pelicn
Veteran Expediter
I'd heard that. Normally, we don't get the red light that often, that's why it has surprised us. The scale that we were inspected at, didn't have pre-pass.
DoT Inspections
- Thread starter pdew17
- Start date
I'd heard that. Normally, we don't get the red light that often, that's why it has surprised us. The scale that we were inspected at, didn't have pre-pass.
DougTravels
Not a Member
I believe that you are only required to log a pre trip, I have had my logs checked many times and usually go right from driving to sleeper with no 15 on duty unless I make delivery on that drive. I always log and write a 15 min pre though.
If they ever called on you to do a pre-trip, could you complete it in 15
minutes?remeber, you would have to do all the light checks and under hood inspection as well air brake test along with frame, exhaust, tire depth, brake inspections..... yaddayaddayadda.
we show 30 minutes for both pre and post inspections.
moose
Veteran Expediter
we show 30 minutes for both pre and post inspections.
Just one more benefits of running team ,
have to agree with you on this one , i actually wanted to say that i show 30. 'when i can'. but decided not to bring it up .
sometime as a solo , you are bounded by the 70, giving away 10% of your driving time some time is not an option. its all a mouse and cat game.or did i got it wrong?
Moose.
Doing the pre-trip, working as a team, certainly makes a pre-trip do-able in 15 minutes.
Just make sure that one of you isn't shown
being in the sleeper.
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Interesting point. Leads me to wonder what the rule actually is. Does anyone have any more to offere regarding the actual reg?
O.K. , I'm going to address several points here . Some inspectors have been known to copy log sheets and fax them to other scales .
FMCSA requires you to log or flag all changes of duty status but you are only required to enter the city and state of ther change . Some carriers may require you to enter more info but that is not an FMCSA requirement . FMCSA gives logbook examples that show only city and state at duty status changes . There is controversy over whether using a CMV off duty during a restart and not doing a pretrip would be a violation .
You can go to a carrier's file at Safestate and see their ISS-D recommendation . Depending on their safety rating they will have a Pass , Optional , or Inspect rating . Scales will still pick trucks at random regardless of rating . Several times in KY I have been empty and directed to the scale while full trucks in front of me got the bypass . When I pulled on the scale I was waved on .
FMCSA requires you to log or flag all changes of duty status but you are only required to enter the city and state of ther change . Some carriers may require you to enter more info but that is not an FMCSA requirement . FMCSA gives logbook examples that show only city and state at duty status changes . There is controversy over whether using a CMV off duty during a restart and not doing a pretrip would be a violation .
You can go to a carrier's file at Safestate and see their ISS-D recommendation . Depending on their safety rating they will have a Pass , Optional , or Inspect rating . Scales will still pick trucks at random regardless of rating . Several times in KY I have been empty and directed to the scale while full trucks in front of me got the bypass . When I pulled on the scale I was waved on .
SHARP327
Veteran Expediter
So the sticker at this time was yellow?
I was called in a couple of times even with pre-pass but didn't look as though they were
checking a lot of trucks if any and then got waved on.
I've had to get my DOT inspection near the house at times and the only place was the coops...any way some time ago they gave my truck a yellow sticker and I've been lazy
and not removed it and now I'm wondering if they thought my sticker was the current one?
If so! then maybe it's good to be lazy at times?
I was called in a couple of times even with pre-pass but didn't look as though they were
checking a lot of trucks if any and then got waved on.
I've had to get my DOT inspection near the house at times and the only place was the coops...any way some time ago they gave my truck a yellow sticker and I've been lazy
and not removed it and now I'm wondering if they thought my sticker was the current one?
If so! then maybe it's good to be lazy at times?
You never remove the sticker. Depending on what corner is missing shows what quarter the inspection was done. If you have a sticker they will see that you have at least had an inspection done at some time in the past so they may pass you over for someone who doesn't have a sticker.
When it comes to logging a pre trip there are no regs regarding the logging of the time, but I will say again you DON'T have to log time (you must flag it) BUT you better be able to do a "by the check list" for a vehicle inspection in less than 7.5 mins or log sometime for doing the inspection.
