Did they think about this Scenario?

[8secondbull]

Many here have brought up multiple valid points on this topic in regards to most importantly safety, and also, challenges that the new hours of service place on daily operations. Myself being involved in a multiple truck operation as I am certian many here can relate to, day by day the phone calls come in, and the phone calls come in, and...... the phone calls continue to come in.

We hear everything from the world is canary yellow today to the sky is blue, and from the angle that my limited ability is able to see from, ( which I claim not to be better than anyone elses angle ) when I hear things like the Scenario that I have brought to the table, I guess the saying " old habits die hard " apply to myself here. To be perfectly honest, the way I was taught was, you get out there and bust it for your 70 hours and then when your out, take 34 hours off. I never would argue with the break and quite frankly was glad to get it. I never ran on a recap so therefore have no experence and little knowledge of explaining it to a driver that knowns as much or more about it than myself.

I believe the root to my post runs deeper than just the new hours of service, I guess im wondering where does it stop? As a nation we take God out of everything and say we as a people are intelligent enough to make our own decisions about ALL things no matter what. Then when things happen like a human being taking a gun and killing a crowd of people or a class room full of children we say the almighty word once again, the word that fixes all, REGULATE. Regulate, Regulate, Regulate. Regulate the gun. It was the gun's fault that happened, a machine with no thoughts, a machine that has no bearing on what is right or what is wrong. As a nation we choose not to regulate any of the R rated and beyond garbage that hits every movie theatre available because that is a matter of choice whether or not we want that in our lives but when it comes to having God involved we have no choice. So as mentioned above, It was the guns fault and it must be regulated.

We freely and endlessly enable a mindset that the government will provide everything hand over foot and then throw hatred and condemnation towards a mindset that the harder one chooses to work the more he/she will succeed because shame, shame, if one where to think for half a second that it is fair for everything and everybody in the whole wide world to be anything other than equal. Well I have news, the lion eats the gazelle and the bear hunts fish out of the river. Regulate that, people of congress and tell me how it works out for you, because im sure if you look hard enough you will find a survey that is tied to a study that says it's not fair for the animal kingdom to feed on one another.

To get back on topic though, I will do my best to continuosly learn not only the HOS portion of our industry but every aspect of our industry as it is most definitely ever changing, which is why I appreciate all the feedback everyone has given. I will also give it my all to adapt to the new regulation/hours of service that very directly affect all of our lives on a daily basis and I might even be able to provide a slight ammout of comedy to this post by saying I will do it with a smile on my face.

In closing as most here have probably figured out, It is not just the new hours of service that irritates me. It is the fact that we have had another government regulation added to the list of endless regulations already being forced upon us daily and the list keeps on going. I fear a day when the nation looks back and says " what have we become? ", if that day is not upon us already.

Thanks to all who have participated in my thought process.

 

[beachbum]

I hate to say this but you gave the scenario that could be torn apart and some of us did just that. It wasn't anything personal.

Now, the only major changes to the rules comes down to this 30 minute break and only one 34 per week. If those are real hard to figure out then this industry is in trouble.

30 minute break do it at 5.5 hours and not sooner even if you don't plan on using the full 14 hour clock. I say this because you could run into construction or a accident that would extend your day.

Only change I would make to the above is if you have a delivery that would be less then 8 hours from the time a person came on-duty that day.

As for the 34, well its 168 hours (7 days)from the time you started your last 34 hour restart. It's simple to understand this. Only thing people have to worry about is not going past 1 am to start the 34 or then the 34 would be closer to 57 hours or so, just off the top of my head.

Running team well if you don't need to drive then the driver in the sleeper will get the reset one day before the other driver. Just like your scenario.

 

[moose]

30 minute break do it at 5.5 hours and not sooner even if you don't plan on using the full 14 hour clock. I say this because you could run into construction or a accident that would extend your day.

Only change I would make to the above is if you have a delivery that would be less then 8 hours from the time a person came on-duty that day..

O'h brilliant, the adverse conditions permitting extends the 14 hours clock by 2 more. the new rules do not apply it to the 8 hours clock.

 

[beachbum]

O'h brilliant, the adverse conditions permitting extends the 14 hours clock by 2 more. the new rules do not apply it to the 8 hours clock.

Yep, but you cannot go past the 14 hour clock.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/truck/driver/hos/fmcsa-guide-to-hos.PDF

If unexpected adverse driving conditions slow you down, you may drive up to 2 extra hours to complete what could have been driven in normal conditions. This means you could dr ive for up to 13 hours, which is 2 hours more than allowed under normal conditions. Adverse driving conditions mean things that you did not know about when you started your run, like snow, fog, or a shut-down of traffic due to a crash. Adverse driving conditions do not include situations that you should have known about, such as congested traffic during typical “rush hour” periods. Even though you may drive 2 extra hours under this exception, you must not drive after the 14th consecutive hour after coming on duty.


