"Don't ask, Don't smell."

[aristotle]

Obama's obsession with pushing the radical agenda lingers on. Let's defeat these these liberals in November before more damage is done to our military and national security.

The odds of Obama being a one term president increase every day.

 

[jaminjim]

Personal opinion here, no one that is openly a homosexual should be allowed in the military. Most people who have served in the military share this opinion. It really has nothing to do with their ability to do there job individually, but the military does not operate as individuals, they are a team.

 

[hossman54]

and gays can't belong to a team? Really... I think that anyone who is willing to support this country should be allowed to.. Homophobic mentalities have no place in our society..

 

[jaminjim]

and gays can't belong to a team?

Never said they can't belong to a team. Just not a military team.

Really... I think that anyone who is willing to support this country should be allowed to..

I totally agree, just not in the military.

Homophobic mentalities have no place in our society..

Can't argue with you on that. Remember that just because someone disagrees with a persons lifestyle, doesn't necessarily mean that they have an extreme and irrational aversion to homosexuality and homosexual people.

Placing labels on people that you don't know is rather silly is it not?

 

[witness23]

Placing labels on people that you don't know is rather silly is it not?

Oh the irony.

 

[jaminjim]

Oh the irony.

Would you care to share? Not sure where/what the irony is? Since you quoted me are you referring to something I posted? I must have missed where I placed a label on anyone, help me out.

 

[hossman54]

exactly, irony... What is the difference what type of team. I am certain that gay people can shoot, obey orders, march, just as good as straight people and I would bet even better than some straight people. Would you be afraid that you or others might be tempted to change teams if in the shower with a gay person? You can disagree with the lifestyle as I do without being threatened by the lifestyle.

 

[jaminjim]

Well first let me "see" if we are on a level playing field. It appears that hoss and wit, find my 'attitude' towards homosexuals in the military to be wrong minded. In order for me to properly respond to the both of you I will need a a small bit of information.
1. Have you served in the Military?
2. If so what was the time frame?
3. What type of living arrangement were you in, meaning lived on post, off post, if on post what type/style barracks were you housed in.
4. Did you serve with any openly homosexuals while you were in, and where did they live?

 

[witness23]

You are contridicting yourself by saying they can be part of a team just not a military team, a team is a team be it military, football, baseball, etc, etc, if you are good at what you do why should your lifestyle matter? I was in the military and I didn't agree with plenty of lifestyles but it did not matter as long as that person did what was expected of them.

 

[hossman54]

what do any of those questions have to do with the fact you are not comfortable sharing showers and living space with gays? I have worked in jobs where there were communal showers at the end of the day... I am sure some of them were gay... What are your fears based in? I have been hit on by gays before and just turned down the offer with and explanation. This is clearly an issue you personally have whether insecurity or experience...

 

[witness23]

I will answer your questions in a moment but first let me say this, as a Christian I do not agree with the homosexual lifestyle but I take the stance of don't hate the sinner, hate the sin.

This is just my opinion but I think when people talk about this issue of gays in the military they have this visual of the flamboyant, boa wearing, make-up wearing, Village People running around the barracks, berthing or mess hall flaunting their gayness. If a person is gay and in the military they are not going to come out and make it public, not that it hasn't happened but I'm sure 99% of them just want to serve their country and not just there to pick up guys or woman. I could be wrong but I do not think I'm to far from the mark. Don't be surprised if you sat in a fox hole, gun turret, stood watch with a person of that affiliation.

 

[jaminjim]

You are contridicting yourself by saying they can be part of a team just not a military team,

I don't believe that I contradicted myself at all. I didn't say they could be a member of any team I said they can't be a member of a military team.

a team is a team be it military, football, baseball, etc, etc,

Yes thats true. But it is different in the military, in most every other 'team' you don't sleep in the same room nor do you shower with most other teammates (unless you are talking athletic teams).

if you are good at what you do why should your lifestyle matter?

If you are only talking about killing people, planning the killing of other people, or supporting those that kill people, that would be fine. The problem is when your not doing those functions you are hanging out in the barracks and all that, that entails and that is one of the problems. There are potentially other problems that can and do happen that are as large a problem, but can have deadlier results.

I was in the military

Great then you can imagine what those other problems can be, right?

and I didn't agree with plenty of lifestyles

Same here.

but it did not matter as long as that person did what was expected of them.

Me either not a problem at all, because you would not be openly homosexual.

 

[jaminjim]

This is clearly an issue you personally have whether insecurity or experience...

Well that is the same defense the Homosexual community uses to try and push their agenda on the rest of the population. Try to call people "names" or put them on the defensive. Rather than discuss the issue you are trying to deflect the conversation.

Once again you are trying to label someone you have not met, talked with, or had any meaningful communication with. Yet you attempt to label me.

 

[jaminjim]

what do any of those questions have to do with the fact you are not comfortable sharing showers and living space with gays?

