supply chain to accommodate for a safe truck operation, the expected EOBR rule will rightly be challenge in court by professional drivers.​

Problem is, the DOT does not impose regulations over shippers, receivers, brokers nor local municipalities, counties and states… this is correct, up until we consider the federal highway funding system.​

If these suggestions are implemented, we will see places doing business with truckers, working together with carriers, and local jurisdictions to provide for truck parking.​
We might see shippers and receivers staffed up and open long hours to accommodate for truck operation to and we will see ample opportunity for local and regional operations.​

It will be new found business for small business, where we can compete with the big boys. Remember, industry records show that 92% of our industry is made out of small trucking operations, 20 trucks or less. These new regulations will not change that.​

However, on the local delivery level, we see most of the freight being moved in town by large carriers. This is due to a decade of regulations placing safe parking out of reach for small business. Ignoring the trucker’s voice and allowing for shippers input.​

A short look at the new Clean Energy LNG fueling stations, that are being build today all across the country by the current administration, is all we need to verify that.​

Ms Ferro, your job is to improve safety on our highways and in the industry. The Government. has no place managing free markets. If at all, the government's job is to stay out of the way of business, and to provide for same business opportunity, for small business, as for larger carriers, which is the hardcore of our economy.​

These new regulations will do just that, it will place the burden of providing safe truck operations on the shoulder of businesses that pay to move freight, and at the shoulders of places that consume truck operations. Once we are protected from the supply chain abuse, we can accommodate for E-Logs.​

Ms Ferro, this is the choice the administration, in my opinion. (and in the opinion of others I have spoke with), needs to make, you have a big stick, and you can use it at will.
You have the authority to hold carriers responsible that are creating these HOS violations with unrealistic demands on their drivers.​

You have the tools to compel shippers and receivers to provide for truck parking, or to have them state where such parking is readily available to their facility. And you have the tools to make it LEGAL for a driver to move to those parking spaces, even if exceeding HOS rules, as written​

And while you do not have the authority to force another government agency to provide parking at their expense, you do have the tools to require cities, counties and states to designate available truck parking in their jurisdiction that will accommodate for the truck traffic going through, and doing business with them.​

You can do all of that, or you can leave the trucker, (the driver, not the carrier), holding the stick, in which case we will meet once again in court.​

I believe most every professional trucker out here today will agree​

Carriers and brokers are in business to abuse truckers time, either by intent, or lack of knowledge of the FMCSA rules and they do so by abusing individual truckers, one at a time, and by spinning that revolving door that opens to driver turnover.​

You are the only one in a position to stop this abuse.​

Hopefully accepting these suggestions will show everyone that you do indeed stand for promises you made today, and by far it will show that you are not in the business to promote big money over truckers health, safety and ability to earn a living wage. As the administration is quick promote.​

Driver harassment, and public safety violations of the HOS rules will only stop, when we vacate the financial incentive for carriers, shippers and receivers to make the drivers responsible for the shortcomings they, (not the driver) created.​

Or you can choose a path that treats the symptoms​

Your choice.​

Thank you for you consideration of these thoughts of mine, and perhaps those of other drivers, (not carriers represented by the ATA and big money), that feel as I do.​

 
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moose

Veteran Expediter
Thanks a Million.

it took me some 16 minutes to read it out loud .

one point.
i am using the term 'safe heaven' as much as possible, rather then 'truck parking',
because i do think it is important.
in the future we can challenge the authority's to understands what it take to rest in a truck.
in my view there's no rezone why the Gov. won't regulate noise pollution.
there are already self interests group that working to disallow drivers from sleeping in a truck.
we need to beat them to the line.
 
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Monty

Expert Expediter
"safe havens" have a specfic meaning, already defined in the FMCSA language, pertaining toparking for hazardous shipments ... and they confuse easily! :D
 

moose

Veteran Expediter
Well, i need something to bite with.
in one of my original scratches, there was a paragraph, right in the beginning, about the Jason's Law.
saying that inspire me to move forward with this letter, which it did, and taking the Jason's Law to a new level.
my thinking was that it will gain some more attention from peoples already doing something about parking, and eliminate more voices against my letter because no one can speak against a desist drivers who was murderer in his sleep do to the luck of a safe places to park,
which is why i called those 'safe heavens'.
in a later version i removed that paragraph ,thinking it was too long, and they can read right through me.
what do you all think.
 

moose

Veteran Expediter
I say let E'm get confused.
if asked, i will point out they give safe heaven for paints and battery's, but they refused to recognized the needs of professional drivers to park in a safe place.
just like they place pets health before health drivers, and vegetable freshness before truckers life.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Let Scott re-write it. It will be 10 words max and stop them in their tracks...lol

Then Ragman will find the pic that replaces the other 990 words - brilliant!

Seriously: good job Moose, and NAN - thanks for putting it out there.
 

beachbum

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
What everyone seems to forget is that the government has no right to tell any shipper or receiver how to run their business.

I for one I'm getting tired of truck drivers complaint about regulations, then wanting the gOvernment to try and regulate companies. To me it's being two faced when it comes to regulations.
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
What everyone seems to forget is that the government has no right to tell any shipper or receiver how to run their business.

I for one I'm getting tired of truck drivers complaint about regulations, then wanting the gOvernment to try and regulate companies. To me it's being two faced when it comes to regulations.

...and yet they have the right to tell individual drivers? You can't be against telling a shipper they can't demand their shipment be transported in a manner that violates a safety reg but for telling an individual driver how long he can drive, or that he must keep a log that becomes a legal document and can be used to prosecute him.

2012: Ron Paul or not at all.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.
 

clcooper

Expert Expediter
What everyone seems to forget is that the government has no right to tell any shipper or receiver how to run their business.

I for one I'm getting tired of truck drivers complaint about regulations, then wanting the gOvernment to try and regulate companies. To me it's being two faced when it comes to regulations.


The Government has all the right to tell any shipper or receiver how to run their business. When they are using Harassment as part of their business .

“I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.”
 

beachbum

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
The government can tell drivers what to do since they control interstate freight per the United States Constitution.

A private business that ships freight or the receiver is different since their not the carrier, since only the carrier is regulated per the Constitution.

If you want to be paid to seat at the shipper or receiver then charge them for your time. Most companies have detention time built into the contracts but most refuse to bill the shippers or receivers for the time for fear of losing them. Therefore, blame the trucking companies for this problem.

How does a shipper or receiver harasses a driver, please tell the world.
 
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