Dream Van turns 3

[dieseldoctor1]

My Dream Van just turned three years old so I thought I would update everyone on how it is doing. Maybe this will be helpful to someone thinking about buying a new van to start their career in expediting or thinking about upgrading their present van. It is strictly for information purposes and not trying to sell anyone anything or to disparage anyone’s equipment. For those not familiar with the Dream Van you can find info at these two links.

ttp://www.expeditersonline.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=348&forum=DCForumID16

http://www.expeditersonline.com/dcforum/DCForumID16/519.html

I have updated it with some new accessories since these were posted but basically it is the same. On its third year anniversary it had 433,417 miles and 9,584.7 hrs. As far as service it has been great. Due to my experiences with my two previous vans, (98 E250 367,000 miles/ 02 E350 377,000miles) I pull the alternator and have it rebuilt every 250,000 miles just as a precaution. That usually costs about $65.00. I replaced the serpentine belt at that time and since the old one looked perfect, I carry it with me as a spare. One of the belt idler pulley bearings got noisy so I replaced both of them. Total cost $4.47. I replace the spark plugs about every 100,000 miles per Ford’s recommendation. I lost a fuel pump in California at 232,000 miles and had to be hauled in from the desert so that deal cost me about $750.00. I will be replacing the fuel pump ever 200,000 to prevent that from happening again. I have made an access through the floor of the van so the fuel pump can be changed without dropping the tank. At approximately 385,000 I did a brake job all the way around at a cost of $125.47. About 400,000 I replaced the water pump and thermostat. Old ones were fine but I figured I had got my moneys worth out of them and didn’t want to break down on the road. Water pump (Genuine Ford) was $176.60. That and oil and filter changes are all the maintenance I have had to do to this van. About the same record as the two previous vans. I change oil by the hour meter. If I am home and it is close to 100 hrs since last change I change it. If I get caught out on the road and it is close to 200 hrs, I will have it changed unless I know I will be home before it gets over 200 hrs.
Since I considered a Ford/ Chevy diesel and a Sprinter when I was shopping for this van I have written down the cost of diesel every time I fueled up so I could see how cost for fuel would compare. Based strictly on cost of fuel used, assuming that a diesel got me 5 MPG better fuel economy I would have paid off the extra $6000.00, the Ford /Chevy Diesel would have cost me, about 6 months ago. On the extra $7500.00 that the closest equipped Sprinter I could have gotten would have cost me, I would still be in the hole. Considering the extra routine maintenance the Ford/Chevy diesel requires (more oil, more expensive filters, Fuel supplements, etc) I still think I would be in the hole on it also.
One thing to consider concerning fuel usage is that I idle my engine to stay warm and cool. As noted in the above links I have a thermostat in our sleeping area and we set it at 62 degrees for winter and 80 for summer. When temp drops below 62 the engine starts and runs for 15 minutes to warm the van up. I ran a check one night in Feb. We went to bed with the outside temp at 7 degrees. We got up 8.5 hrs later with the outside temp at –4. Van had ran 3.6 hrs and used 2.52 gallons of gas. I had paid $2.179 for the gas so it cost me $5.49 to stay warm that night. Now there’s no doubt that an Espar heater is a good heater. But $1700 dollars divided by $5.49 means I could spend 309 nights at those extreme temps just to pay for the heater if it didn’t burn a drop of fuel. A night in the 30’s will usually have the van starting twice which means 30 minutes or .35 gallons of fuel, which means about $.77 per night. Average would be somewhere in between the $.77 and the $5.49. On staying cool, above about 95 degrees with no shade, the van will run 15 minutes then stay shut off for about 5 minutes and start again. That’s when I turn the ignition on and let it idle steady. With a Ford or Chevy diesel I could use the same system. Sprinter I would have to spend more money and weight for some other system. I really haven’t seen a good system yet.
On the subject of Gas versus Diesel, this doesn’t apply to vans or expediting, but I thought it was very interesting. GM is touting their gas engines as being cheaper to use in medium duty trucks that run fewer than 25,000 miles per year. Check it out at www.whygasengines.com . You really need a high speed internet connection or a heap of patience though.
As for the Sprinter from what I found when doing my research in 2003 and what has been discussed on this forum, plus talking to every Sprinter owner I could corner, it seems the routine maintenance on them is pretty high. Take oil changes. Seems the cost at most dealers is between $100.00 and $125.00. Guys that do their own can shop for oil and filters and lower their costs to approx. $70.00. I can get my gas Ford changed on the road for less than $30.00 and if I do it myself the parts are around $15.00. Figure the difference for 433,000 miles. Could be from $2000.00 to $4000.00 dollars. Automatic transmission and rear axle. Ford recommends that transmission fluid and filter and rear axle fluid be changed at 150,000 miles. I have had automatic transmissions since 1965 and have never changed fluid or filter on any of them and have never had a transmission problem of any kind. Well I will take that back. I did have a Jeep pickup where hay wrapped around the output shaft got under the seal lip and started it leaking. Removed the hay and refilled the transmission and had no further problems. I do add a bottle of limited slip lube to my rear axle evry 100,000 miles.Now this has worked for me. You make your own decision. Seems that the Sprinter calls for a transmission and rear axle fluid change every 80,000 miles with a service bulletin calling for that to change to every 60,000 miles. Let’s see. 433,417 divided by 80,000 would have meant 5 fluid changes at $300.00 for transmission and $75.00 for the rear axle That is $1875.00 I haven’t spent. If you go by the 60,000 recommendation, then I have saved $2625.00. Something to think about.
Another consideration is to search this forum and other forums concerning the Sprinter. Quite frankly it has a bad reputation. I’m not trying to disparage anyone but that is a fact. I know there are some 2003 Sprinters out there but I haven’t heard of but one with over 300,000 on it and it had an engine replaced. I’ve personally talked to at least three people that had to have an engine replaced before 200,000 and one of them also had to have the transmission replaced all at his expense. I’ve heard about many others having engine and transmission failures but it could be hearsay. Also have heard about a lot of transmission and front wheel bearing problems especially on Sprinters owned by plumbers, electricians, etc who run them loaded about all the time. And everybody has heard of the EGR valve problems, which I understand has been helped but not totally eliminated. Latest buzz is injector problems are developing on all diesels possibly due to the ULSD. That’s not what you need as tight as this business is today.
Folks all I’m trying to say is do your homework and think real hard before you buy any kind of van and get into expediting. It’s a tough business out here. But it can be very rewarding also. Good luck.