I'll take that as a no to the question of your military experience. Just another example of someone who obviously knows nothing about the life of a military man making judgements on how someone else should do a job they know nothing about.

 

[davekc]

Regardless of someones position, I think with all the problems in Washington, this should be way down the list of priorities for Obama. During is SOTU address, he lost all credibility with me for bringing this up rather than thanking the troops that are currently there involved Iraq & Afghanistan.
Absolutely pathetic.

 

[jaminjim]

Yep, Just another thing for him to say for his backers. Way more important than 1 in 10 people out of work, or soldiers in harms way in three countries.

 

[hossman54]

That was going to be my main point is that like most libs they chose to make hay on issues that are not important at the moment just so they can say they are accomplishing something... But saying someone is insecure is not name calling it is an observation based on your own coments. Based on someones words I feel I am capable of forming a simple opinion of that person but obviously not an indepth one. Again it does not matter whether I served in the military.. someone being OPENLY gay or not has no bearing on whether they would serve this country as good as any straight person... Your opinion is based in your religious beliefs which is your choice, mine is based in my own feelings based on information I have assimilated whether religious or not. It does boil down to would I feel as protected and honored by someone that is openly gay? Absolutely as long as they were there for righteous reasons and doing the job correctly. I am proud of anyone who chooses to put their lives on the line for Me, My country and My family and beliefs....

 

[witness23]

Well first let me "see" if we are on a level playing field. It appears that hoss and wit, find my 'attitude' towards homosexuals in the military to be wrong minded. In order for me to properly respond to the both of you I will need a a small bit of information.
1. Have you served in the Military?
2. If so what was the time frame?
3. What type of living arrangement were you in, meaning lived on post, off post, if on post what type/style barracks were you housed in.
4. Did you serve with any openly homosexuals while you were in, and where did they live?

1. Yes, Navy. Spent 4 years on the U.S.S. Mt. Vernon LSD 39
2. '90 to '94 Desert Shield/Desert Storm
3. Stuffed in a berthing with 30 guys.
4. I don't know if any where gay or not but I'm sure there may have been and it would not have effected me either way. This is the thing, when you say openly gay I don't think you would know even if they were to change the policy. It's not like they are going to wear something or flaunt the fact that they are gay. You probably wouldn't know if they were gay or not, unless they felt comfortable enough to tell you. Again, I think people have this image of Rupaul or the Village People, a hardcore gay person serving in the military, those you would not find signing up for the military and if they did, good luck to 'em.

 

[LDB]

I have the "good fortune" to have the benefit of fascia fibroma along with no arches. My feet are so pathetic there's nothing I could qualify for in the service. I'm fortunate to know many heroes who did qualify and served.

It seems the focus here is misdirected. It seems the focus is labeling and homophobia when the point was the advisability of accepting service by those openly gay. I'm sure everyone knows there have been and still are gays serving in the military in a closeted fashion. I don't think anyone is suggesting that isn't likely to always be. I see the point as being an open and/or flamboyant gay should not be serving, at least in any deployment unit and perhaps at all.

 

[jaminjim]

That was going to be my main point is that like most libs they chose to make hay on issues that are not important at the moment just so they can say they are accomplishing something...

I guessing you should have stuck with your main point then.

But saying someone is insecure is not name calling

So I'll take being "called" insecure, fearful (What are your fears based in?) as compliments? . You have also asked if I might be afraid of wanting to switch teams, or if I have experience. While they are not names I don't think they were intended to do anything more than either shut me up or provoke me. But it accomplished neither.

it is an observation based on your own coments.

And which comments show fear, insecurity, or that I might either have experience, or afraid I might want an experience.

Based on someones words I feel I am capable of forming a simple opinion of that person

Well obviously not.

but obviously not an indepth one.

But you sure tried.

Again it does not matter whether I served in the military..

Well it actually does. But I'm glad to see that you agree with two of our finest <sic> Commanders and Chiefs Presidents Clinton and Obama. What do they have in common? Oh thats right I almost forgot, neither one served in the Armed Forces. Those two have at least been accused of disliking our people in the military.

someone being OPENLY gay or not has no bearing on whether they would serve this country as good as any straight person...

Never said otherwise.

Your opinion is based in your religious beliefs.

Now there is the problem trying to form a simple opinion when you don't read what they wrote, but instead try to put them into a category that fits your idea. For it to have been a religious thing, I would not have said "openly Homosexual". And I probably would have condemned their behavior. But I didn't.

mine is based in my own feelings based on information I have assimilated whether religious or not.

Mine are based on Observation and facts.

It does boil down to would I feel as protected and honored by someone that is openly gay?

And that is your right.

It appears that you have no practical experience in the Armed Forces (correct me if I'm wrong) so for you to want to decide what policies are, in something that you have no knowledge of is silly. So long as they behave themselves and don't infringe on another persons rights they can do whatever floats their boat. (outside of the Military)