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EnglishLady
Veteran Expediter
This is how the BBC is reporting it
BBC News - US Senate lifts 'don't ask, don't tell' gay soldier ban
BBC News - US Senate lifts 'don't ask, don't tell' gay soldier ban
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Layout, the acommidations being made right now as Rlent mentioned are going to be the same accomidations in the future, there will not be gay showers and gay mess and gay style cloths. There is no impact on rights, this is a special group who is now allowed to be open about their sexual preference and nothing more.
What?
Into the 21st century?
Not at all.
We have no reason to change because like other things, we needed to evolve without government intervention. The problem is what a majority has perceived as abnormal has been spun by science, psychologist and the media as normal as Mom, Chevy and apple pie but like civil rights, we have devolved into being forced to accept someone else even though their behavior and attitude goes against someone else's core beliefs. We have made a few steps backward on our society by allowing the movement to be equal to the civil rights movement where no one had choices.
What?
Into the 21st century?
Not at all.
We have no reason to change because like other things, we needed to evolve without government intervention. The problem is what a majority has perceived as abnormal has been spun by science, psychologist and the media as normal as Mom, Chevy and apple pie but like civil rights, we have devolved into being forced to accept someone else even though their behavior and attitude goes against someone else's core beliefs. We have made a few steps backward on our society by allowing the movement to be equal to the civil rights movement where no one had choices.
This is just a last minute gesture by BHO and the Democrats to appease their liberal base, and of course there were a handfull of Republicans that will go along to show their "bipartisanship". As Greg pointed out, the normalization of homosexuality has been going on for a generation now, spearheaded by the entertainment industry and the mainstream media as being equal to the civil rights struggles of the '60s and '70's. There could be no better example of comparing apples to oranges.
Until this legislation came about, homosexuals could serve in the military without their sexual orientation being an open issue; enlist, do your job and go about your business without political and social agendas being mixed into military missions. The majority of homosexuals that enlist will probably continue to do just that. However, how long will it be until some flaming "queen" shows up at the enlistment office for the Marines to show that he's entitled to join, mingle with the troops and just dares anyone to say or do anything he perceives as discriminatory. So what if he's a cross-dresser and likes to wear Victoria's Secret panties under his fatigues, shave his legs and paint his toenails? I'm sure these sort of displays wouldn't bother any of his fellow jarheads in the barracks during basic training. Or suppose this guy wants to join the Navy and volunteer as a submariner? How many of his mates would mind spending three month stretches of duty under water in close quarters with this sort of individual? Surely that won't have any effect on the morale of the troops and the cohesiveness of their units.
Granted this is an extreme example, but it's entirely possible - especially if some gay activist comes along solely concerned with a political / social agenda that wants to make a name for himself as the first openly gay soldier or sailor to take advantage of the new law.
The problem with so many of our congress is that so few of them have military experience. They seem to think that the military operates under the same rules of society in general, and functions similar to a large corporation's business model - of course, this is not the case at all. The next couple of years should give us time enough to see if there are any negative ramifications from this decision. The re-enlistment rates should be the first indicator to give us an idea of how the military men and women really feel about this experiment in social engineering.
Until this legislation came about, homosexuals could serve in the military without their sexual orientation being an open issue; enlist, do your job and go about your business without political and social agendas being mixed into military missions. The majority of homosexuals that enlist will probably continue to do just that. However, how long will it be until some flaming "queen" shows up at the enlistment office for the Marines to show that he's entitled to join, mingle with the troops and just dares anyone to say or do anything he perceives as discriminatory. So what if he's a cross-dresser and likes to wear Victoria's Secret panties under his fatigues, shave his legs and paint his toenails? I'm sure these sort of displays wouldn't bother any of his fellow jarheads in the barracks during basic training. Or suppose this guy wants to join the Navy and volunteer as a submariner? How many of his mates would mind spending three month stretches of duty under water in close quarters with this sort of individual? Surely that won't have any effect on the morale of the troops and the cohesiveness of their units.
Granted this is an extreme example, but it's entirely possible - especially if some gay activist comes along solely concerned with a political / social agenda that wants to make a name for himself as the first openly gay soldier or sailor to take advantage of the new law.
The problem with so many of our congress is that so few of them have military experience. They seem to think that the military operates under the same rules of society in general, and functions similar to a large corporation's business model - of course, this is not the case at all. The next couple of years should give us time enough to see if there are any negative ramifications from this decision. The re-enlistment rates should be the first indicator to give us an idea of how the military men and women really feel about this experiment in social engineering.
What does this mean (from the article quoted)?:
'as a compromise'?
How did they become dismissed... because they 'told'? Because they were 'found out'? Suspected?
It seems pretty obvious that if they have lost that many in 17 years, no wonder they're going to lift it because it seems they need more bodies and not enough heteros are signing up??
Also... does homosexuality (forgive me if this is not a politically correct term any more) not exist amongst Muslims? I didn't know it was something that only applied to certain segments of humanity? As copdsux noted, it isn't exactly something one chooses... the only choice is whether one chooses to come out of the closet or not.
I just read of one officer who was discharged after a superior officer read his personal email, so some aren't going willingly, or violating the DADT rules, either.
The only thing proven by the 'core beliefs' of millions is that millions can be wrong. As when they believed the earth was flat, bleeding people was beneficial to their health, and witches were real, and burned at the stake for it.
Pretty ironic, you ask me, how the 'tough guys' are scared of having to shower with the 'girly men'. And pretty indicative of their character that they have to label them with pejoratives, too.
No surprise, though, given that we still consider war to be a viable option for settling so many disagreements - how wasteful we are, with our greatest natural resource: people.