Dieseldoctor

 

[Turtle]

If you're against a Sprinter in the first place, you'll find a plethora of reasons not to get one. The reverse is also true. I had twp E-350's and specifically did not want another one, for my own reasons. The oft published problems with the Sprinter, all things considered, are very few and relatively minor. A Sprinter dealer (the parts guy) can tell you the national instance rate of a given problem, and even the most often posted problems are, percentage-wise, very rare occurrences. For every problem, parts must be ordered, and each instance is recorded in a national database, so they know how at what rate the problem is occurring. People simply don't go online and post, out of the blue, that they're not having a problem with this or that. Like, the turbo resonator problem. Reading online, you'd think that 80 or 90$ of all Sprinters have had a problem with that. Turns out, the instance rate is astonishingly low.

Yes, on many forums the Sprinter has a bad reputation. The same thing can be said for every vehicle and product in existence, yet vehicles with bad reputations and nightmarish maintenance issues rarely have steadily growing annual sales increases, which the Sprinter has. Go figure. Find out who does the maintenance for your local UPS and/or FedEx Sprinters, and talk to that guy. I did. Every time a problem pops up online I head for him. (in 230 UPS and FedEx vehicles he's had to replace 1 turbo resonator, and my Sprinter dealer has had to also replace only 1 of them in the last 4 years).

Yes, Sprinter maintenance costs are higher for a given maintenance procedure. Seems the cost at most dealers is between $100.00 and $125.00. Guys that do their own can shop for oil and filters and lower their costs to approx. $70.00.

Yes, but that's for fully synthetic Mobile 1 oil. Some can, and do, use Shell Rotella T and they can do that themselves for about $30, oil and filter included. I buy my filters for a little less than $7 and I buy synthetic Mobile 1 0W-40 oil in 10 quart jugs (I supply the jugs) from a local distributor for $38.00 a jug ($3.80 a quart, versus $6.99 a quart at some place like Autozone). I changed my oil today and it cost me a total of $43.00. I also change my oil filter every 5500 miles, and top off with new oil as needed between changes. Changing the filter and topping off increases my oil change interval to about 17,000 miles. It's changed via the Oil Quality Sensor's oil quality rating, rather than by actual miles or hours, so sometimes it's more or less mile (or hours). So, essentially, for each oil change, I use three oil filters and 11 quarts of oil, for a total of $62.00 every 17,000 miles. That's 25 oil changes over 433,000 miles for a total of $1550.00 or so. Not sure how many oil changes you do in those same 433,000 miles, but at 200 hours, it's got to be close to 45-50 or so, probably every 9000 miles equivalent, which is about the same cost all things considered (50 oil changes at $30 per). I used to change the oil in the Ford about every 3 weeks, in the Sprinter it's about every 7, and overall the costs are about the same. <shrug>

I have an Espar heater and it allows for zero wear and tear on the engine, the vast majority of which occurs within the first five minutes of a cold start, and it burns well under a gallon of fuel a night (at $2.179 or at $2.899 per gallon) even at sub-zero temperatures. When the outside temps are below freezing, down to about -20, the Espar will use up right at one gallon every 15 1/2 hours. Colder than that, and I'm not sure, 'cause I haven't been where it's been below -20 yet. At warmer temperatures, it consumes considerably less fuel. And this is keeping the van's internal temperature at a very comfortable 75 degrees or so. Comfortable enough that I can sleep naked on top of the covers rather than sleeping clothed under them (or worse, wearing a flight suit inside a zipped-up -30 degree sleeping bag). I don't live uncomfortable at home, nor on the road. Those who are comfortable being uncomfortable, more power to ya.

