Do You Know The Silly Reason Why America Put A Man On The Moon?

asjssl · Jul 25, 2014

Do You Know The Silly Reason Why America Put A Man On The Moon? Do You Know Why We Stopped Going?

Do You Know The Silly Reason Why America Put A Man On The Moon? Do You Know Why We Stopped Going?

layoutshooter · Jul 26, 2014

OH shock OH shock.

Yes, the space race was part of the Cold War. What a shock. The ONLY thing surprising is that people who lived through that don't know it. I don't expect many who are younger to know, history is not really taught in our schools and learning on your own requires effort.

As to the space race being the reason we had economic growth, I believe that the massive tax CUTS put into place during Kennedy's administration had a lot to do with that, more that the space race did.

We, as a nation and a species, will get on with the exploration of space when governments get out of it.

Turtle · Jul 26, 2014

Neil deGrasse Tyson's words are very powerful and should be heeded closely.

Part II is rather sobering.

layoutshooter · Jul 26, 2014

What was in that video that was not common knowledge to anyone who studied history?

Even more so if those who are old enough to have lived through that era?

Turtle · Jul 26, 2014

layoutshooter said:
What was in that video that was not common knowledge to anyone who studied history? Even more so if those who are old enough to have lived through that era?

That we have foolishly and stupidly stopped investing in the space program.

layoutshooter · Jul 26, 2014

Turtle said:
That we have foolishly and stupidly stopped investing in the space program.

That depends on WHO is doing the investing. I believe that it is TOTALLY foolish for government to be investing in space exploration. I believe that is the business of private industry. I also believe that the fact that government, any government, was involved in it, and is involved in it, has retarded our advancement in that field.

Government has always been, is now, and will always be, the greatest impediment to Mankind's advancement.

Turtle · Jul 26, 2014

layoutshooter said:
That depends on WHO is doing the investing. I believe that it is TOTALLY foolish for government to be investing in space exploration. I believe that is the business of private industry. I also believe that the fact that government, any government, was involved in it, and is involved in it, has retarded our advancement in that field.

Government has always been, is now, and will always be, the greatest impediment to Mankind's advancement.

That's a rather ignorant knee-jerk reaction. The reality is, the greatest advancements of mankind have largely been paid for by governments.

Great Wall of China, The Manhattan Project, the Eisenhower Interstate System, the Apollo Program, are all examples of great (and expensive) achievements that were funded by government, largely incentivized by fear (defense). The Columbus and Magellan voyages, even the TVA, were big (and expensive) government funded projects with a promise of financial return. The Pyramids, the Vatican, Versailles, the Taj Mahal were all great (and expensive) projects funded by governments in praise of power. Private enterprise cannot take on these kinds of expenses without knowing the return. Governments can.

Private enterprise in the history of civilization has never led large, expensive, dangerous projects with unknown risks. That has never happened because when you combine all these factors you cannot create a capital market valuation of that activity. The first Europeans to the new world were not sailors on the commercial Dutch East India Trading Company ships. It was Columbus. It was Magellan. Voyages funded by governments. Somebody has to draw the maps. Somebody has to see where the danger spots are, where it’s safe, what the prevailing winds are. Once that is established, then private enterprise can come in and say, “Here’s the risk, I need an investor, here’s your payback, we can turn this into an enterprise.” Private enterprise cannot afford the risk of the very expensive and very unknown.

And before you bring up the Vikings, yes, it was funded by private enterprise, and yes, they did it first, but what they did was barely noteworthy, is barely an oh-by-the-way footnote, and didn't make a major impact on the achievements or advancements of man at all. If it weren't for the discoveries of archeologists, no one would even know the Vikings had been here.