Example: You come to work at 7:00 a.m., start driving at 8:00 a.m., and drive 9 hours when you hit heavy fog at 5:00 p.m. The fog was not forecasted. At this point, the adverse driving conditions exception would allow you to drive for 4 more hours (2 hours to get to 11 and 2 extra hours due to the fog), taking you to 9:00 p.m. for a total of 13 hours of driving. If, however, you come to work at 7:00 a.m., start driving at 12:00 p.m. and drive into fog at 5:00 p.m., you could still only drive until 9:00 p. m. for a total of 9 hours of driving. You would have to stop driving at 9:00 p.m. because you would have reached the 14-hour limit. This regulation is found in Section 395.1

 

[mjmsprt40]

Driving 8 hours without rest. Driving 11 hours in good conditions, 13 in hard conditions--- and you're complaining that the government makes you take a break???

Most of the working world only gets one weekend every week, so you might have a hard sell trying to make other folk think you're oppressed on that one. That even assumes that a worker gets both Saturday and Sunday off--- I used to work in a factory and I remember mandatory Saturday overtime, which meant you only got Sunday off-- and you hoped the powers-that-be wouldn't grab that, too.

Of course what we do for a living now doesn't compare with what I did in the factory-- that was heavy work-- but if you're gonna try to sell one 34 hour restart every week as being oppressed, and being forced to take a half hour break in 8 hours of driving as a hardship, you're in for a real hard sell.

 

[ATeam]

Most of the working world only gets one weekend every week, so you might have a hard sell trying to make other folk think you're oppressed on that one.

That's one of the challenges in this ongoing debate. The general public does not know what it is like to live and work on the road. So, when they hear about time off in trucking, they relate it to what they know about time off from their work, but the two are anything but the same.

Expediitng is a business in which we are regulated by the hour but paid by the mile. That sets up the debate for all sorts of quirky misunderstandings. If the regulators want us to get good sleep, they need to provide the ability to be as flexible with our off time as shippers and carriers are with our on time.

Time off in trucking is nowhere near what time off is in traditional jobs. We not only work in the trucks, we live in them too. Our schedule is never regular, yet the law now wants us to take breaks and restarts on a particular schedule.

How different is it? Tell a four wheeler that from now on, when he or she is on a break from work, it is not permitted to drive anywhere, or if it is permitted, it must be in a vehicle other than the one that is convenient to access. Tell the four-wheeler that and guage the response. This illustrates just one aspect of how different time off from trucking is from time off traditional jobs.

One thing I experience from time to time is four-wheel drivers expressing amazement when I say something like "a six hour drive" or "a short, 400 mile trip." They have no clue how comfortable and relaxing time like that on the open road can be. They sit in cars with their legs almost straight out in front of them. We sit in captain's chairs with air cushions, arm rests and all the comforts of home within easy reach when your codriver is there to help. For them, it is sometimes a real pain to even see when they drive. For us, those vision-blocking trucks are interesting in themselves and when a truck is not in front of us, we can see all around.

They go back to the one time the drive several hundred miles straight through and got so tired they almost killed themselves and others. They go back to their college days and their long but dumb drive to Florida on a lark. But they don't go anywhere near the truth becuase, in their experience, they have nothing with which to accurately relate.

Come on, people. It's fun to drive! At least when you drive a rig that is meant to be driven like you mean it.

 

[BobWolf]

Yep,
O.O.I.D.A. was quite happy about Anne Ferro leading the F.M.C.S.A. as former Maryland Motor Truck Association. Gee who are the ones represented by a state trucking association And I remember saying to just about everybody the feces will hit the fan for us owner opperators.


Anybody remember this Land Line article??????
I do

Land Line Magazine: The Business Magazine for Professional Truckers

11/13/2009

BULLETIN: Ferro starts Monday as FMCSA administrator

Friday, Nov. 13 – Anne Ferro, former president of the Maryland Motor Truck Association, was officially sworn in today as the new administrator of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration.
A spokesman for FMCSA told Land Line that Ferro starts her new job on Monday, Nov. 16.
At the helm, Ferro will focus on reducing crashes, injuries and fatalities involving commercial vehicles.
She was confirmed to the post by the Senate earlier this month after being nominated in June by President Barack Obama.

OOIDA leadership endorses Ferro as administrator.

In addition to working in the trucking industry, Ferro also spent six years as Maryland’s motor vehicle administrator.

– By David Tanner, staff writer
[email protected]

Bob Wolf.