As for fuel mileage, all miles driven and all gallons used since day one taken into consideration, with idling and Espar burning, the whole bit, I've gotten 18.691 miles per gallon. When idling time is removed, under normal circumstances, loaded and unloaded averages, I've gotten 19.991 miles per gallon. I average about 19.0 loaded and 22.1 unloaded, depending on the loaded weight, of course.

Having a Sprinter has been an education, to say the lest. Everything you know (or thought you knew) about cars, vans and trucks have to be set aside. You learn that with European engines, the oil and the engine are incredibly tightly spec'd together, and you can't just use any ol' oil off the shelf, much less the tried and true oil additives, like Lucas, that can be used in other engines. You learn that, unlike a Ford, Chevy or Dodge, you do, actually, have to change the transmission fluid (I never, not even once, had the transmission fluid changed in any of my vehicles, and never, not even once, had a problem). There are other quirks, as well. But are these quirks any worse than another type of van, or are they merely different?

I'm two months shy of a full year with this Sprinter, and using projected figures for the routine maintenance, I do know, for sure, that my first year maintenance and operating dollars for the Sprinter are going to be less than that of the E-350. Sprinter maintenance costs more when it's performed, but it's performed less frequently. The increase of fuel mileage is significant, even with the higher cost of diesel. And, I fully expect to be able to put more miles on this engine than on a Ford Gasoline engine.

But, quite honestly, even if the Sprinter cost more to operate annually than the Ford, I'd be fine with that. I'm comfortable and happy in my Sprinter, which is important to me since I come out here for 2-3 months at a time, sometimes more. It's a freight-capable RV and it serves me well.

 

[davekc]

If I was doing a van, I still like the areocell concept. Deisel did a great job on that one. Very interesting observations when making comparisons though.









Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[talkinghorse43]

What mpg did you actually get?

 

[Packmule]

Dave,
I have seen you state many times that you like the Areocell concept and I am a bit curious as to your thoughts on these units.
I looked at the Areocell very strongly, and liked what I saw. They are very well constructed, very aerodynamic, and offer a lot of factory options. The only problem I encountered was the weight factor. Staying under the 10,001# limit and having a reasonable cargo capacity was impossible.
If or when all Vans are required to log and scale then I will again look at them and probably go in that direction.
I would just like to hear your take on this vehicle.
I commend the Doctor on his update on his Areocell DRW, and would like to hear more from him on subjects like handling characteristics,
any construction flaws that he may have found or would have done differently.
This is great information for Vanners in this industry, and for those looking at entering the industry in a Van capacity.

Thanks Guy's
Danny

 

[pellgrn]

I have ford vans 1999-2006 and had a gmc 2003,three of my current vans are diesel 7.3 and two 6.0's my 06 is a e250 ford with the Accubuilt ext roof and doors.This is my first e250 and i must say what a difference in ride,i like the 5.4 gas i had a 99 i put over 300,000 on with no major trouble.The extra headroom gets me about a load per month,my mpg is around 14-15,the ride not as harsh as the 350's so if it holds up i foresee another e250 in my future.The gasers need more little stuff,and maintaince in general but my downtime with the diesels is much higher.I don't wrench and most ford dealers only have one or two diesel techs,the gasers can be worked on by most mechenics so you can get back inservice quicker.My friends gotta 02 sprinter,he's more of a local courier had minor stuff till about 250,000 then had to replace the engine.I think it was around 10,000$ a couple years ago now.If i could get a sprinter for 28,000$ with 0% interest for 60 months and no money down i would take a more serious look.

 

[Dreamer]

Deiseldoctor,
Glad to see you stopping by! It's been too long, I'd wondered how you were doing with that van! I still point folks to both of your builds, and actually have the pics saved to show 'em. I loved your orignial van, and the aero seems to be doing great for you!

Turtle,
Thanks for the other viewpoint too! Glad to see people providing facts and figures from their experience!

You guys are what makes for a good discussion!