Private enterprise is not going to lead us into space, to Mars, or anywhere else. Private enterprise can take on low earth orbit activities, though. Been there, done that. Back in the 60s low earth orbit was a frontier. We didn’t even know if a human could survive in low earth. Can you even swallow if you’re in orbit? Would saliva get caught in your throat? Simple questions like that were unknown and unanswered at the time. We’re well past that. We know how to get to low earth orbit. It’s done. The patents are offered (are given, granted) and so that would be the ideal place for private enterprise to take over.

But it's a government funded NASA that can breach new frontiers, and let private enterprise reap the economic benefits of the new technologies. There is simply no way to create a capital market valuation for a team of investors for going to Mars - because the technologies and the returns are simply unknown - it must be done by governments.

iceroadtrucker · Jul 26, 2014

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNiDoT7blX8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQhezienn-8

layoutshooter · Jul 28, 2014

NASA held back the space program and drove up the costs rather substantially. To a man, every I knew that was involved in the "space race" starting with Mercury, and ending with Apollo, had the same stories of back door deals, last minute changes in contracts, kick backs, politics, etc etc etc.

To a man they contend we COULD have done what we did, for half the money, and shaved about 1/3 of the time it took to put a man on the moon. They also said we would have been moving ahead had NASA not been involved.

Turtle · Jul 28, 2014

layoutshooter said:
NASA held back the space program and drove up the costs rather substantially. To a man, every I knew that was involved in the "space race" starting with Mercury, and ending with Apollo, had the same stories of back door deals, last minute changes in contracts, kick backs, politics, etc etc etc.

NASA is without question the most transparent agency the government has ever seen. Their books are open to the public, and always have been. The expenditures were then, and still are, exactly what gets reported to Congress, which eliminates the possibilities of last minute changes to contracts, kickbacks and politics. There is zero evidence for any of the claims you've just made. In fact, they're laugh-out-loud laughable. NASA has long been held up as the lone shining example of efficient and frugal spending. Project Mercury, the Original 7 astronaut program, spanned five years (1959–1963) and cost $277 million in 1965 dollars, which translate into $1.6 billion in today's dollars. By contrast the latest estimate on the USS Gerald R Ford is at $17.5 billion and will likely be well over $20 billion when it's delivered 2 years late in 2017. NASA's annual budget is less than that of the cost of the USS Gerald R Ford.

To a man they contend we COULD have done what we did, for half the money, and shaved about 1/3 of the time it took to put a man on the moon. They also said we would have been moving ahead had NASA not been involved.

Either you are mis-remembering badly, or they're giving you a load of crap. There was no one, other than the Russians, and certainly no private enterprise in the entire free world, much less the US, who was working on anything at all having to do with manned spaceflight, until NASA was invented to do so. The total cost of the entire Apollo Program, in today's dollars, was $109 billion. Not a single private enterprise, or group of businesses, could touch even one manned mission to the Moon for that amount, much less multiple missions. NASA invented, literally, the ways and means of getting a man to the moon and back. Until they did it, no one else had a clue as to how to do it. The Russians never did it, because they didn't know how, and they spent more than 8 times on their space program than we did. At the end, all the Russians could come up with as a space capsule and landing craft was a large industrial boiler that didn't work.

cheri1122 · Jul 28, 2014

NASA contributed greatly to the field of science fiction writing, as well, creating the genre of 'hard science' fiction. These books are written by rocket scientists [like astrophysicists], and they help make science and technology a bit more understandable to readers.
I see that as a huge contribution to civilization.

Turtle · Jul 29, 2014

cheri1122 said:
NASA contributed greatly to the field of science fiction writing, as well, creating the genre of 'hard science' fiction. These books are written by rocket scientists [like astrophysicists], and they help make science and technology a bit more understandable to readers.
I see that as a huge contribution to civilization.

And that's just one of the minor benefits. In 1958 when President Eisenhower signed the Space Act, which officially created the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, from the very beginning the purpose for the agency extended well beyond space ships and moon boots. The Act stipulated that its research and advancements should benefit all people, and in its 50-year history, NASA has certainly fulfilled that role. In spades.