 

[ATeam]

Yep,
O.O.I.D.A. was quite happy about Anne Ferro leading the F.M.C.S.A. as former Maryland Motor Truck Association. Gee who are the ones represented by a state trucking association And I remember saying to just about everybody the feces will hit the fan for us owner opperators.

Not unlike a family situation where the man who is about marry your daughter looks good on the surface and you welcome to the family because you are hoping for the best and it is the polite thing to do; and you want to get off to a good start and on the right foot.

But as time passes, his flaws emerge, they are bad enough to be fatal, and you are encouraging and supporting your daughter in the divorce.

 

[8secondbull]

That's one of the challenges in this ongoing debate. The general public does not know what it is like to live and work on the road. So, when they hear about time off in trucking, they relate it to what they know about time off from their work, but the two are anything but the same. Expediitng is a business in which we are regulated by the hour but paid by the mile. That sets up the debate for all sorts of quirky misunderstandings. If the regulators want us to get good sleep, they need to provide the ability to be as flexible with our off time as shippers and carriers are with our on time.Time off in trucking is nowhere near what time off is in traditional jobs. We not only work in the trucks, we live in them too. Our schedule is never regular, yet the law now wants us to take breaks and restarts on a particular schedule. How different is it? Tell a four wheeler that from now on, when he or she is on a break from work, it is not permitted to drive anywhere, or if it is permitted, it must be in a vehicle other than the one that is convenient to access. Tell the four-wheeler that and guage the response. This illustrates just one aspect of how different time off from trucking is from time off traditional jobs. One thing I experience from time to time is four-wheel drivers expressing amazement when I say something like "six hour drive" or "a short, 400 mile trip." They have no clue how comfortable and relaxing time like that on the open road can be. They sit in cars with their legs almost straight out in front of them. We sit in captain's chairs with air cushions, arm rests and all the comforts of home within easy reach when your codriver is there to help. For them, it is sometimes a real pain to even see when they drive. For us, those vision-blocking trucks are interesting in themselves and when a truck is not in front of us, we can see all around. They go back to the one time the drive several hundred miles straight through and got so tired they almost killed themselves and others. They go back to their dumb-*** drive to Florida on a lark back in their college days. But they don't go anywhere near the truth becuase, in their experience, they have nothing with which to accurately relate. Come on, people. It's fun to drive! At least when you drive a rig that is meant to be driven like you mean it.

Kudos Phil, I dont think this could have been said any better.

 

[Jenny]

I have really fought to stay out of this whole debate on the new hos, but am now going to join. The half hour break isnt horribly bad, it promotes drivers stopiing to eat, walk etc. But for me, I wake up when the truck stops moving. Then lets say Nick comes back to make food, turning on the lights, the microwave, sitting on the edge of the bed to cook, I am awake. I have ear plugs and a sleep mask I wear, but still doesnt stop me from waking.


I am also the night driver. I prefer to sleep during the day not at night, been a long standing personal preference. Taking the two 1-5 am time periods for a 34 really messes with how we prefer to run. Honestly, other than when Nick ran solo for 9 months, I dont think he has driven a full night shift in 4 years. He doesnt like to drive that time, I do.

Also, I find it much harder to safely find a place to park at night to take my break. Rest areas are full, I dont want to take a parkingspot from someone who needs a 10hr break, when I will only be there 30 minutes. Pulling in front of the fuel island is not an option, because i refuse to be one of the idiots I curse at night when I stop to fuel.

And lastly, with secure loads that do not fall into the explosives exception, how can the driver logging the sleeper break or the driver doing the 1/2 break be legally watching the load from the cab or 25ft distance of the truck. Arent you technically performing a duty for the truck even though off duty for your mandated 1/2 hr break? So what happens when there become issues with these loads, say one gets hijacked, your co drivers logging sleeper, ajd your od. How is that providing the "secured service" to the customer unless you are in a safehaven?



One more thing that really angers me. One night while stopping to grab a snack, a guy in font of me orders a large coffee with an extra shot of espresso, turns and says " jus got donr working a 14 hr shift and now taking my kids to Florida for vacation, half way there, hoping this will kick in for the rest of the trip."
Sent from my VS920 4G using Xparent Pink Tapatalk 2

 

[x06col]

Better be keerful what you type there Jenny,, the wrong clown might read it and say, ""wow, there is a whole new herd of folks we can regulate (the vacationers) and expand government bunches".

Anyway, until it gets way bad I need to suggest Hoyle is a ***** too. We just have to learn to understand the hand of cards we are dealt and play them the best we can, or, not sit down at the table.

 

[8secondbull]

Better be keerful what you type there Jenny,, the wrong clown might read it and say, ""wow, there is a whole new herd of folks we can regulate (the vacationers) and expand government bunches".

Anyway, until it gets way bad I need to suggest Hoyle is a ***** too. We just have to learn to understand the hand of cards we are dealt and play them the best we can, or, not sit down at the table.