Dreamer
Forums Administrator


--------------

 

[dieseldoctor1]

Turtle

Seems you took my post personal and I regret that. I only posted to try to share info on my van and share the info I have on diesels of all three brands and some info I have on the Sprinter. I’m sorry if I offended you, but I disagree with several of the issues.
I am not against the Sprinter. I just wanted to bring some things to people’s attention that they might not have access to. You stated that the published problems are very few and minor. I beg to differ. I have a friend that is district maintenance manager for the southeast division of one of the largest owners of Sprinters. He has shared some failure rates with me but requested I keep them to myself. He did say I could say that, although most of his vans are out of warranty, DC is picking up the tab for major failures (engines, trans, etc) on a pro-rated basis calculated by the miles of service on the part. I doubt that single van owners can get that help. On the turbo resonators, I could quote some interesting figures but won't in honor of his request. But think about something. There are aftermarket turbo resonators out there. Now to the best of my knowledge they are not out there as appearance items (chrome, etc), or performance items (increased power or mileage), but because they are a more durable version of an OEM part. And they are more expensive than the OEM part. Somebody had considerable expense to put those on the market. Would they have done that if there were no market out there?
On finding out from a partsman about the national instance rate (Failure history) of a given part. My parts people could see how many of a certain part our dealership had sold but could not access the OEM’s figures. Even I, as a dealer principle couldn’t get that info from any of our OEMs. Maybe times have changed
On the regular oil changes, it sounds like you have a good deal working by getting the oil in bulk, and I salute your ingenuity and thriftiness, but not everyone can get that deal or would want to round up jugs and go through all that. We spend a lot of nights in Wal-Mart parking lots and are usually buying snacks or drinks or something and we just swing by the automotive section and get the oil and filters I'm going to need. And not every one can or wants to do the oil change themselves. Heck, there are guys at Wal-Mart and other fast oil change places that shouldn't be getting paid to do oil changes. That's why I hate to have my van serviced on the road. That brings to mind that on another thread you mentioned that you have the Fumoto oil drain valve. I've had one of those for a couple of years and agree with you. It's a great product and very simple to operate. But it amazes me how many so- called mechanics can not figure it out even after I tell them and show them a picture of how it works. Also I tried to get my oil changed at a Wal-Mart, seems like in Arkansas, and they wouldn't change it because I had a "modified drain plug". The manager said Wal-Mart required them to certify that they had torqued the drain plug to a certain torque and they couldn't do that on my valve. One of the guys slipped me a name and phone number of an off duty employee and I went to his house and we changed my oil. I've since had an oil change at other Wal-Marts with no problem.
Also you are correct in your figures about the comparison of oil changes. I do change mine somewhere between 7500 and 10,000 miles. But I noticed you used the figures for changing the oil yourself, for your Sprinter, but used my figure, for having someone else do it, for my van. Not exactly comparing apples to apples. Fifty oil changes at $15.00 are $750.00. About half your $1550.00. We could get into fuel filters and air filters etc which I feel sure your cost will be much higher than mine will. I did the math when considering what to buy and hope I’ve raised enough interest among potential buyers for them to do the same. That’s my only purpose.
On the Espar heater, we have no argument there. As I said I think it is a fine unit. And it sounds like we enjoy about the same level of comfort. We sleep nude also but do use two of the polarfleece blankets and set the thermostat at 62 degrees. Anyone not familiar with the polarfleece blankets, they are just a little heavier than a flannel sheet. Very light weight but super warm. And it seems we are very similar in that we both believe in being very comfortable at home and in the van. I would think that over the 3 years and 433,000 miles your cost to stay warm and mine would about equal out. I would be interested in what you have worked out to keep you comfortable in the summer. I can sleep better in a cold van than I can in a hot one. I don’t like to idle my van steady but just haven’t found anything that will do the job economically. Would be interested in any ideas.
Was glad to get your figures on your fuel mileage. To answer talkinghorse my fuel mileage for the 3 years and 433,000 miles is 14.3 MPG. So looks like my calculations were pretty close. 5MPG guesstimation versus 4.4 MPG actual is pretty close. Don’t know how much your fuel supplement bill would be for 433,000 miles. Now one thing I failed to mention that also affects my fuel mileage is idling to recharge my aux batteries. I have two 6 volt golf cart batteries hooked in series for aux power. Everything electrical that I added to my van runs off the aux batteries. QC, Cooler, TV, reading lights, air compressor, bed winch, inverter, etc. The wife and I both have laptops and they have pretty powerful processors and we have both of them running a lot of the time. When the batteries were new and fully charged, they would run everything for 12 to 18 hrs. Now they are around two years old and it is down to about 8 to 12 hrs. Once they get down to about 11.2 volts, under load, the engine automatically starts and runs 15 minutes to charge the batteries. Now 15 minutes doesn’t even begin to fully charge the batteries. It will put enough charge in them to last about an hour if we are running both laptops. So we burn quite a bit of gas for battery charging. Just last week we spent about 40 hrs, waitng in first out position in a zone that had 8 loads in the last five days. Out of that 40 hrs, I didn’t check the hour meter before and after, but figure we idled about 8 hrs. Now that will ruin your MPG average. How to cure that? I’ve bought a starter/generator like was used on a lot of lawn tractors and have considered getting a small Honda gas engine to belt to it. But then I think about having to make a place for it on the front or back bumper. Having to fuel it every so often. And it will add weight to the van. Just not worth it in my opinion. Thinking about going to 3 AGM batteries hooked in parallel.
I see we both agree on transmission maintenance on the Ford/ Chevy transmissions. And we seem to agree on the differences between so called “domestic†and European cars and engines. They consider trans fluid changes, timing belt changes on certain engines, and the other “quirks†as you call them as routine maintenance but I consider them major design defects because they cost money “domestic†brands don’t. Just my opinion. I admit it! I’m cheap and want to keep my money. I know dealerships need to make money. Heck I was part owner of one. But I don’t like to spend money if I don’t have to.


