Democrats grow confident ahead of health care vote

[Pilgrim]

Below is a YouTube link to Rep. Paul Ryan's (R-WI) speech on the House floor regarding the deficits and unfunded mandates created by ObamaCare. It's rather long, but give it at least to the five min mark so you can hear his most important points.

YouTube - Paul Ryan raises a point of order: "This bill is the mother of all unfunded mandates"

This guy really knows his stuff when it comes to the number crunching and budgetary processes involved in govt. If he decides to move into national politics he's got a bright future.

 

[Turtle]

Best quote: "This bill is a fiscal Frankenstein"

 

[greg334]

The House argued its way through a thicket of Republican objections toward an evening vote on the bill to extend coverage to 32 million Americans who lack it, ban insurers from denying coverage on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions and cut deficits by an estimated $138 billion over a decade.

Hope this helps with your accounting!

NO reading a lot of this crap doesn't put into actual terms but union spin propganda terms for the idiots to think something is right when it is wrong. The entire mess doesn't make sense when they are increasing Medicaid rolls by 30% and the cost of some of the reforms have to do with payments to families up to $88k per household.

The only way this will reduce the deficit is if it actually defunds the Social Security/other budgets by 40%. Cutting costs, reducing the operating defiect and so on has to do with the budget, not a ponzi scheme.

The actual line items that will be reduced will not reduce the operating deficient as it is predicted but instead what is actually happening here is this;

Taxes and fees will be applied in the now, meaning that they will force people to pay so to created a fund to hedge against the costs of the future healthcare by the way of increasing taxes, taxing the higher preimium policies and possibly be lower the "you are rich standard from $250k to $150k through the adjustment of the tax bracket. This is done the same exact way Medicare was establish, pay now for funding the program that will become on line within 3 or 4 years.

What the real problem is simply that they can't keep an honest balance to things and go back to borrow money to pay for things they later add.

RIGHT now Social Security is coming into crisis mode and we are going to end up getting screwed over the mismanagement of the funds in Social Security. I can tell with a lot of certianty, this is not being passed to provide health care for any one person but to do two things - save Social Security and to set us up for other programs later on, like immigration.

Reading the summary of this cluster**ck of a bill, I can tell you that a lot of people are going to be screwed by this and it won't be the people who are paying the bill for it. It will be the ones who are screaming that it is a right - I will be so glad for it.

 

[Pilgrim]

To get an idea of what will most likely happen to this travesty of a bill, one has to do a little research on the history of Medicare and it's projected costs beginning in 1966. For that year, the spending was $3 Billion, and the House Ways & Means Committee projected that by 1990 the outlay would increase to $12 Billion; the actual figure for 1990 was $107 BILLION. For 2009 the amount was figured to be $484 Billion. Those politicians were really straight shooters weren't they? For some more interesting numbers:

http://www.kff.org/medicare/upload/7305-04-2.pdf

Now we're being told another fairy tale about ObamaCare, by politicians who will say anything and do anything to cram this unpopular and unintelligible mess down the public's throat. Pelosi said the other day that they would have to pass the bill to see what's in it. Well, I guess we're about to find out.

 

[greg334]

Pilgrim,
Go back father than that.

Social Security was sold on the idea that the rate of taxes would never go up, but it did. By 1956 the tax was 4% and by 1961 it was up to 6% and the expansion was on its way.

See the promise was made that it would never go up, it would remain at the original 1% with a $3000 cap.

Did you know that Social Security money that we put into the system is not our, we are not entitled to that money.

 

[1CHINGON]

NO reading a lot of this crap doesn't put into actual terms but union spin propganda terms for the idiots to think something is right when it is wrong.

Why are you so opposed to ensuring that as many people as possible in the same country you live in are cared for? Does it bother you and the rest opposed to this measure that people get proper health care? Am I missing something here? Do you prefer to see poor people uncared for? The system is already a mess. This will at least allow many more people to get medical attention when they need it. Do you oppose this? Proper medical care to the needy?