Well..... Im not trying to come across smart but that is what it's going to take.
In no way do I support it, but give it a shot. Tell every family in america that they are going to have to go get a class A cdl to pull that 40 ft. 5th wheel camper behind their 1ton dual rear wheel pickup AND run the exact same logbook we have to. Same goes for motor homes that are larger than a C straight truck in some cases.
Then lets take a study to see if RV sales drop. Combine the multi million dollar RV production industry with ticked off lets go party america and lets see how many letters, phone calls, emails, faxes and smoke signals get sent to Anne Ferro, the Obama Administration and anyone within a lifeline radius of whatever hotline all that fun goes to. Then we can see if all the folks who started this in the first place think they have a full hand in poker and want to play, or perhaps try to fold and wait for a new hand.

 

[Turtle]

The problem is, of course, the 5th wheel campers and motor homes aren't involved in a high percentage of accidents, and the ones they are involved in don't usually kill everyone but the driver. That's why they aren't regulated. It's also why cargo vans aren't regulated. As soon as vans or RVs start posing an unreasonable risk to the driving public, they will be regulated. Until then, you loggers will just have to continue to sulk and pout about how unfair it is.

 

[paullud]

The problem is, of course, the 5th wheel campers and motor homes aren't involved in a high percentage of accidents, and the ones they are involved in don't usually kill everyone but the driver. That's why they aren't regulated. It's also why cargo vans aren't regulated. As soon as vans or RVs start posing an unreasonable risk to the driving public, they will be regulated. Until then, you loggers will just have to continue to sulk and pout about how unfair it is.

The idiocy of targeting trucks when you see statistics like this is just ridiculous.

2007: 85% of cars were assigned driver factors versus 26% of trucks • 2008: 85% of cars were assigned driver factors versus 26% of trucks • 2009: 81% of cars were assigned driver factors versus 22% of trucks

For those that don't know the numbers will be more than 100% each year because sometimes both drivers did something wrong.

There is a very clear group of people that need to be targeted but statistics and common sense say it isn't the truck drivers. The dangerous way cars drive around trucks that cost thousands of lives I believe can partially be attributed to the way the government acts. Then you toss in a biased media and American's self centered ways which create a dangerous environment for everyone on the road.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using EO Forums mobile app

 

[OntarioVanMan]

What I witnessed today with Billy Bob Big rigger they should surely get those jerks off the road... With a holes like that you'll never get the public on your side

 

[paullud]

What I witnessed today with Billy Bob Big rigger they should surely get those jerks off the road... With a holes like that you'll never get the public on your side

Honestly I am very borderline with turning in other drivers for dangerous behavior, not just for some minor mistake but the intentionally dangerous things. The reason I haven't is because of the enviroment that has been created where you feel the need to stick with your kind. Luckily those idiots are few and far between and I believe most will be out of the industry soon because it is usually a sign of someone getting fed up.

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[OntarioVanMan]

Honestly goodness he was 10+ over the speed limit left lane had his grill buried in everybody's bumper just bullying them over

 

[Ragman]

Honestly goodness he was 10+ over the speed limit left lane had his grill buried in everybody's bumper just bullying them over

 

[mjmsprt40]

Jenny mentioned something about that huge coffee that bears thinking about. Too many people-- whether driving big rigs or Toyota Priuses-- think drinking a huge coffee will help when you've been awake for way too many hours already and you're trying to fit in those last few miles. I know, I used to do it myself. Guess what, folks, it doesn't. About all it does really do is mess up your attempt at sleep when you finally do realize you've had enough. Of course, by then Tinkerbelle is sitting in your shotgun seat and giving you directions for the next turn-- the bad part is you're the only one who can see her, the worse part is that her directions are a wee bit faulty, but by then you're too buzzed to care. Fergodsakemanpulloverandgetsomesleep.

 

[ATeam]

What I witnessed today with Billy Bob Big rigger they should surely get those jerks off the road... With a holes like that you'll never get the public on your side

I doubt that it would do any good to tell these big-rig bullies this, but the harm they do is serious and long lasting. People remember it when they are terrified or outraged, and that is a common response when a big rig rides the bumper of a four-wheeler trying to bully the four-wheeler out of the way.

You seldom know who is in the car ahead of you. It could be a journalist or just some ordinary Joe who, ten years later may sit in a city council somewhere where a truck parking ordinance is up for a vote, or who two years from now is called to serve on a jury in a truck accident case. Or it might be the mother of three kids who hear the story when she comes home and decide then that they don't like trucks because they don't like what a truck did to mom today.

Bullying a car from behind is an extremely dangerous thing to do, both in the obvious safety sense and in the trucking PR sense.