"I'm two months shy of a full year with this Sprinter, and using projected figures for the routine maintenance, I do know, for sure, that my first year maintenance and operating dollars for the Sprinter are going to be less than that of the E-350. Sprinter maintenance costs more when it's performed, but it's performed less frequently. The increase of fuel mileage is significant, even with the higher cost of diesel. And, I fully expect to be able to put more miles on this engine than on a Ford Gasoline engine"

I guess that depends on how the total price of the van is figured into the operating cost. I don't have a clue about how you figure yours and it really doesn't matter if it is working for you. My only purpose in starting this thread was to give everybody a view of how my van was doing and a peck at how I made the decisions I did when deciding what van to buy. I continue with that purpose in mind. And keeping with that theme when I use the word "you" in the following paragraphs, turtle, I'm not referring to you specifically but referring to whoever is reading this thread.
About fifty years ago when I started to finance my first piece of equipment to start a business a very wise man told me," any piece of equipment that depreciates, that won't pay for itself in three years, you don't need." I have followed that advice on several businesses and many pieces of equipment through the years and it has worked very well. So lets look at deciding whether to buy a Ford/Chevy gas extended van or a Sprinter. And I did the same calculations between a Ford/ Chevy gas and diesel. I will use the approximate figures I got in late 2003 when I was making that decision. I will use a 10% finance rate and Bankrate.com's calculator on what the payments would be. Now you usually can get a better interest rate for a 36-month loan, than you can for a 60-month loan, but we will ignore that here. We will use a $2000.00 down payment for both vans and also assume you have $2000.00 dollars to equip the vans with bed, cooler, etc that you need before you hit the road.
Ok, for the Ford/ Chevy, cost on it was approximately 24,000.00. Financing $22,000.00 for 36 months gives a payment of $709.88 per month. On the Sprinter at approximately $37,000.00 financing $35,000 for 36 months, gives a payment of $1129.35 per month. Now if you put that payment into your operating expense (And I don't see any other way to do it) the operating expense for the Sprinter is $419.47 per month higher than for the gas burner. So the diesel has to save that much in fuel per month to keep the two vans on equal ground. Then when you figure the routine maintenance, oil changes, fuel supplements, trans. services, repairs etc, into the equation you have a true picture of where you stand. I haven't done any figuring on this in the last few weeks but the way fuel prices have changed in the last few weeks I would say that right now any diesel would save you $419.00 a month in fuel cost if you are running decent mileage each month. But my figures from the last three years does not show that and I don't have a clue what fuel prices are going to do going forward.
Now to show how a different finance period can affect operating cost lets look at financing for 60 months. Using the figures above, 36 payments at $709.88 equals $25,555.68. Using 36 payments at $1129.35 gives you $40.656.60. But lets look at financing for 60 months at the same interest rate. Financing $22,000.00 would give payments of 467.43 but would total $28,045.80. $2,490.12 went to bank profit, instead of your bank account. Financing $35,000.00 for 60 months gives a payment of $743.65 and a total of payments of $44,619.00. Now the Sprinter only has to save $276.22 per month to make the Sprinter and Ford/Chevy equal but it has to do that for 5 years to break even. And over 5 years the Sprinter routine maintenance expense gap widens over the Ford/Chevy. Another danger of financing for 60 months is if you are running decent miles either van is probably going to need some fairly high cost repairs and you will be paying for them and still making truck payments. That can make things tough. Hey,nobody ever said this was simple or easy.