 

[Turtle]

Your opening salvo in this thread was, "To all of those that oppose affordable care to all in this country..." which no one opposes, but is not what this bill provides, not even close.

The famous Harvard study, which the Democrats in this fight keep beating people over the head with, showed that 45,000 poor and uninsured people in United States die every year due to lack of health care. Therefore, we must do something about it, right? Yeah, well, here's a news flash, the same study also showed that 178,000 insured Americans die from medical or hospital error every year. Now waddya gonna do?

 

[greg334]

I assume you are talking about me.

Why are you so opposed to ensuring that as many people as possible in the same country you live in are cared for?

I never said I am opposed to ensuring people are cared for but I am opposed to people not being involved with their own health care.

I am opposed to having the FEDERAL government tell me what I can and can not do. This will be the only way things will operate going forward - history has proven that. We are no different from any other country with this plan, it removes the rights and puts in place the idea that EVERYONE needs to be equal at the same time to further reinforce the division between the common people and the ruling elite.

Does it bother you and the rest opposed to this measure that people get proper health care?

Proper health care?

This is not about proper health care and it bothers me to see the parties involved (health insurance companies, drug companies and so on) all trying to get a share of the action through legislation.

What is proper health care?

If you are talking about access, then that's a fallacy. no one stops people from accessing proper health care but then what is access?

See maybe you are part of the group that doesn't get what it is really about, I mean the entire take care of yourself stuff.

That group doesn't want to be responsible for anything, like our great house speaker said "Think of an economy where people could be an artist or a photographer or a writer without worrying about keeping their day job in order to have health insurance" - how frick'n lazy have we gotten?

When artists and photographers are more important than the people who work, then there is a problem. It is another elite class we can do without.

Imagine how better it could be if people actually engaged their providers and questioned things for themselves instead of paying the co-pay to make tee time.

Am I missing something here?

Yep you are missing a lot. The passage of the health care reform follows a lot of other reforms that messed everything up.

Do you prefer to see poor people uncared for?

Poor people, WE DON'T HAVE POOR PEOPLE HERE.

Poor people are ones who live like they do in Rio or in Rwanda or in Sudan - that's poor. We have rich poor people who seem to be able to afford a lot more than a lot of working people do.

The system is already a mess.

It is a mess for a lot of reasons, one is mandates the other is people just don't get the connection between medicare/medicaid and the system costs.

This will at least allow many more people to get medical attention when they need it.

Not really, read the bill, see where the actual care is and then tell me because I haven't see it.

Do you oppose this?

I oppose the bill. I don't oppose the care, not the idea that we can actually cover or help cover everyone who are CITIZENS.

Work in the industry, not being a nurse or something like that but actually work with insurance companies and doctors offices and you will see the real mess.

Proper medical care to the needy?

Proper care?

What is that?

Define it please.

 

[letzrockexpress]

Oh, I have touched a nerve. What happened to our friendship pact?

I hope you are not refering to me or the olive branches we extended to each other some months ago...For the record, as far as I know, the sword remains firmly embedded in the stone. I am represented by only one persona...besides that my wheels were turning nearly nonstop the past 5 days. I am no longer an "antagonist". by the way, I am dead set against socialized medicine..

 

[OntarioVanMan]

I hope you are not refering to me or the olive branches we extended to each other some months ago...For the record, as far as I know, the sword remains firmly embedded in the stone. I am represented by only one persona...besides that my wheels were turning nearly nonstop the past 5 days. I am no longer an "antagonist".

I am amazed what an impression you and Dougie have made...every new persona is accused and or suspect of being you or him...*LOL* Righties sure are a paranoid bunch...

 

[greg334]

Hey I'm not a righty, stop that ovm, you canadian.

 

[Turtle]

I am amazed what an impression you and Dougie have made...every new persona is accused and or suspect of being you or him...*LOL* Righties sure are a paranoid bunch...

You would be both amazed and astounded to learn just how many screen names Dougie has created here, though. It's not a handful, or even a few dozen. He was at it even again this morning.