People often, and utterly ignorantly, point to private enterprise as being able to do what NASA does, because, hey, just look at all the cool space-age stuff private enterprise comes up with that even NASA uses, without realizing that most of the stuff they point to came out of NASA research in the first place.

One of the goals of NASA's Advanced Ceramics Research Project was to come up with a material that would protect and insulate the infrared antenna of the Space Shuttle, the Mars rover, a couple of infrared satellites, and for things like heat seeking missile trackers. As part of the research for the project, a company called Ceradyne developed a product called TPA. TPA stands for translucent polycrystalline alumina. It's something that Trekkies know as transparent aluminum, which didn't even exist when they used it in Star Trek. But now it exists for real. Because of NASA. Another company called Unitek discovered TPA was strong enough to withstand use and translucent to be far more aesthetically pleasing, and it became the prime material for invisible braces, which is the most successful product in the orthodontic industry.

In 1972 the FDA started requiring eyeglass manufacturers to use plastic lenses rather than glass, because plastics are cheaper to use, better at absorbing ultraviolet radiation, lighter and not prone to shattering. However, they are prone to scratching, and scuffed lenses impair eyesight. Because of dirt and particles found in space environments, NASA developed a special coating to protect space equipment, particularly helmet visors. Foster-Grant licensed the same technology for sunglasses, which makes the lenses 10 times more scratch resistant than uncoated lenses, and for clear eyeglasses it's 20 times more resistant.

Everything from the design of you truck and car seat for comfort on a long drive, to the upturned ends on airplane wings which reduce drag and dramatically reduce fuel consumption can be traced to NASA research and applications. Thermometer pills which make sure athletes, firefighters and soldiers don't over heat. The list of firefighting equipment alone that came directly out of NASA is longer than your arm. My window coverings in the Sprinter are a high tech 7 layer material that is very lightweight and incredibly thermal insulating for convection, radiant and conductive heat. It was developed for use in satellites, the Space Station, and the Mars rovers.

The only reason the US is a leader in technology is because of the partnerships that our businesses have with NASA. The technologies created for NASA's scientific missions end up creating tens of thousands of jobs in the private sector and pump billions into the economy.

layoutshooter · Jul 29, 2014

Turtle said:
NASA is without question the most transparent agency the government has ever seen. Their books are open to the public, and always have been. The expenditures were then, and still are, exactly what gets reported to Congress, which eliminates the possibilities of last minute changes to contracts, kickbacks and politics. There is zero evidence for any of the claims you've just made. In fact, they're laugh-out-loud laughable. NASA has long been held up as the lone shining example of efficient and frugal spending. Project Mercury, the Original 7 astronaut program, spanned five years (1959–1963) and cost $277 million in 1965 dollars, which translate into $1.6 billion in today's dollars. By contrast the latest estimate on the USS Gerald R Ford is at $17.5 billion and will likely be well over $20 billion when it's delivered 2 years late in 2017. NASA's annual budget is less than that of the cost of the USS Gerald R Ford.

Either you are mis-remembering badly, or they're giving you a load of crap. There was no one, other than the Russians, and certainly no private enterprise in the entire free world, much less the US, who was working on anything at all having to do with manned spaceflight, until NASA was invented to do so. The total cost of the entire Apollo Program, in today's dollars, was $109 billion. Not a single private enterprise, or group of businesses, could touch even one manned mission to the Moon for that amount, much less multiple missions. NASA invented, literally, the ways and means of getting a man to the moon and back. Until they did it, no one else had a clue as to how to do it. The Russians never did it, because they didn't know how, and they spent more than 8 times on their space program than we did. At the end, all the Russians could come up with as a space capsule and landing craft was a large industrial boiler that didn't work.

NOPE NOPE and NOPE. I worked with far too many people, both in, and outside, of government, who tell the same tale.