The only thing proven by the 'core beliefs' of millions is that millions can be wrong. As when they believed the earth was flat, bleeding people was beneficial to their health, and witches were real, and burned at the stake for it.
Pretty ironic, you ask me, how the 'tough guys' are scared of having to shower with the 'girly men'. And pretty indicative of their character that they have to label them with pejoratives, too.
No surprise, though, given that we still consider war to be a viable option for settling so many disagreements - how wasteful we are, with our greatest natural resource: people.
jaminjim
Veteran Expediter
Well then you can easily prove us wrong. Next time you go to the truck stop, leave the door open when you shower, don't be bashful now, all the way open. Part of the problem is that some will take this reward as something other than what it is. Some will try to push their girlishness one step to far and they will get hurt badly, probably very badly. And it will all be blamed on the beater.
jaminjim
Veteran Expediter
Copdsux asked a very pertinent question, which no one has answered: if you believe sexuality is a choice, when did you choose yours?
Not sure that it is a choice, but it sure is a choice to be a girly man.
I've known a lot of gays, male and female, and two things were clear to me: they didn't 'choose' to be society's outcasts, and they didn't have the slightest interest in 'converting' anyone else. They know better than anyone, that it cannot be done.
The suggestion that I shower with the door open would be comparable, IF a soldier had to worry about being raped by a gay man [or becoming pregnant as a result of said rape] - a thing I've never heard of occurring. Have you?
And again: when did you choose to be heterosexual?
The suggestion that I shower with the door open would be comparable, IF a soldier had to worry about being raped by a gay man [or becoming pregnant as a result of said rape] - a thing I've never heard of occurring. Have you?
And again: when did you choose to be heterosexual?
You could be right, some may take it too far, deliberately provoking a response. But I don't agree that 'the beater' would be blamed, in that case, because provocation is taken into account in allegations of assault. If someone is going to ask for it, then they deserve what they get.
Cheri, Cheri, Cheri, you know darn good and well that it'll be a straight up hate crime, regardless of the provocation. You could run a pedestrian down while they were crossing at a cross-walk, and if they turned out to be gay, it's a hate crime. Dood at Rutgers jumped off the GW Bridge because someone secretly videoed him having sex with another man, and his resulting suicide was because of a hate crime.
As an aside, what I find most amusing about all this is that there are those who think special barracks should be set aside for a specific group of people who like to sleep with each other, and by sleep I don't mean sleep. The military will become the new gay section of eHarmony. Join the Army. Be all you can be. Join the Coast Guard and be Part of the Action. Aim High in the Air Force. Join the Navy. It's not just a job, it's an adventure. The Few, the Proud, the Marines are looking for a Few Good Men. I'll bet they are.
As an aside, what I find most amusing about all this is that there are those who think special barracks should be set aside for a specific group of people who like to sleep with each other, and by sleep I don't mean sleep. The military will become the new gay section of eHarmony. Join the Army. Be all you can be. Join the Coast Guard and be Part of the Action. Aim High in the Air Force. Join the Navy. It's not just a job, it's an adventure. The Few, the Proud, the Marines are looking for a Few Good Men. I'll bet they are.
So Missie, you've known a LOT of 
s an lizzies over the years eh? What zactly in your mind makes em so special? I'm only asking the question?
In my experience, the gay soldier performs their duty as well as anyone else as a rule. Except for the Dikes, them be hell on wheels!!!!!
s an lizzies over the years eh? What zactly in your mind makes em so special? I'm only asking the question?In my experience, the gay soldier performs their duty as well as anyone else as a rule. Except for the Dikes, them be hell on wheels!!!!!
I bet you know some women like that who aren't gay, though, cos I do too.So Missie, you've known a LOT of
When I worked [for a Houston publisher] as a proofreader, I was maybe the only hetero in the whole place - and not one of them ever treated me any differently for it. I respected that, and them.
What zactly in your mind makes em so special? I'm only asking the question?
They aren't any more or less special than anyone else - some are great people, some are not. Some are troublemakers, enjoying the whole [fake] 'girly' thing, when they know it bothers some guys. [But then, my ex and his friends made it a point to act like Animal House, telling fart jokes, acting racist, just trying to bait me, and I generally ignored it, because I knew what they were doing.] Some folks are just immature, no matter who they sleep with.
In my experience, the gay soldier performs their duty as well as anyone else as a rule. Except for the Dikes, them be hell on wheels!!!!!
Do you think all gay men are looking to 'convert' straights?
And why should an unwelcome advance from one guy to another be any different than one from a guy to a woman who isn't interested? Y'all can say "no, thank you" same as we do, right?
And no, I don't think all men are rapists - but showering with the door open in a truckstop would bring them out of the woodwork, methinks.
jaminjim
Veteran Expediter
Nope.
The next time you are in a shower with 15 other men hit me up and I'll answer that question for you.
That will be the first words out of my mouth.
Well thanks for that.
-
So an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure?
Seriously Jim - have you never showered with a same sex group? I haven't since high school, but I really don't think that it would lead to any 'unwelcome advances' - you admitted that gay men aren't out to convert straights, right?
All the angst is in some men's heads - haven't seen anything other than that to say it's ever even happened, much less been a problem.
The problem is from the straight men, and what they're afraid of, IMO.
All the angst is in some men's heads - haven't seen anything other than that to say it's ever even happened, much less been a problem.
The problem is from the straight men, and what they're afraid of, IMO.
jaminjim
Veteran Expediter
As has been noted already, people in the military are already taking showers with gays. They have been for years, decades, centuries, even. Not really a lot of problems with people bringing their own wash cloth hangers so far.
However, if you create gay-only showers, sheesh, you'll never get them outta there.
However, if you create gay-only showers, sheesh, you'll never get them outta there.