When it comes to logging a pre trip there are no regs regarding the logging of the time, but I will say again you DON'T have to log time (you must flag it) BUT you better be able to do a "by the check list" for a vehicle inspection in less than 7.5 mins or log sometime for doing the inspection.
Here are a couple of quotes from the FMCSA web site:
G-2. If a team driver goes directly from 10 consecutive hours off-duty to the sleeper berth at the start of his duty period, can the sleeper-berth period be excluded from calculation of the 14-hour limit?
Yes. It would be a "...combination of consecutive sleeper-berth and off-duty time amounting to at least 10 hours" per § 395.1(g)(1). The driver would not be permitted to perform any duties, such as pre-trip inspections, prior to using the sleeper berth.
We should all know this one:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans serif]Regulations[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans serif]§ 392.7 Equipment, inspection and use.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans serif]No commercial motor vehicle shall be driven unless the driver is satisfied that the following parts and accessories are in good working order, nor shall any driver fail to use or make use of such parts and accessories when and as needed:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans serif]Service brakes, including trailer brake connections.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans serif]Parking (hand) brake.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans serif]Steering mechanism.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans serif]Lighting devices and reflectors.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans serif]Tires.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans serif]Horn.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans serif]Windshield wiper or wipers.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans serif]Rear-vision mirror or mirrors.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans serif]Coupling devices.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans serif][33 FR 19732, Dec. 25, 1968, as amended at 60 FR 38746, July 28, 1995][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans serif](a)(2) Every driver who operates a commercial motor vehicle shall record his/her duty status by using an automatic on-board recording device that meets the requirements of §395.15 of this part. The requirements of §395.8 shall not apply, except paragraphs (e) and (k)(1) and (2) of this section.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans serif]This quote states the only logable conditions available to a driver, While the pre trip is not mentioned as a logable event in so many words, it would fall under the below "change of status" regs.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans serif]The first quote above states a pre trip cannot be done while in the "sleeper". It for sure cant be done "off duty," or while "driving". The only other option is "on duty not driving" as indicated below[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans serif](b) The duty status shall be recorded as follows:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans serif](b)(1) “Off duty” or “OFF.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans serif](b)(2) “Sleeper berth” or “SB” (only if a sleeper berth used).[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans serif](b)(3) “Driving” or “D.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans serif](b)(4) “On-duty not driving” or “ON.”396.13 Driver inspection. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans serif]The pre trip would start the 14 hour clock as a "change of status " duty.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans serif]Before driving a motor vehicle, the driver shall:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans serif](a) Be satisfied that the motor vehicle is in safe operating condition;[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans serif](b) Review the last driver vehicle inspection report; and[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans serif](c) Sign the report, only if defects or deficiencies were noted by the driver who prepared the report, to acknowledge that the driver has reviewed it and that there is a certification that the required repairs have been performed. The signature requirement does not apply to listed defects on a towed unit which is no longer part of the vehicle combination.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans serif](c) For each change of duty status (e.g., the place of reporting for work, starting to drive, on-duty not driving and where released from work), the name of the city, town or village, with State abbreviation, shall be recorded.[/FONT]
moose
Veteran Expediter
"
The pre trip would start the 14 hour clock as a "change of status " duty. "
Where Did you got this one from ?
this is a first to me .
if (!) i understand it correct ,
you can work as match as you like , as long as you took a 10 hours break before driving.
and your 14 starts when you start driving.
your quot may only start the clock if you do your inspection just before driving.
The regulations require the driver to complete the inspection every day he drove the truck , and before the end of the day.
one inspection per calendar day.
(lets C if i got it right.)
Moose.
Seattle...
The pre trip would start the 14 hour clock as a "change of status " duty. "
Where Did you got this one from ?
this is a first to me .
if (!) i understand it correct ,
you can work as match as you like , as long as you took a 10 hours break before driving.
and your 14 starts when you start driving.
your quot may only start the clock if you do your inspection just before driving.
The regulations require the driver to complete the inspection every day he drove the truck , and before the end of the day.
one inspection per calendar day.