"But, quite honestly, even if the Sprinter cost more to operate annually than the Ford, I'd be fine with that. I'm comfortable and happy in my Sprinter, which is important to me since I come out here for 2-3 months at a time, sometimes more. It's a freight-capable RV and it serves me well."

Here again we are in agreement. Being comfortable and happy with the vehicle you spend so much time in is very important. That was the most important consideration when I started shopping for a new van. My wife and I are both tall and have had a queen size bed since we got married almost 40 yrs ago. Every now and then we sleep in a regular length bed when visiting someone and find it uncomfortable. So on our first van we bought a 42" by 80" inch temperfoam mattress. Now there’s not a van out there that I've seen that will accommodate that crosswise. So on our regular van, (there’s a post about it in the archives but I don’t have the link. Maybe Dreamer does.) I mounted it lengthwise about 15" off the floor with hinges so it folded up against the side of the van. But when the load was over 15" tall the bed couldn't be used. And since the bed folded up against one side I couldn't put any shelves on that side. So the first condition I wanted out of a new van was a bed that could be used with most loads that we haul. Second consideration was we wanted to be able to stand up straight in the van. We wanted room for a portapottie. And we wanted more shelf/storage space.
So the Sprinter and the Aerocell caught my eye because of the height. Also considered having a raised top on a regular van. Now as everybody knows, this expediting job gives you a lot of time to think. Maybe too much lol. So I had worked out in my mind the bed system I now have. First off, I liked the aerodynamic design of the Aerocell and liked the extra width inside. But I didn't like the "hatchback" door on the regular Aerocell at all. When raised it extended back behind the bumper. And the springs/counterbalance system took up a lot of room on both sides of the interior. That would keep me from using my bed design. The Sprinter is narrower than the Aerocell at the bottom and then slopes in more toward the top. I could have designed the bed support frame so that the support beams sloped like the van wall and as the bed raised it would move over toward the other side of the van. But then when it was raised you couldn't have gotten between the bed and the wall. Same with the regular van with a raised top. I called Unicell and inquired about barn doors for the Aerocell. They had two prototypes built at the factory in Toronto. We went by and looked at them and the rest is history. In the Aerocell, when the bed is down to normal bed height I have 8" of shelf, 44" of bed (I put padding around the bed board edges), 15" of isle space and 14.5" of shelf space. That’s with the 2" of sprayed in foam insulation and inner fiberglass liner. When the bed is in the raised position I have 4.5" of shelf space, 44" of bed, 15" isle space and 10" of shelf. Now these measurements are over the wheel wells, which is the widest point. From there it tapers slightly toward the rear and a bit more toward the front. It still gives a lot of shelf space and we use it all lol. And since the roof is rounded, even with the bed up to clear 48" of freight we can sleep up there. Now when the freight is over 52" tall I can sleep up there but the wife won't. I admit it is pretty tight lol. I will take stuff up to 56" if it pays well but that seldom happens. In fact I'm tempted to have Panther put 48" as max height because I haven't made enough extra in three years to even talk about. Usually we don't find out it is over height until we get to the shipper and then we hear the deal has already been done and you accepted the load yada yada. I don't like the hassle so if it's a good run, I will haul it or if it's not a real good run, I just tell the shipper it won't fit, collect a dry run, and wait for another load.
The main thing is, you are happy with your Sprinter, and we are happy with our Aerocell, and everybody out there has heard from both of us and have some more info with which to make a decision on what will work best for them and that is all I am after.
One funny aspect of building this van was when I first posted about what I might do some folks expressed concern that since it was fiberglass that it would be too light. Actually, and this addresses a post by packmule, it came out a little heavy. After I had it all ready to go Panther had me weigh it on a certified scale. It came in at 7600 lbs. so my payload is noted at 2400 lbs. Sometimes when I come out of Canada at Detroit those scales have me around 8000 lbs. empty. Don't know how accurate those are but I would like to have it lighter. So to answer the question, would I do anything different, yes I would. I would research the cost of making all steel parts of the bed system aluminum and also probably use 1/4" plywood for the shelves instead of 1/2". Don't know many other places to shave weight.



Danny (packmule)
As stated above I got my van a little heavy, but have been about as busy as we want to be with the 2400-LB limit. We are in service from 200 to 220 days a year. Loaded miles are in the mid 90’s per year. I would lighten it up some if I could without loosing any comfort or convenience.
On handling characteristics you can feel a strong wind like any van and if I get up close behind a tractor-trailer I feel that buffeting like a regular van. Had no top-heavy sensation even before installing the air bags and height control valves. Air bags helped the overall ride and keeps other drivers from flashing their headlights because they think your lights are on bright, but it’s just because you are loaded and the tail is sagging.
Have had no issues with the body except I had them use LED lights and they had to put a resister in the turn signal circuit to load the flasher enough that it would work. First one of those shorted out but have had no other problems. The fiberglass is tough. Hauled an engine to the railroad and all they had out on the job was a truck crane to unload with. He was extending his boom into the van and was about 3 inches too high and caught the back of the van. Moved the van before he stopped but just put a little scuffmark on the fiberglass. And a Landstar driver showed me where a deer hit him at the left rear wheel with him going 65 MPH. Destroyed the wheel cover and folded the bumper back but only put a 1 ½†crack in the fiberglass in the flange around the wheelwell so it is tough stuff. I’m not real pleased with the color match between the cab and the fiberglass body. Cab has clearcoat but body doesn’t. Even waxed the difference is obvious.


