csa 2010 scores

[ATeam]

If there is a light on your truck,it has to work,that includes the extra chicken lights.In most states it's a 35 dollar fine for every light that doesn't burn

The regulation is quoted below. Note that there is a difference between chicken lights (auxilary lamps, additional lamps, lamps not required by the regulation) and "all lamps required by this subpart."

In other words, chicken lights do not have to work. I am open to correction on this since we have 94 chicken lights on our truck. But since they are not required lights, I won't worry much if one goes out. If you or someone else can cite the reg that says all lights must work, and not just required lights, I'm all ears.

It is significant that the regulation itself cautions about misconstruing it to mean that auxilary lamps should be capable of working at all times. Clearly, an auxiliary or additional lamp is not required to work at all times.

The only lamps that are required to operate at all times are "all lamps required by this subpart." "This subpart" refers to Subpart B of Part 393. You can view the subparts here.

Again, I am open to correction, but unless someone comes up with a regulation that overrides this one, I will remain confident in my opinion that chicken lights do not need to work at all times.

§393.9 Lamps operable, prohibition of obstructions of lamps and reflectors.

(a) All lamps required by this subpart shall be capable of being operated at all times. This paragraph shall not be construed to require that any auxiliary or additional lamp be capable of operating at all times.

 

[greg334]

I will repeat my post ...

The one question nooo one seems to want to answer at the state or federal level is this;

What constitutes a lamp, is it the bulb or the unit?

The FMCSA definition for lamp is as follows

Lamp. A device used to produce artificial light.

Here is the question:

You have a lamp unit, red or amber and it has two bulbs in it, if does one of the bulbs does not function mean the unit is not functioning?

Under the definition, the unit is producing an artificial light.

 

[Dynamite 1]

good post phil, i mean that does come right out and state the fact between the two. i will mark this in my book for future reference also.

greg, also a very good point. i have heard this argument before. i never worry about one bulb in a two bulb lite being out, cause in actuality, the lamp is working and producing lite

 

[ATeam]

good post phil, i mean that does come right out and state the fact between the two. i will mark this in my book for future reference also.

Give TeamCaffee credit. She was the one who posted the reg itself.

...i never worry about one bulb in a two bulb lite being out, cause in actuality, the lamp is working and producing lite

That is one interpretation, the advantage of which is you can run the multi-diode (or multi-bulb) lamp a while longer until all the diodes fail. However, on a required lamp, I would not force the issue. An officer could just as easily argue that the lamp is not fully operational, and therefore is not operational, and therefore illegal. And, the officer does not have to argue. He or she can simply write the citation and tell you to argue it with a judge.

Many trucks have LED lamps where lamps are required. Many of these lamps have multiple diodes within the same lamp housing, and it is not uncommon for one of more diodes to fail while the rest continue to work. In such a case, I would replace the required lamp instead of risk getting a citation that I could not make a strong case against.

Also note that we sometimes have customers who do vehicle inspections before loading the truck. If you serve such customers and one decided that all diodes in each lamp must work (instead of just some diodes within a particular lamp), you might lose the load.

We had that very thing happen to us once in a fleet owner's truck. An inspection was done and the inspector disqualified the truck because only some of the diodes in a particular lamp worked, not all. The customer saved us and the load by giving me a ride to a nearby truck stop where I could buy a replacement light. He then ordered in a forklift with a man basket and had the operator lift me up to the top of the truck in a safe way so I could replace the light.

 

[roadeyes]

I do not know if it's a reg or not but it has been my experience with LED lights and the DOT (not making the distinction as to wether they are auxiliary or not) , that if 50% of the individual diodes are out then the lamp is considered to be burnt out.

So in Greg's situation, if the DOT officer applies the same logic to a two bulb incandescent marker light, then even if one half is burnt out then that is 50% and could be considered burnt out.

Stupid? Yes most definitely, as what the DOT officer should be considering when inspecting the vehicle is the technology available at the time of manufacture, not a blanket across the board interpretation. Wasn't that the point of the two bulb marker? To increase safety through redundancy?
The same as the LED has done on a larger scale.

 

[greg334]

Lamp. A device used to produce artificial light.

If the device is producing light, then it is functional.

The problem is that it isn't even open to opinion, let alone interpretation because it is defined strictly in the definition set at the beginning of the subsection of the code - a device used to produce artificial light.

An interpretation would be allowed if there was some latitude given in the definition like saying; a device used to produce a light at X candle power within a X distance and having a 120 degree viewing area while in ambient daylight but there isn't.

The reason for the simple definition I have been told by the DOT is what is called self-certification on lighting products by the manufacturer that is allowed. They do not want to rewrite the code to include specifics on lighting with regards of commercial vehicles and specific components because of the different technologies used but rather leave a loose definition. NO where does it state what a bulb is, whether it has to be an LED part or a incandescent bulb or a HID light unit or what qualifies as 50% for that matter but it clearly says is that it has to produce an artificial light and nothing else.

With one bulb working, it is producing artificial light and is functional. So you get tagged, there is room to fight it.

By the way, if you are using a light where the LED burns out, then the manufacturer is using inferior components in that unit. There is a requirement that has been published by the SAE for LED components and the units I purchased that were expensive didn't use those but my walmart specials did.

 

[nightcreacher]

Phil,I hope you never cross the Banning Ca scales with one of you 94 chicken lights out,you will then repost your thoughts.

 

[ATeam]

Phil,I hope you never cross the Banning Ca scales with one of you 94 chicken lights out,you will then repost your thoughts.

Diane and I have crossed the imfamous Banning scales many times with our 94 chicken lights, and most recently even with two only partially operational. One light has two of four LEDs working, the other has one of four.

I intend to fix them, of course, but since they are not a required lamp, I am waiting until January when we will be in Florida where the weather will be nice and we will have some time to spare.