(lets C if i got it right.)
Moose.
Seattle...
greg334
Veteran Expediter
OK because Phil has me on his ignore list, I don't care to answer for his benefit but for others I will. Seeing he is an editor and has a legal staff who looks into speed limiters laws, maybe he could have asked a better question...
But here goes for all of those inquiring minds...
I call my friend over at the MSP CE and she gave me the skinny on what they feel is the proper information. It differs from state to state just a little and every office has his/her way of looking at things. Her main concern is safety, nothing else.
The pre-trip and in fact a post-trip is required. I won't get into Hazmat, because that is clearly spelled out and you don't need to look hard to find it.
Let's start with the log, because your log has to show you on duty not driving when ever you do an inspection, repair or even be around when repairs and inspection take place, a pre-trip is interpreted as part of that definition of an inspection and must be logged. With all things, it has to be clearly marked "inspection" or "pre-trip".
§395.8 Driver’s record of duty status.
(b) The duty status shall be recorded as follows:
(b)(1) “Off duty” or “OFF.”
(b)(2) “Sleeper berth” or “SB” (only if a sleeper berth used).
(b)(3) “Driving” or “D.”
(b)(4) “On-duty not driving” or “ON.”
Legal Definition;
On duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. On-duty time shall include:
.....
(2) All time inspecting, servicing, or conditioning any commercial motor vehicle at any time;
They cited in the fed regulations on the maintenance of the vehicle and the need for a daily inspection;
§396.13 Driver inspection. Before driving a motor vehicle, the driver shall:
(a) Be satisfied that the motor vehicle is in safe operating condition;
(b) Review the last driver vehicle inspection report; and
(c) Sign the report, only if defects or deficiencies were noted by the driver who prepared the report, to acknowledge that the driver has reviewed it and that there is a certification that the required repairs have been performed. The signature requirement does not apply to listed defects on a towed unit which is no longer part of the vehicle combination.
AND This is where it gets the carrier involved with their log audits;
§396.3 Inspection, repair and maintenance (a) General—Every motor carrier shall systematically inspect, repair, and maintain, or cause to be systematically inspected, repaired, and maintained, all motor vehicles subject to its control.
(a)(1) Parts and accessories shall be in safe and proper operating condition at all times. These include those specified in Part 393 of this subchapter and any additional parts and accessories which may affect safety of operation, including but not limited to, frame and frame assemblies, suspension systems, axles and attaching parts, wheels and rims, and steering systems.
They are clear that the pre-trip/post-trip is a requirement to fulfill this regulation as systematically and for all times.
In addition there is another regulation;
§398.4 Driving of motor vehicles. (a) Compliance required. Every motor carrier shall comply with the requirements of this part, shall instruct its officers, agents, representatives and drivers with respect thereto, and shall take such measures as are necessary to insure compliance therewith by such persons. All officers, agents, representatives, drivers, and employees of motor carriers directly concerned with the management, maintenance, operation, or driving of motor vehicles, shall comply with and be conversant with the requirements of this part.
......
(f) Equipment and emergency devices. No motor vehicle shall be driven unless the driver thereof shall have satisfied himself that the following parts, accessories, and emergency devices are in good working order; nor shall any driver fail to use or make use of such parts, accessories, and devices when and as needed:
Service brakes, including trailer brake connections.
Parking (hand) brake.
Steering mechanism.
Lighting devices and reflectors.
Tires.
Horn.
Windshield wiper or wipers.
Rear-vision mirror or mirrors.
Coupling devices.
Fire extinguisher, at least one properly mounted.
Road warning devices, at least one red burning fusee and at least three flares (oil burning pot torches), red electric lanterns, or red emergency reflectors.
That regulation is used to enforce the first above it.
So even if the DOT may not say you have to do a "pre-trip", you better make sure to be able to show you did do an inspection if you get a Equipment Violation.
Moose, the 14 hours start at any change of duty status .. always has.
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How soon they foreget.
You are required by law to perform a pretrip prior to driving the vehicle.
Go back to your CDL instruction manual, check with your local DMV, dont tell them you are a CDL operator though they might cite you for not knowing this.