Dreamer,
Appreciate the kind words and sorry I’ve been so scarce. I’ve had several other projects going and just haven’t had time to get on here much. Have a couple more things I want to post on here if I can find time.

Dieseldoctor

 

[Turtle]

Not to worry, I never get offended by anything online, and I didn't take this personally at all.
"...and everybody out there has heard from both of us and have some more info with which to make a decision on what will work best for them and that is all I am after."

Me too (c) AOL (someone will get that)

I'm not against the Ford with an Aerocell at all. Far from it. I've been watching with keen interest your evolution with yours since you first posted about it. I have appreciated the pics, and have gotten a lot of good ideas from them.

I was actually going to order a new Sprinter with all the bells and whistles that I wanted, then outfit it for expediting and livability. But, it was going to take, like, 8 months for it to come in. But, around the corner from me there was this Sprinter sitting in a driveway that, apparently, never moved. I checked, and he had bought it a year earlier to haul barrels up from Texas to Kentucky. He made that trip down and back twice, it all fell through, then he drained the oil and fuel tanks and parked it. For a year. It had all of 4100 miles on it. Just sitting there. All he wanted for it was what he still owed on it at the bank, $28,000 and change. Deal! lol

The thing still had the new car smell, still had the plastic on the steering wheel. It was a new van. And for that kind of a discount, I could live without a few bells and whistles. I'll add a bell and a whistle there when I want.

I hate a car/van/truck payment. Hate it, hate it, hate it. My previous van was paid for with $5,000 cash. It allowed me to save a considerable sum to put down on the Sprinter. It's on a three-year note, but I usually make double payments, and always more than the payment amount. It'll be paid off rater soon. Once it's paid off it will start making me some decent money. I could pay it off even sooner, but I've earmarked some money (about $1200) for a heavy duty sway bar and some premium Koni shocks and struts. Of all the published problems regarding the Sprinter, IMHO the cheap sway bar and OEM shocks are the biggest of the lot. On a windy day with heavy gusts, or a rapidly passing big truck, the steering wheel will flat get jerked out of your hands if you aren't focused. I had the opportunity last week to drive a Sprinter with the suspension upgrades, and I must say the difference is nothing short of astounding. That owner had upgraded the sway bar and said it made a huge difference, but it was nothing compared to the addition of the Koni products when he added those a few months later. It's nearly $1100 plus installation labor to replace the sway bar, shocks and struts. That's an awful lot of money to spend on something that ain't broke. But, unfortunately, it's necessary for a safe, stable ride.

I've also earmarked some money for a bunch of high end AGM's and a DC air conditioner, or a generator now that Idlebusters has a viable Sprinter application. I still need to get some more information on their generator before I decide. If I had a Ford van, I'd have an Onan mounted under the body, as that works out rather well. One of the purposes, for me, of not idling is to not burn fuel, so I have to find out just how much fuel the Idlebuster generator will burn under a full load. If it's any more than about a third of a gallon an hour, that's too much as far as I'm concerned (that's what an idling Sprinter burns, actually).

If you go with AGM's, especially high dollar ones like Concord Lifeline or SunXtenders, you'll want to do two things. One, make sure you have enough batteries to never draw them down below 50%, which is about the 12.2 volt level. Go below that and sulfation begins. Actually, Sulfation begins at 25% DoD (12.4 volt) and mild battery damage begins below 12.2 volt. So if you get to the 11.2 volt point, the batteries will be damaged and will be farther and farther away from a "full" charge when fully charged (as you've noticed). Ands the farther down below 12.2 volts you go, the more important it is to fully recharge the batteries when you do add juice back into them. Otherwise, as with running the engine for 15 minutes at a time, you dramatically increase the sulfation by chronically undercharging them.

This isn't much of a concern when you're dealing with cheap yellow top marine batteries from Wal Mart of something. But, if you're using high dollar Concords (or very high dollar Discover, 6 volts, 390 amp hours, $350 a pop) then it becomes an important issue. Two grand worth of batteries is not something to run down to the 11.2 volt point. Which brings me to the second consideration when using AGM's, and that is to strongly consider getting a battery monitor, like the Xantrex Battery Monitor. It'll keep track of every amp in and out, and will scream at you when you're at 50% DoD (Depth of Discharge).