When I worked on the design, specking, etc, of a "bird" I seen all kinds of "shaky" goings on. Contracts being "forced" by this Senator, or that congressman.

You can believe ANYTHING you want. I know what I dealt with. It makes no difference if you, or anyone else, agrees or not. I told you what a learned, that is that.

Turtle · Jul 29, 2014

layoutshooter said:
NOPE NOPE and NOPE. I worked with far too many people, both in, and outside, of government, who tell the same tale.

Then this is the most successful conspiracy in history, since you are the first person, since the Mercury Program began, to speak about this corruption, financial mismanagement, and incompetence in public. These are truly Earth shattering accusations.

Give me an example of a NOPE, NOPE, or NOPE, because everything I've stated is a fact. Verifiable and irrefutable.

[QUOTE,] When I worked on the design, specking, etc, of a "bird" I seen all kinds of "shaky" goings on. Contracts being "forced" by this Senator, or that congressman. [/QUOTE] There's simply no evidence of that, particularly since Congress didn't award NASA contracts, and had nothing to do with them.

You can believe ANYTHING you want. I know what I dealt with. It makes no difference if you, or anyone else, agrees or not. I told you what a learned, that is that.

Thanks. I'll just believe what the history and the evidence shows, instead of wild haired and utterly ignorant accusations pulled out of one's nether regions.

layoutshooter · Jul 29, 2014

Whatever you want. Makes no freakin difference to me.

You COULD check with Carl "Marx" Levin and ask him how we got stuck with several birds, and ground processors, by Ford Aerospace, formally known as "Aeronutronic Ford" Their "stuff" was pure crap, and yet, we got "stuck" with it.

The ONLY launch I was every on duty for, back in around '79 or ', was the launch of a "Ford" bird. We could "see it" all the way into orbit. When it was "turned on" the bird went into the "safe mode" and was never heard from again.

Not one of their birds "lived" for the designed "life span". And yet, we HAD to use their "STUFF".

You see, Levin had great say on our budget and the budget of the "NRO", SO, please Levin, or get you budget cut.

That is just how it worked. That "Worm" would show up at our base in England, almost every year I was there, in late Oct or early Nov, for a "Fact finding tour". You see he was a Wedgewood collector and the shop on base would stock up for him when they knew he was coming. He NEVER stepped into the ops building.

Turtle · Jul 29, 2014

layoutshooter said:
Whatever you want. Makes no freakin difference to me.

So no examples of a NOPE, or a NOPE, or even a NOPE then? The people over at space dot com will be very disappointed, since they track every penny of NASA's budget, and know where every one of them have been spent since the first one. They know the cost breakdown of every contract (salaries, materials, research) because unlike military contacts, NASA'S contractors are required, by NASA, to justify it. Like I said, NASA is the most transparent (and publicly scrutinized) agency we have ever seen. The things you allege simply did not happen, nor could they. It's laughable. You're better off trying to convince people that the Detroit Lions won last year's World Series. It's more believable, and plausible, than what you've alleged about NASA and it's Mercury, Gemini and Apollo programs.

xiggi · Jul 29, 2014

NOPE.

Sent from my Fisher Price - ABC123

layoutshooter · Jul 29, 2014

Like I said, whatever you want.

NOTHING the government did during the "Cold War" was transparent and pure. The space program WAS a major part of that part of history, it would not have been put into place without it and it was subject to much of the same "secret stuff" the rest of the "Cold War" was fought under.

There were "budgets" and then there were "budgets". Sometimes even DOD money some how "found" it's way into "civilian" space programs.

NASA, back then, and the entire "Space Race" was on gigantic military project. It purpose was to develop launch systems, mainly for ICBM's, secure communication systems, ways to miniaturize computers, and so on. Exploration was the "excuse" used to sell it to the Nation. Nothing more.

It is going to take me a few days to get a picture for you. My nephew in Germany, who is now in the process of a PCS move has it. It may shed a little light on this.