I want to be able to sit for 24 hours without having to turn the key to recharge batteries. To prevent from running them down to more than 50%, that means that whatever I use in 24 hours, I need twice that many amp hours worth of batteries. I'm actually figuring 36-48 hours, because of having to sit weekends so often, and knowing that additional electrical draws will be added as time goes by, as well as taking into account that all batteries will lose capacity as they are cycled.

In addition to laptop, low wattage lighting and the MicroFridge, I'll be running a DC air conditioner that will pull from 20-40 amps. That's a lot of amp hours in a day. Ideally, and it maybe what I go with, I should get eight of the Discover L-16 batteries (floor scrubber AGM's), which will give me 1560 amp hours. That's a lot. It's also about 900 pounds of batteries. I can spare the weight, but just barely. I may go with six of them, I dunno yet. Or I could go with jut a couple of them and use the Idlebuster generator. Have to gather more info on it first.

I've done more research on this than I care to admit. But I'll say again that if I had something other than a Sprinter I'd have an Onan mounted under the van and hooked into the fuel line. A generator just into practical on a Sprinter used for expediting. Whether it's mounted underneath or on the roof, maintenance is going to be a nightmare. However, if Idlebuster has the maintenance problem licked for their roof mounted generator, it's definitely worth a consideration. It's pricey, though.

My other vans were short wheelbase vans, so when I had two skids I had no room to think, much less sleep. I wanted a permanent bunk, period. I'm 5'9" so a crosswise bed works (30x66, 6-inch foam with a 3-inch memory foam topper). If I were a couple of inches taller I don't think it would, though. The bunk is built like a storage chest, where the top raises up on a hinge for storage underneath. That's where the batteries are, and where the high end batteries will go. Between the bunk and the back of the driver's seat is my MicroFridge (fridge, freezer, microwave, and a printer/scanner mounted on top like a cherry on a sundae (or a Cheri on a Sunday)). The passenger seat has been replaced with a desk of sorts that I made from wood, shelves, a place for the computer, CB, QC and other assorted junk. The rest of the living space is padded and carpeted, gives me about 5 feet of living space.

There is no bulkhead. After living in a short wheelbase E-350 for so long, I wanted it to be like Montana in here. The rear has nine feet for cargo. 50 inches wide by 108 inches long, up to 59 inches high.

I don't have shelves up yet. I wish I had your shelf space. I keep looking at yours and trying to figure out how to adapt some of the things you did for in here. The Sprinter as you know tapers up, so the higher you go the less room you have. At the bottom, I have about 8 inches of shelf space, about 10" at the wheel wells, I think. I'll lose half the bunk storage when I fill it with batteries, so something has to be figured out with shelving. And soon, cause it's gettin' hot and I want my AC.

I can actually sleep when it's too hot. I know most people can't. In fact, when it's really hot during the day, as is when we so often have to sleep in expediting, rather than sit and sweat, I can go to sleep (and sweat) and not be bothered by it. I can't sleep a wink if I'm cold, however.

Mine is, I guess like many vans, a work in progress. I'll get it done pretty soon, though.

As for which van to get, new, primarily taking dollars into account, if it were between a Sprinter and something else, I'd probably go with the E-350 Aerocell, simply because it has the height of a Sprinter (taller freight, and I wanna stand up to get dressed) and the stability and handling of the E-350. Using those as the criteria, even adding in the maintenance and repair costs, the Aerocell would be cheaper, simply because of the lower initial price. But, the fuel economy of the Sprinter can't easily be dismissed, even though it alone won't make up for the cost difference.

All things being equal, I'm a miles-per-gallon kinda guy. If I weren't on the road and I were at home every day, I'd probably be driving a Prius, even though the fuel economy of the Prius won't offset the higher cost of the hybrid. I'm not so much an environmentalist as I am a miles-per-gallon kinda guy. My favorite vehicle was my 1978 Chevy Monza (like a Pontiac Sunbird) because it was a 5-speed stick 4-cylinder powerhouse (hehe) that got 34 miles to the gallon, and I lived a mile from work. Didn't have a need to do much driving of any distance very often. I'd full up that tank about once a quarter. lol

There are other things that make the Sprinter more attractive, for me at least, than simple dollars. If it were all about dollars, I'd be buying another used van on the cheap for cash. I got this one relatively cheap as it is, but I'd have bought new, like I said with all the bells and whistles, if it weren't going to take so long to get it. Of course, now that the 2007 Sprinters are out, I see all kinds of bells and whistles that are offered on it that weren't even an option on earlier models. Oh, well. Next time, maybe.